Automotive Marketing and Sportscar Racing. Any opinions?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

The first thing a successful series does is market ITSELF.

That may be true in a loose sense, but I think what has made NASCAR so successful is that they get other companies to do the marketing for them. Many/most of NASCAR's sponsors (team and series level sponsors) feature their NASCAR programs in their marketing programs. For example, Kroger, a massive grocery store chain here, puts Daytona 500 logos on their products around the time of the race. You can probably buy TP and tampons with Daytona 500 logos on them. I don't know if they still do this, but Coca-Cola puts the drivers they sponsor on their vending machines across the country. Target ad fliers usually feature their NASCAR car in it somewhere. Countless companies put their drivers and cars in their national TV ad campaigns. I remember back in the pre-Internet days, McDonald's would print the NASCAR and NHRA schedules with starting times and the TV network on the back of their bags. I would find that to be very useful as back then racing usually did not air on the same networks on a consistent basis and the starting times would vary. I would usually cut out that part of the bag and use it throughout the year. Heck, I even found a NASCAR die-cast car packed in a box of laundry detergent a few years ago.

It seems like other series have not been so successful in getting other companies to do their advertising for them. It makes sense because most companies that sponsor stuff like Indycar and ALMS probably don't break their marketing budget in order to do so. Thus, there is little incentive to maximize the value of the sponsorship. CART perhaps could have done this back in the day, but they were clearly not as successful as NASCAR in that regard. It probably did not help that some of their biggest team sponsors were tobacco companies, but even then Marlboro may have been the best company at using racing as part of their marketing programs. Go figure. I did see an IRL schedule glued to the top of a can of Clabber Girl baking powder, but I'm not going to give the IRL much credit for that as the Hulman-George family owns Clabber Girl! I'm not really sure if the Clabber Girl demographic is really the ideal IRL demographic, but whatever. At least Tony George's baking powder market share is still pretty good. They always said TG was good with white powder. Well, that's a whole different story!

Have a look at the sponsor list in those series. Very little by way of automotive, a lot of high end services etc in F1 ranging down to fast food and soft drink in F1 and the other series. Brand reinforcement stuff for bulk consumer goods.

I still go back to my thought that it is the group influence people you are after, and you want them to talk up your brand. Most of us only but a car every 3 or 4 years, but we can talk a lot of other people into looking at a particular brand in between hunting round the dealers ourselves.

It is interesting to look at who is sponsoring racing now and who was sponsoring racing 20-30 years ago. It seems like tobacco, beer, and automotive products made up the bulk of racing sponsorship back in the day. Now, not so much. By automotive products, I don't just mean the manufacturers, but also motor oil companies, tire makers, gas stations, waxes, brake pad makers, filter companies, automotive tool makers, and stuff like that. Companies like that sponsored all types of racing back in the day. Not so much now. Ok, they are still in NASCAR, but everyone is in NASCAR. The ALMS and other sports car series probably do better than most in this regard, but it could be a lot better. They are still in the NHRA it seems, but that's about it as far as professional American racing. They still have some presence in the international racing series I sometimes follow, but perhaps in a more muted state. I can't really speak for Australian national racing.

To that point, I wonder if racing really speaks to the "car guys" as much as it did back in the day. I really don't think it does. Most of the "car guys" have found other things to do than watch professional racing. It might be watching or participating in amateur racing (where car product sponsors are still very active), going to car shows, playing video games, or just posing/reading any number of car-related blogs and forums. Even the crappiest cars on the road have their own online communities now. To your point, stuff like oil sponsors not only speak to the DIYer or the people who tell their mechanic what oil to use, but it also speaks to the mechanics and shop owners. They probably get asked to recommend products. There aren't huge differences between Valvoline White Bottle 5W-20 and Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5W-20, but perhaps racing can/could have made a marketing push towards recommending a product even if it's all BS. Those types of sponsors seem to have given up on sponsoring a lot of series that they used to sponsor in the past. That probably says something. I think the marketing perspectives of those companies may be more indicative of the situation rather than car manufacturers because car manufacturers sponsor anything where there is a large crowd (stick-and-ball sports, soap operas, concerts, etc.) whereas it seems that parts companies speak more closely to their targeted demographics.

[old man]

Mr Davies original question was if sportscar racing was important to manufacturers and we have developed the idea to general sales promotion and advertising within the marketing mix. A manufacturer may look at the development required for success in a particular series as way of proving technical ideas against similar ideas from competitors. The rivalry between Audi and Peugeot is an example of two large groups measuring their expertise in diesel technology against each other. The R & D required is then available in the marketing plans for the whole range and the value of success is used in the advertising and sales promotion campaigns for brand image.
This works fine for series where there is brand competition but what about one make series? These offer close and often exciting racing but do not prove any single technology except for perhaps reliability. The VW Scirocco series ran an engine on gas that you can't buy from them so far as I know but had some excellent racing on the DTM package, the Renault World Series events are run with big crowds because Renault pay the costs and give the tickets away but in these meetings Renault always win.
So what are these series offering in the sales promotion budget? Are they saying "look how sporty our cars are" or "look at how hard you can thrash our cars and they don't break". The lack of inter marque competition has always made me wonder why one make series are so popular with some manufacturers? Remember when Renault first announced the Renault 5 series, how we larfed!
What did it prove, it must have done something because they have kept it going ever since, one way or another.

[Oldtony]

I think you have nailed it Old Man regarding Audi and Pug with diesel technology.
Looking at the future of LMP it would seem that the next phase will be in developing Hybrid/KERS/waste energy reuse systems, hopefully with the involvement of Toyota, Nissan and Honda. Perhaps Porsche will be involved to develop/showcase another form of technology for VAG.
That is taking sports car racing back to it's fundamental reason for being created. Basicaly product development, but great marketing if you are competitive.
Not quite sure I agree with you over one make series. They are in fact a great marketing excersise in creating brand image and loyalty for actually selling production cars for exactly the reasons you say. They also tend to promote dealer involvement and development.
If I were doing the marketing program for TATA or Cherry or Great Wall Motors in China, India or developing Aisian economies I think it would be a great way of developing both brand name recognition and the group influence people we have been taliking about.
And some people still race 2cVs they tell me
Probably a more direct competition results/marketing link is in GT which is an influential niche area. There are specialist GT/luxury manufacturers, Aston, Ferrari, Jaguar, Porsche etc. and there are those producing GT as hero cars for their brands Nissan, Audi, Mercedes etc. In both cases racing can be justified, and used in marketing, as demonstrating advanced technology and performance. That race participation needs to be linked to other advertising, dealer participation links and Film and TV product placement etc.
It is all about image. THe James Bond Astons are of course well known, but I think one of the better results in that field was the indestructable Top Gear Hilux. No discerning Aussie Tradie would want to driva anything else

[AGD]

As far as the hybrids go, I think it is a fairly good marketing use of racing. The diesels could be lumped together in there too. Diesels have had success in racing before (the 1952 Indy 500 polesitter was diesel powered), but their general reputation was not that of performance. The R10 and later cars did help show that performance and diesel can be related. Audi probably did not expect that they would get their butts whipped on a pretty consistent basis by a Peugeot diesel, but that is a whole different story.

As for hybrids, their reputation is pretty much the same. Hybrids are synonymous with economy cars, but that does not have to be the case. We'll see that now with racing. It can also show that one company's hybrid technology is superior to others, but we'll have to see about that. It's not even guaranteed that the racing hybrid technology one company uses is remotely similar to what they use in road cars. Of course, marketing has never been about truth, has it?

As for the technology transfer, I think that is somewhat overrated especially with stuff like P1s. It's good marketing speak, but I really don't think it has that much place in reality. A lot of those so-called "racing innovations" were designed in road car labs years before. I remember when people called the 1994 Penske-Ilmor Mercedes 209 push-rod engine "innovative." In a way, yes. Push rod engines innovative though? In 1994? Not so much. It was a just badged engine anyway!

As for single-make stuff, I don't know. It probably is beneficial on the amateur stage. There are a lot of Miatas on the public roads with racing stickers on them and rollbars. Those cars specifically may or may not compete in one-make racing, I don't know, but it does promote that the Miata is a performance car and not just a "chic" car as it was known during it's early days. And, of course, that's racing promotion that Mazda did not have to pay for.

Actually, speaking of Mazda, it's interesting how they converted their image from "bland Japanese car" to "Zoom Zoom" almost overnight. They did that with few professional racing programs (perhaps with the then 10 year old legacy of the 787b) when their "boring" Japanese competitors were involved in professional racing to a large extent. Amateur racing probably had some small part in that. Of course, it helps that Mazda has real cars that are more sporty than their Japanese competition and the motoring media has definitely acknowledged that. I think that's what sways car guys more than anything else. No F1, NASCAR, and LMP1s is going to prove to a car guy that a Corolla (the American version at least) is more fun to drive than a Mazda 3. It's the motoring media (which has boomed in the Internet age) and the test drives themselves that prove that.

[Oldtony]

Your comment on the Mazda 3 is interesting. (Never heard of a Miata here but I assume it is a Mazda 3 model) The small Mazdas are accepted as rather boring "chic" cars, or fleet cars here with virtualy no perfomance image.
Mazda in general though has always had a performance image off the back of the very successful racing compaign of the RX7 back in the 70/80s
Riding off successful one make series the Suzuki Swift and the BMW Mini are the ones with the sporting image in small cars.
Meanwhile the various Corollas are the top selling car, followed by Hi Lux, Mazda 3, Holden Commodore and the rest.
I guess the Commodore has some sporting image but include mostly fleet sales, and the rest probably go to prove that a sporting image doesn't transfer to mass sales.
By the way the Mazda LMP program was a classic technology development marketing campaign for the rotary engine concept.
I think you underestimate the way racing can speed up development of a technology developed for road cars. It has the ability to motivate and concentrate development of reliabilty under stresses that will never be experienced in road use while trmming wieght and bulk to enhance performance. It is probably the best way to prove and improve a concept.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Your comment on the Mazda 3 is interesting. (Never heard of a Miata here but I assume it is a Mazda 3 model) The small Mazdas are accepted as rather boring "chic" cars, or fleet cars here with virtualy no perfomance image.
Mazda in general though has always had a performance image off the back of the very successful racing compaign of the RX7 back in the 70/80s

I guess what is known as the Miata here is probably known as the MX-5 in Australia. When it was first introduced in the late 80's, it had a reputation for being a young girl's type car ala the similar looking Mercury Capri (which was built in Australia I believe, I'm not sure if they sold it there and it probably had a different name if it did). There may have been a Barbie Miata and stuff like that, I don't remember. However, it turned out to be a great (and cheap) car for amateur racing and it has a lot of popularity in that regard. It has changed the reputation of the car.

As for Mazda as a whole, that's a bit surprising that their reputation there isn't what it is here. They certainly had a reputation of being boring cars in the early to mid 90's here, but they changed some of their models and embarked on a new television "Zoom Zoom" marketing campaign. Maybe the models they sell there aren't the same as the models they sell here. Maybe they are the same, but the standard for what is and isn't an exciting car are different. For example, take a look at the Mazda 3 review from Edmunds (one of the most popular auto magazine/websites):

The 2012 Mazda 3 has refined road manners that will likely surprise most economy car shoppers. Communicative steering and performance-oriented chassis tuning make it one of the most enjoyable small cars to drive on twisty roads. On a daily basis, the 3's highway ride is smooth enough for most commuters, although drivers who prefer softly sprung compacts like the Toyota Corolla might think the 3 rides too firmly.

In terms of engines, the upgraded 2.0-liter engine found in the 3i Touring and 3i Grand Touring models is the best bet. Its 155-hp output slots in between the other two engines, but blows them both away in fuel economy. Still, the Mazda 3 has always appealed to more enthusiastic drivers, and for them, the 3s and its more robust 2.5-liter is likely to still appeal.

And that is the regular Mazda 3 model, not the sporty Mazdaspeed3 model. The RX-7 (and the Datsun 280ZX) did excite many back in the day, but that aura kind of subsided when Mazda and Nissan started to become better known for boring rather than exciting. Both have started to turn things around with more exciting models (the Nissan US lineup is more of a mixed bag of exciting, boring, and flat-out ugly), but Honda and especially Toyota's reputation is still that of "boring" even with their much more extensive racing programs. Something like the Civic Si might be an exception, but even then it might be grassroots racing that helps that reputation.

I guess the Commodore has some sporting image but include mostly fleet sales, and the rest probably go to prove that a sporting image doesn't transfer to mass sales.

Like I said elsewhere, almost all the models that were raced in NASCAR 5-20 years ago have since been canceled. The Ford Thunderbird, Chevrolet Lumina and Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix, Dodge Intrepid, and so forth were the models the big 3 raced in NASCAR, but all have been canceled. Even the Taurus was dropped completely for a few years before coming back in a somewhat different form. So even the massive popularity of NASCAR could not help sell Monte Carlos and Thunderbirds. Sometimes the product has to hold up it's end of the bargain and many of those models were considered to be pure rubbish. Perhaps the American buyer is more pragmatic in distinguishing what is peddled on the track and what is peddled in the showroom.

Of course, the whole mid-sized sedan styled coupe type of car NASCAR raced for many years has become virtually extinct by the Big 3. Actually, scratch virtually. They are extinct. NASCAR certainly did not help sell that type of car all that much it would seem.

By the way the Mazda LMP program was a classic technology development marketing campaign for the rotary engine concept.
I think you underestimate the way racing can speed up development of a technology developed for road cars. It has the ability to motivate and concentrate development of under stresses that will never be experienced in road use while trmming wieght and bulk to enhance performance. It is probably the best way to prove and improve a concept.

Mazda had a certain ethos and stuck with it. The 787B certainly is a modern aberration in that it is a 20 year old car that still gives it's maker a lot of positive attention to this day. I think it also helps prove why racing isn't relevant to road cars. The reason why the 787B won (and it's totally misunderstood by the public) is that it received massive charity rules prior to the race. That was the year of the 3.5L engines and the old cars had to run bricks in them. I guess the FIA thought the Mazda had no chance so they went easy on it and gave it different rules. History may have indicated that such a move may have been justified, but that massive weight break may have helped it with speed, reliability, and consumption as compared to it's very overweight competition of Sauber and Jaguar. In the real world, Mercedes isn't going to give Mazda any sort of breaks just because they feel sorry for them. But, hey, if you can fool people, more power to you I guess. That's what marketing is all about, right?

There may be some intentional and purposeful engineering crossover between racing divisions and street divisions, but I think that link in the modern day is vastly overrated. A lot of the racing parts (particuarly with American racing, but even elsewhere) are outsourced. Mazda's current LMP (as well as other historical Mazda LMPs) may be the greatest example of that. It's been seen elsewhere in F1, Indycar, and sports cars. Even otherwise, I've heard people in racing say that the two divisions are quite divided in what they are trying to do. Certain companies may embrace certain racing technologies and the atmosphere of competition, but it's probably done only in the most obvious areas at this point. Most big car companies probably have massive R&D programs for their street cars that are probably years ahead of the current models as it is. What is considered and chosen to be "fit for road use" is probably determined by what the bean counters think is appropriate on the basis of economics. Someone like Ferrari or something like Corvette might be a little more obvious, but there is more of a need there and the expectations and money of the consumers involved are different.

[Oldtony]

Sorry!
The Miata bit fooled me.
Mazda claim MX5 is not a Lotus Elan copy, but they certainly got close, and with greater durability, fit and finish.
In my opinion the MX5 is the only genuine low cost sports car being quantity built these days. Reminds me very much of the market niche filled by the T series MGs of my youth and the later AH Bug eyed Sprites etc.
Here MX5 is the centre of the club cult and is raced in just about every sort of club event you could imagine. And it has achieved very good sales success on just that basis, with virtually zero advertising and marketing by Mazda. In fact you don't often even see them on the floor at a Mazda dealership. The people who want one know what they want and just go in and order.
Great product and fun to drive.
No doubt the 3 series is a nice little car to drive. Just saying it doesn't have thar image. Suzuki for a lot of years supported a race program for the Swift, and ran a one make series. Offered performance models with wacking great race stripes etc. They are the ones that captured the "boy racer" image in the small hatch segment. It did sell cars and establish a market image.
This is getting a bit far away from the big international sports car racing scene, but it does indicate that promoting and supporting a grass routes racing program can create sales if you have the right product.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Sorry!
The Miata bit fooled me.
Mazda claim MX5 is not a Lotus Elan copy, but they certainly got close, and with greater durability, fit and finish.
In my opinion the MX5 is the only genuine low cost sports car being quantity built these days. Reminds me very much of the market niche filled by the T series MGs of my youth and the later AH Bug eyed Sprites etc.
Here MX5 is the centre of the club cult and is raced in just about every sort of club event you could imagine. And it has achieved very good sales success on just that basis, with virtually zero advertising and marketing by Mazda. In fact you don't often even see them on the floor at a Mazda dealership. The people who want one know what they want and just go in and order.
Great product and fun to drive.

I think the situation there is similar to the US.

This is getting a bit far away from the big international sports car racing scene, but it does indicate that promoting and supporting a grass routes racing program can create sales if you have the right product.

I think the key is for companies to provide sporty models. If they build it right, the enthusiasts will follow. On a related side note, I've been thinking about "retiring" as a fan of professional racing. The ridiculous series politics and the love of spec and BoP racing in the professional leagues has pretty much turned racing from entertainment to sorrow for me. Maybe there is racing on the amateur side that is more entertaining. Not the one-make stuff, but maybe something like SCCA ASR/CSR/DSR. Hell, I don't even know if those classes still exist. They may be extinct now too. It's been a while since I've looked. Off topic, but I wonder if there are any similar (not necessarily in exact details, but in spirit) amateur series nationally or internationally that I should know about. If so, I'm more than willing to hear details. I know there was an American VdeV Series (not by that name, but essentially that was the case), but I guess it went out of business because I can't find any new information about it. I know amateur racing politics can be just as bad (or worse!) than professional series politics, but the professional series have become so bad that I'm considering taking that risk! I'm still a racing fan, but I'm not a fan of what the major racing series are dishing out.

[Oldtony]

Tend to agree about the major series.
Why is it that the harder series promoters try to make the events entertaining, the less interesting they become to old farts like us?
The V8SC organiser relize this and have now introduced a "Touring Car Master" series as a main support act.
But then it is I suppose a factor in getting on a bit that the past is viewed through rose tinted specs.
Other than some casual watching on TV I now get my spectator kick out of Historic racing, with an occaisional trip to see the local events on the Shannon series rounds. (Series Prod, Improved Prod, Sports Sedans, F3, Porsche Cup, Commodore Cup, Holden HQ etc.)
Shannons Insurance is a classic case of using the sport to grow and establish a market. Started as a brokerage locating insurance for vintage, historic and odd ball cars. Found there was a similar demand for performance cars. Got involved by having a presence at every car bun fight, and went on to sponsor a few club events. Developed a reputation that meant any time you asked a car buff who to insure your motor with, you got one answer, Shannons. Were bought out for big money by IAG but have maintained and grown that image in sponsorship and linking the "Enthusiast" image to their TV advertising.

OK, a challenge!
If you were marketing supremo at, say, TATA would you look at a competition budget, and how would you spend it?
Yes I would have a competion budget and use it in the following ways.

1: TATA cars: Throw some money and incentives in developing a TATA one make series for a modified version of one of the mid range TATA models in India. (used to be Sierra{not Ford} but not sur of the model now) Encourage dealers to develop talents in their service and repair departments and local driving talent. Try to push series nation wide over 3-4 years.

2: JLR: Stick with GT, GT3 and GTE and develop race versions of existing models. Best done in association with a proper race development and preperation group probably based in the UK. Run GT3 National series in Europe and US, and the International GTE series.
As an aside there has been some joint work I understand between Williams Hybrid Technology and Jaguar developing that concept. Maybe that is a future reason for looking at LMP with Patrick Head aboard, but that is not an immediate goal.

3: TATA Commercial: Move some of the Range Rover technology accross to one of the more bread and butter range light commercial or SUV model to build a Rally Raid special for that competition. That is an area that coud influence more sales in developing economys than any spending on bitumen circuit racing and is probably more of a "coming thing" than WRC. Maybe they coul also badge the with some of the names they have in the stable that would re-act in non-Indian markets. Hispano?

How about a competition plan for a manufacturer of your choice?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Why is it that the harder series promoters try to make the events entertaining, the less interesting they become to old farts like us?

That's the question I've been asking for a while now. Well, I don't think I'm old, but I certainly remember the days before racing took on the "Made for TV" paradigm shift. I think that the organizers view the cars as being the enemies now. Everyone wants a 6 hour or 500 mile door-to-door 3 pass a lap showdown. The problem is that some cars are better than others and that makes "the ultimate showdown" difficult to stage. The result is that the organizers try to eliminate the car as a factor in what dictates the race. Some series try to take away the team, tire, and other differences.

IMO, that is shameful. I realize that the races themselves were often "boring" back in the day with the winners almost predetermined if they didn't break (always a big if back in the day) with the winner sometimes winning by multiple laps in some cases, but it is the leadup to the race that was just as exciting as the races themselves. Reading what new technologies and changes teams were doing and so forth. The race itself was the showcase of all the hardwork that everyone put in during the quiet nights back at the shop and so forth. Close finishes may have been more rare, but they were more exciting and meant something. I guess that's the difference. It's hard for me to say that today's contrived racing actually means anything.

OK, a challenge!

If you were marketing supremo at, say, TATA would you look at a competition budget, and how would you spend it?

I'd probably pick #3. Off-road type driving and cars seemed quite popular in India during my travels there. It might be the only way for Indians to escape the absolutely clogging traffic of the city and enjoy pushing a vehicle to their limits. Even then I'm not sure if I'd recommend doing that given that I survived two off-road SUV incidents in India! Given what I saw on the streets of Bombay, only two accidents in a car in a month or so might be below average compared to what happens on the streets.

What I might do (aside from your options) is to build a private performance center where TATA owners can take their car to drive it on a quiet and open road so that they can stretch the legs of the car and sharpen their driving skills. Of course, they have to build cars worth enjoying (not counting stuff like Jaguars) in order for that to make sense.

[Tim the Grey]

I'd also try to get 2 Bangs for my Buck, in whichever series, by sponsoring the works cars by Tetley Tea. Which just happens to be another TATA brand...
But I would go with a GT3 or Blancpain campaign, to get the toes damp, leading up to a run in GT-E at LM. Hopefully, you can win a title in GT3, giving some momentum in the switch to GT-E.
It could be tempting to run a One Make series alongside GT3 or whatever, to guarantee a Jag win!

Land Rover have several Off Road Driving centres, worldwide, where owners can find out exactly what these vehicles CAN do...

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Hopefully, you can win a title in GT3, giving some momentum in the switch to GT-E.

Well, Jaguar is in GTE. Kind of. It did compete at Le Mans in 2010. Kind of. Anyway, the Jaguar official said something along the lines that they don't like the XK is in the same class as the 458 and such and so it would not make sense to compete. I guess he's unfamiliar with the GT rulebooks! His assumptions are all too logical. They do have some new models coming out so we'll see.

It could be tempting to run a One Make series alongside GT3 or whatever, to guarantee a Jag win!

We did have a pretty high profile one-make Jaguar championship in the US some years back. Anyone remember Fastmasters? It was a one-make XJ220 series where old retired driving champs from Indycars, NASCAR, NHRA, sports cars, and so forth would compete. I think it was set up by ESPN and run similar to the Thursday Night Thunder sprint car races. It attracted some pretty big name drivers, but the series was a pretty big flop. It did not last very long even with all the high-profile attention. Maybe it would have been successful elsewhere, but I don't know. There are some old videos of the races available. It's fun if you want to see some XJ220s get torn up.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

How about a competition plan for a manufacturer of your choice?

My choice is BYD in China. Simple, one-make racing electric car series in China, Europe and USA. Plus a Le Mans LM P1 electric car. I need to prove to the public that my car can last a long distance, even though I have yet to find out how to do that without putting it on charge for 8 hours between stints.

[Tim the Grey]

Swap out battery packs. Top teams would have that done in less time than a diesel refuel!

[old man]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Swap out battery packs. Top teams would have that done in less time than a diesel refuel!

Yes Tim, I have thought about battery changing at a pit stop. The battery pack almost irrespective of size is accessible from the side of the car and held in place by hydraulic connections. On stopping the jacks are operated, a trolley goes under, hydraulics release the dead battery, wheel out. New battery already on a trolley wheeled in and system clamps it in place, done faster than I can type this I would imagine!!

For road use we would have recharging stations with stocks of charged batteries, swap them over like changing horses in the old coaching days!