Petition for a Unified Series

[Jay]

Try seventh-gear, they may not know what they're talking about, but at least there seem to be more real Cart fans there (of late at least) than here.

I just Signed it too.Gee, i really hope this makes it to Mario Andretti.

[x_dt]

The difficulty is in convincing the hardliners on both sides (the more hardline fans as well as the CART/IRL authorities) to support a merger. Something needs to be worked out that allows both sides to save face.

[DNQ]

Thanks for the comments. Yes Jay, I will post on 7th Gear sometime. The chances of making this work are next to nil. But there's no harm in trying...

[norman-normal]

You want CART to be like it was???
Nasty Chip, the truck renter kissing Tony George to get fovorable attention??
Better drivers? really? Bruno was supposed to run away with it this year, but the new ones are out classing him.

The IRL is losing many million$. We don't know how many because its a private Co, but if your not selling tickets then you have to buy permoters, Tv contracts are dropped; its not easy to convince an intelligent viewer that thier seeing exciting stuff if the seats are empty.
The IRL really hurt its self by bringing in Toyota and Honda; of course there are exceptions, but the majority of the IRL fans are buy American, good ole'boys who don't like seeing forigen'rs winning with forigen engines.

NASCAR,not cart, is the IRLs compition now.
CART has the product. CART has the knolegeable Fans, whos advice is often requested by aquintantces.
Its not going to happen next monday, but Cart is growing stronger while the IRL is growing weaker.

NO I'm not signing.

[Dov]

What makes you think that CART is growing stronger Norman? The poor TV ratings? The fact that CART is losing money quicker then an addicted gambler? All those sponsors (sarcasm)? The teams and drivers who keep on leaving CART? The drivers that have been brought in this year to fill the grid, only because they brought money with them and not because of their driving skills?

P.S. (1)I no things are not rosey in the IRL either.
(2)If CART/IRL merge, then we will have the best of both
worlds...sponsors (money), tracks and drivers.
(3)This new united series would have to be run by
ex-drivers...Mario,Foyt,Gurney,Mears and Emmo...not CP or TG.
(4)I think your sorely mistaken my friend if you believe OW
racing in North America will survive if CART and the IRL
continue to go their seperate ways.
(5)Last time I looked, Bruno was tied with PT for the
lead of the championship. The only new driver who is out
classing Bruno is S. Bourdais and at least Sebastien has made
it to CART based on merit. Not like the pay hacks.

[Lee Janotta]

Oh, yes norman, they're hurting themselves by bringing in Toyota and Honda. But CART won't get hurt with an expensive, totally new V-10 engine formula. Mercedes and VW-Audi will play perfectly nice, won't they?

You point to what CART looked like post-split. I point to what it looked like in 1985-1995, the greatest decade of Indycar racing. When it kept Bernie Eccelstone awake at night!

You confuse Tony George's arrogance and self-interest with the valid issues voiced by our open-wheel cousins.

And yes, only Bourdais, and at St. Pete, Haberfeld, are making any real trouble for Bruno and PT.

CART is the one losing millions. The IRL doesn't have millions to lose, it only survives because of Tony George's funneling of IMS money into the series. If we can come together and create something new, neither TG's greed or CART's incompetence can control the direction of the sport. A year and a few restraint-of-trade lawsuits, and we'll have Indy back for all of us. We'll have a vibrant series which provides better value for all involved, with exciting drivers and brightly-colored, well-sponsored cars. And we'll have management with no interest in manipulating the sport for their own gain!

Bernie is the enemy. NASCAR is the enemy. Tony George, and perhaps even Gerry Forsythe, are the enemies.

Aside from few lying backstabbing traitors (Penske, Ganassi, Michael A.), the people competing in and supporting the IRL are our greatest allies. And the sooner we all realize it, and get North American open-wheel racing back on track, the better. Because we don't have much time left.

[norman-normal]

Pavlova, the ballerina, suggested to George Bernard Shaw that they should have a child togeather because, she reasoned,an ofspring with his brains and her body would be a superior person. GB Shaw replied "that would be wonderfull. But what if the child had my body and your brains.

DOV your dreaming.

You want to know why I think cart is growing stronger?? Where you last year? how about two mo' ago?

If Pook kept the money in the bank, todays race would not have happend.
Money is a tool of business if you don't use it, it has no value.

The IRL sold ABC but it should be clear by now that ABC knows very little about racing. They got sucked in because they wanted the Indy 500 and had to take a pakage deal. the rest of the package is clearly an embarasment; but they are a major network and they will have higher ratings than speed ch.
By vertue of the last two week-ends we will at last have comparable ABC V CBS ratings whitch will have meaning.
Last but not least money talks but gets laryngitis when people arn't buying tickets, CART fans arn't just sofa-n-sixpack kinda guys.

[Fish_Flake]

The governing powers should be held by enthusiasts, not businessmen. Tony George is a businessman. Chris Pook is a businessman. Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley were once enthusists, but have turned into businessmen ever since they took over from Jean-Marie Balestre about a decade ago, about the time that F1 started to become stale. Andrew Craig? Joe Heitzler? Both businessmen, and bad ones at that.

[25yearsatrdam]

I will sign it, but TG Has GOT TO GO!

Can anybody divebomb his house? j/k but he needs to be ousted at the speedway. any unified series HAS to have better management than either series has had. All due respect to Pook, he has done miracles - but Craig and Heitz were useless and basically detremental to the series.

[norman-normal]

The alturnitive to business men run it occures every friday and saturday nite, its called street racing. The only time your going to see them on TV is the nightly news
By the way, I understand that Tony George raced sprint cars and Chris Pook was very much car and race car, F1 enthusists.

[Fish_Flake]

When I said "businessmen" and "enthusiasts," I meant that a businessman is concerned mainly with money, and an enthusiast makes decisions for the good of the sport.

I'm not too worried. If CART folds, a breakaway from the IRL is inevitable from one of the contingents of owners fed up with George.

[norman-normal]

The Idea Im trying to git across here is: Pook arrived in Long Beach some 40yrs ago, with not much more than the close on his back. He worked for a Travel Agcy for very low pay.
Long beach at that time was one of the most run down areas in LA County. It took Chris a few years to do it, but he convinced enough important people in long beach that a F1 race,like Monaco, would revitalize L.B. and bring in lots and lots of tourist money. I was racing SCCA and Cal Club at that time and I thought he was just another English nut,
I mean hes over here, no money doesn't know any one and hes going to convince the city fathers to spend millions in tax payer money to put on a F1 race and then convince F1 to come to THIS PLACE to put on a race?

He did it, he is a visionary, a man on a mission, a man with a dream and a pretty good doer of things.
No way would a "business man" enter in to such a project. One thing Chris Pook has never gotten in too much praise.
Hes got a lot of detractors in this forum, how many of them could do 0.01% of what he has done...Take stock before you Knock.

[Dov]

http://www.indystar.com/print/articl...-8247-045.html

[Dov]

I have a great deal of respect for what CP has done, but I don't think the man can walk on water.

[Liz]

Well, after I watched Formula One Classics last night, I am all ready to have a petition to go back to 1993 Formula One when men were men and cars were cars and we had a chance of seeing a different podium now and then, and fans could meet drivers.

Think that's gonna happen? Not likely.

Lee, you can't go back to 1985 and re-make a world that is long gone and far changed. I wish we could, but people and life are all different now.

And as far as "American" drivers go, in the Speed News story about the IRL 500 yesterday the only "American" I saw was Mikey. Every other person who spoke in that piece was from some other country. How is that different from what we have in CART?

Finally, as far as competition for PT and Bruno goes, did you notice anybody named Dominguez out there at all? The man you were all calling a Loser two months ago and demanding that he be fired and Memo Gidley (who incidentally can't get a seat at the desperately under-drivered IRL 500) be given his drive? It took Nige seven years to become an F1 champion. Today he would have been given seven races and then you lot would have been howling Loser Loser Loser and asking to have him kicked out of F1.

[DNQ]

Originally posted by Liz
Finally, as far as competition for PT and Bruno goes, did you notice anybody named Dominguez out there at all? The man you were all calling a Loser two months ago and demanding that he be fired and Memo Gidley

Sorry to hijack my own thread, but I agree, Dominguez is proof we need to wait a while before we slam the rookies. Sure, Lavin and Yoong will never be Andretti, but many said last year that Dominguez was wasting his time. He was basically the winner y'day (well for those who believe Bourdais deserved a penalty), and it's not because all the drivers ahead of him left the series. Mario is BEATING drivers who flogged him last year. I expect that the rookies will only get better as the season progresses. Out of all the rookies this year, I would be surprised if less than half of them win races one day.

Anyway...continue talking about unification

[Matthopps]

How many signatures has it got now? I signed a couple of days ago and was the tenth person to do so.

[Jay]

Excellent points Liz!

[gttouring]

#71! and i must say-Great Idea let's hope we get notice.

[Lee Janotta]

Norman, even someone who's been right numerous times and very successful can still be dead wrong on certain things. And Pook is leading this series in a direction I'm convinced it shouldn't go.

Of course, racing needs to have a business element.... But lately we've been fed business with a racing element, and a rather small one at that. What the hell are we as racing fans doing pour over stock performance reports? Most weeks, we spend more time talking about management changes than great moves drivers made during the last race.

Liz... I've got to try, because the alternative just bites. F1 lite and NASCAR _everywhere_. No thank you. So I've got to try.

After all, CART keeps trying to cling to that 1985 identity... Only for marketing purposes, of course.

[norman-normal]

Lee people do make mistakes, but you will make fewer of them if you go with a proven winner.

Dov, congratulations! you passed the Bob test.

[Dov]

Liz...I can't understand your way of thinking. WE ALL know that CART can't literally return to the period 1985-1995, but for us (the fans) to sit on are hands and watch OW racing in North America go down, seems unacceptable. Do you Liz, Norman and Jay feel that CP has the resources to keep CART's head above water? I'm not so sure that he does. I feel that CP has done a great job in keeping CART alive up till now, but I think he is moving the series away from it's North American roots. I feel that CP has lost touch with American OW racing fans. If Bernie takes over CART, I'm afraid what might happen to the series. If CART and the IRL remain divided, then only NASCAR will benefit from it. In my view, the only alternative is for CART and the IRL to unite through compromise and through the help of ex drivers....Mario, Mears, Foyt, etc..

[Jay]

Chris Pook isn't trying to keep Cart's head above the water, he's trying to grow and promote the series. And this involves a lot of spending money. Just about any major venture does.

If you the fans want open-wheel racing to be successful, then the best thing you can do is write letters to those that have the power. Not just Pook and George (I wonder when the last time George read a letter from a fan was), but the sponsors, broadcasters and media that cover the events. Be critical of those that put down the series and congratulate those that support it. Because the reality is, that the only unified series we're going to see is with one of them gone.

[Dov]

Norman...I don't think it's wise for you to judge me (or others) in this forum, when you don't no anything about me. I have been a serious IndyCar (CART) fan for many years. My opinion is just as valid as yours!