2013-2014 N.Z National Motorsport Classes..(Excluding NZV8 & ST please.)

[tacmacnzl]

Originally Posted by promax

http://f5000.co.nz/

Yep , i dont have numbers but id argue the historic festival at Hampton Downs easily outdrew the ST round.


Feel free to correct me if I am wrong of course

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by tacmacnzl

Yep , i dont have numbers but id argue the historic festival at Hampton Downs easily outdrew the ST round.


Feel free to correct me if I am wrong of course

i would also imagine any of the southern classic meetings will clean up any NZT1 or NZST meetings.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Has their crowds behavior improved of late?

unsure, has alcohol been banned at every round??

is there plenty of room for carpark donuts between qualifying and the battles??

[KLR93]

Id agree, and knew someone would say that, but how many rounds do these historic classes / events have? And what sponsorship do they attract?

A 1-2 weekend festival vs 6-7 round national championship

I LOVE watching F5000s but i and many others would hardly see this and other similar classes exploding with popularity with a target demo again. It's 2013, the kids are going to ask will it skid?

Credit to anyone pulling a good crowd in the current situation, and if gate sales continue to float the series financially then what more could you ask for?

But what do these other classes want? Crowd numbers? Sponsors? Or just more track time? Putting a number of classes on show is money for a promoter but is your sport and category actually benefiting?

With the supercars on this weekend its a friendly reminder to what most kiwis are into and save money for...

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

i would also imagine any of the southern classic meetings will clean up any NZT1 or NZST meetings.

now if you brought speedway into the discussion. the clay boys and girls put NZT1, NZST and D1 to shame.. with a hell of a lot less fan fare and media, etc!

[Icarus_nz]

Referring back to the earlier FF discussion I know of a couple of folks who have run up the sharp end over the last two - three seasons who reckon 35 - 40k for 7 rounds is the magic number.
I guess it also depends what and how you count. The bloke who tows the trailer for 3 days to get to Teretonga isn't necessarily free. If he doesn't charge you anything he is in a sense a sponsor. So say 40k is a cash figure I'm guessing there are still 15 - 20k 'other' expenses (beer ain't free)

Bill (and others) have mentioned drifting. From a promoters point of view you're right. They do get a crowd. But is it it the right demographic? Difficult to attract big naming rights sponsors when your crowd has spent it's disposable income on baggy pants, tattoos and traffic fines.

Let me say that that I think the top end of the D1NZ is a really good package. But there isn't really much underpinning it

The other problem that the drift guys have heading into the future is that rear drive cars are going the way of the dodo.

I believe the single biggest challenge circuit racing has is in making itself relevant. How do they capture the primary school kids of today? How do they ensure they aspire to be the competitors of tomorrow?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by promax

now if you brought speedway into the discussion. the clay boys and girls put NZT1, NZST and D1 to shame.. with a hell of a lot less fan fare and media, etc!

i am happy you mentioned Speedway, if i had tried to use their numbers i would have been called an inbreed red-neck hick. besides, i can't comment too much on specatator numbers, but i did struggle to find a spot for qualifying nite at the 'Glen for NZ Stockcar Champs, didn't get there for finals, or for NZ Super Saloons.

[KLR93]

Speedway holds its own though, i dont know why we keep comparing them. Different kettle of fish here.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

I believe the single biggest challenge circuit racing has is in making itself relevant. How do they capture the primary school kids of today? How do they ensure they aspire to be the competitors of tomorrow?

unsure if isolating kids as the real issue. Speedway has grasped the family at many venues, but crcuit racing needs to 'liven up the show' and keep things busy on-track. massive gaps in the schedule makes for grumpy bored spectators whether they are 5 or 55 years old.because racing curcuits allow the comsumption of alcohol (many speedway tracks don't !), when there are gaps, bored drunken spectators often use 'farm-talk' to vent their dissatisfaction........... not a good look in front of young-ins, aye.

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

unsure if isolating kids as the real issue. Speedway has grasped the family at many venues, but crcuit racing needs to 'liven up the show' and keep things busy on-track. massive gaps in the schedule makes for grumpy bored spectators whether they are 5 or 55 years old.because racing curcuits allow the comsumption of alcohol (many speedway tracks don't !), when there are gaps, bored drunken spectators often use 'farm-talk' to vent their dissatisfaction........... not a good look in front of young-ins, aye.

well speedway gives the punters what they want to see.. and the ticket paying public responds. people want to be entertained and they want value from their hard earned money. and yeah.. they do get the "family" thing.

[Swedish Brick]

Originally Posted by KLR93

Speedway holds its own though, i dont know why we keep comparing them. Different kettle of fish here.

Like wise drifting and motor racing.

[KLR93]

^ Wont enter that argument but there are still questions here..

What relevance does any circuit racing have anymore? Manufacturers don't have much input anymore, these single spec classes don't do much for anyone IMO.

Speedway has short sharp entertainment, and a bit of biff and bash and an enclosed stadium atmosphere. With D1NZ we've found the same things but at the same time
good on track battles really get the crowd cheering.

What is the common goal for these classes to be together, do you want paying spectators - why would they watch you and why would the keep coming back?
Is the promoter getting the gate sales or are you reinvesting back into your sport. I think its an important discussion, its easy enough to say class x and x should race together on the same weekend but why?

As a kid particular drivers were my heroes, because they won, had character, drove a brand or car i liked and recognized on the road..

Kenny.

[Icarus_nz]

Now I think this discussion is heading in the right direction. I've suspected for a while that circuit racing doesn't know what it is.
If the organisers/promoters etc don't know what their product is what hope do they have of future proofing if?
The last ten years the sport at all levels has been living a dream - to wit that ours is a highly significant sport and sponsers should be lining up to fuel the dreams of everyone who has every run better than midfield on a club day.

When I talk of capturing children I mean exactly what Kenny is talking of. Meeting real life 'hero's' and getting the thrill of what Motorsport is.
Admit it, the appeal of classics is that of seeing cars of your youth or driving the car you always wanted as a teenager.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Admit it, the appeal of classics is that of seeing cars of your youth or driving the car you always wanted as a teenager.

or still driving the car you can't afford to upgrade due to spiralling fees and costs

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Now I think this discussion is heading in the right direction. I've suspected for a while that circuit racing doesn't know what it is.
If the organisers/promoters etc don't know what their product is what hope do they have of future proofing if?
The last ten years the sport at all levels has been living a dream - to wit that ours is a highly significant sport and sponsers should be lining up to fuel the dreams of everyone who has every run better than midfield on a club day.

hence the reason i wouldn't bother going to T1 meetings, even when i had free passes.

is it motoracing ?.............. sometimes inbetween the tryhard attempt at "hoopla", it is.

is it entertainment ?........... not really, unless someone is prepared to brave the judicery and actually attempt a passing manouvre

SO WHAT WAS/IS IT THEN ??????

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

hence the reason i wouldn't bother going to T1 meetings, even when i had free passes.

is it motoracing ?.............. sometimes inbetween the tryhard attempt at "hoopla", it is.

is it entertainment ?........... not really, unless someone is prepared to brave the judicery and actually attempt a passing manouvre

SO WHAT WAS/IS IT THEN ??????

I've seen plenty of passing in T1 meetings, albeit in the days when there were more than 10 cars on the grids...

[promax]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

SO WHAT WAS/IS IT THEN ??????

sports entertainment?

[HProject]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I've seen plenty of passing in T1 meetings, albeit in the days when there were more than 10 cars on the grids...

I'm happy to pay to watch Kevin Williams and Andrew Anderson dive-bomb eachother and run side-by-side constantly. Are their two drivers with better showmanship in the country?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by HProject

I'm happy to pay to watch Kevin Williams and Andrew Anderson dive-bomb eachother and run side-by-side constantly. Are their two drivers with better showmanship in the country?

was this a by-product of the new Pukekohe layout ??
havn't seen them in the same race for ages

[HProject]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

was this a by-product of the new Pukekohe layout ??
havn't seen them in the same race for ages

They were also dicing at the Manfield round of the NZV8's - more entertaining than the guys up the front haha.

We're grossly off-topic though with all this 8 cylinder discussion.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by HProject

We're grossly off-topic though with all this 8 cylinder discussion.

unsure ?? i think we all want to see a spectacle, and Pukekohe delivered. any c asual veiwer who caught coverage while eaiting for Super Rugby over the weekend may actually think that is what often happens on the track.............. the sport now needs to find a way of continuing this style of racing and making it interesting again

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

unsure ?? i think we all want to see a spectacle, and Pukekohe delivered. any c asual veiwer who caught coverage while eaiting for Super Rugby over the weekend may actually think that is what often happens on the track.............. the sport now needs to find a way of continuing this style of racing and making it interesting again

Not sure what it is about the Supercars (money) but they always pull a great crowd. the trick is figuring out how to get a lot of them back during the season.

[socram]

Not just money - the media. If they back an event or a sport, it does a lot better than when they ignore it - and our media certainly knows how to ignore motorsport for 51 weeks of the year.

I am not so sure that the general public knows where to look to see what is on locally.

I think I had been in NZ for about three years and been through Taupo several times before I even knew there was a race track there!

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Not sure what it is about the Supercars (money) but they always pull a great crowd.

Because it's what my parents used to call a treat; if you're lucky, you get a taste once a year!

Pukekohe has history, a multi-million dollar freshen-up, big names (in our part of the world anyway), a superb sound track, four different looking cars (manufacturers if you prefer, but that's another debate), old dogs defending against hungry young puppies, and for the first time in a long while a fairly level playing field. Throw in great weather, how could it fail?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

If I was asked to promote a meeting at a circuit around the country with my choice of classes excluding NZV8 and Supertourers it would go something like this:
Muscle Cars including some Aussie Masters big names, for the petrol heads
Toyotas for the single seater purists
F5000 for the Classic fraternity
Super Trucks for the dedicated truckies
Top NZ motorcycle class
D1NZ for the young people
Honda Cup or similar if there is room

Something for everyone to bring the punters through the gates

You'll never get the trucks to Pukekohe or HD, why run a series without a big drawcard like the ST's in at least some of the meetings though?

Also D1NZ are their own thing, like the drags, you will not get enough interest from either camp in combining them.