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14 Sep 2006, 23:54 (Ref:1710604)
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#26 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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Quote:
People seem to have forgotten how, as I remember it anyway, Kimi just ran away from JPM on a fairly consistent basis on the same team in equivalent cars. Having watched JPM all through CART and lately F1, he is no slouch behind the wheel, but behind Kimi and I think JPM's quicker than Massa. Massa's just gonna have to prove me wrong next year. Last edited by Last2LiftOff; 14 Sep 2006 at 23:58. |
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15 Sep 2006, 00:14 (Ref:1710607)
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#27 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,402
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I believe that Kimi will give Felipe a complete trouncing..
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15 Sep 2006, 02:20 (Ref:1710650)
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#28 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,387
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I can't see one year in a Ferrari giving Massa an advantage, Kimi will be quick to come to terms with the red machine.
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__________________
"A lot of people go through life doing things badly. Racing’s important to men who do it well. When you’re racing, it... it’s life. Anything that happens before or after... is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
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15 Sep 2006, 03:01 (Ref:1710669)
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#29 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15
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Interesting topic. Kimi had a very good Sauber under him and got the results... Massa's Sauber wasn't a great car but apart from his wilderness and lack of experience, he didn't do a bad job against Heidfeld. I think both are quick... Kimi is not as emotional as Felipe, and therefore less likely to make mistakes. Massa has an incredible raw speed and got a lot better after his year as a Ferrari test driver... Back at Sauber, we all knew he was quicker than Fisichella but he was still making mistakes, but against Jacques he was the superb. BMW would love to have kept him. Massa has more to do with Michael's retirement than a lot of people think.
My opintion for next year? Kimi... but it will be very close. Also keep in mind that Coulthard kept him honest for a couple of races at McLaren is his first season. |
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15 Sep 2006, 06:38 (Ref:1710699)
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#30 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,809
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Hmm...it's the guy who scored points on his debut in a Sauber vs the guy who can't handle Parabolica if there's a car in the same time zone as him.
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__________________
Birmingham City FC. Founded 1875. League Cup Winners 2011.
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15 Sep 2006, 07:57 (Ref:1710741)
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#31 | |||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,897
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Quote:
Steady on old boy!! 
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__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
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15 Sep 2006, 08:20 (Ref:1710770)
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#32 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Apparently there is some aerodynamic device which severely affects downforce of a car which gets anywhere near it. It is only on the Renault of Alonso and has no effect on any car other than the Ferrari.
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15 Sep 2006, 09:37 (Ref:1710831)
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#33 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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I think Kimi will come out on top primarily because he is "steadier" than Massa - at the moment. It may be that Massa is simply maturing at a different rate. To me, he still seemed to make the sort of mistakes that a young driver does: inconsistent mental preparation, dealing with traffic, etc.
On raw speed there is not a huge gap. I do not think that there will be a big gap in points between the two of them either. |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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15 Sep 2006, 11:00 (Ref:1710893)
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#34 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,306
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We haven't had the benefit of seeing Kimi in a car which is both fast and reliable. He has been cursed by appalling luck up until now. I suspect that with a stable and fast car beneathe him he will be awesome. Massa seems to have settled down form his earlier wildness, but as of yet, neither has an unblemished record. I suspect that ferrari will suffer a lot of DNF's next season-more than they have in recent years and it won't be because the car failed.
My two cents: Massa will be close to Kimi at the start of the season and perhaps slightly ahead, by mid-season, Kimi surges ahead and by the end, is the clear leader. Be prepared for a lot of shots of Ferraris with missing wheels. |
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__________________
Go Tribe!!!!
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15 Sep 2006, 11:03 (Ref:1710897)
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#35 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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You can see what will happen just looking at the last results...
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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15 Sep 2006, 11:42 (Ref:1710933)
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#36 | |||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 43,946
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Quote:
We have seen him in a(n almost) reliable car. He came second in the championship and took it down to the wire (although there was one blow-up while in the lead!). In a fast car we have seen him win races. Fast and reliable, sounds ominous. |
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15 Sep 2006, 12:11 (Ref:1710972)
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#37 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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Quote:
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15 Sep 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1710980)
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#38 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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...and the Turkish GP results were ?
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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15 Sep 2006, 12:45 (Ref:1711015)
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#39 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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Quote:
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15 Sep 2006, 13:28 (Ref:1711057)
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#40 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,565
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Kimi is fortunate to be a very quick driver, because I feel that will be his biggest advantage while making the adjustment to a new team with a different way of doing things, particularly things like race preparation (which would have been basically Michael's way). F1 is still a team sport, and chemistry and politics are still important. Kimi's penchant for socializing to the point of memory loss is well documented. Will it be tolerated by the tifosi if "incidents" start to happen?
Any less of a driver would have a bigger adjustment period than Kimi is expected to. This should be interesting, since you can be sure that Felipe has a new mission, and he's proven to be quick enough to race with anyone. |
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15 Sep 2006, 13:49 (Ref:1711076)
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#41 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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That's it, Felipe the man on a mission.
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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15 Sep 2006, 18:08 (Ref:1711272)
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#42 | ||
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Quote:
It is doubtful that Kimi will have any problems like this, but it is something to consider. |
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15 Sep 2006, 22:45 (Ref:1711455)
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#43 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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Sure, of course. But I don't recall ever hearing McLaren complaining, I might've missed it though.
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15 Sep 2006, 22:53 (Ref:1711461)
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#44 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Absolutely no complaints from McLaren at all, he fitted in well there.
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15 Sep 2006, 23:10 (Ref:1711469)
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#45 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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2007 looks like it could be a very good year for F1.
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15 Sep 2006, 23:41 (Ref:1711487)
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#46 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Ron said when Kimi joined the team that he would allow him to wreck a few cars along the way, and he certainly did that. We'll see how things shake out when the inevitable comparisons between K and M begin in earnest. |
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15 Sep 2006, 23:58 (Ref:1711494)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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This is why I give Kimi the advantage. He is more mature on track and the drama at McLaren with JPM and all will help him deal with the media. One thing that does concern me is the "expectations" thing. Fans will now expect Kimi to perform at a certain level and when he doesn't of course they will be generous and understanding - just like everyone here on the boards!
I hope for his sake that Todt and Brawn stay. My other concern for Massa is that he might be more likely to bin it trying to show he is faster than Kimi. |
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__________________
"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton.
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16 Sep 2006, 10:28 (Ref:1711759)
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#48 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,211
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Quote:
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__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
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16 Sep 2006, 12:11 (Ref:1711801)
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#49 | ||
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Race Official 20KPINAL
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 21,606
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Truth is he has been better each race, even when not very effective.
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__________________
Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will
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16 Sep 2006, 12:44 (Ref:1711810)
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#50 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,195
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Quote:
Oh ya, he won it. |
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