Posts removed

[Ralf's Girl]

Of course insults are wrong for everyone.

Unfortunately, while it's insulting to call someone unintelligent, it's also insulting (not to mention sick) to want someone to crash in a GP, and it's insulting to be prejudiced against gay people.

[SL]

Just for the record, I have spoken to a few work freinds who are gay ( a fact of life in the Airline industry) they have assured me that Ralf does not bat for the other side, there are no gay signs, no any rumours about him. This I take as true becuase word does travel very fast in their world.

By the way, they did have a giggle at the tag of "Buttplug", as it seems to be a term of endearment among the gay community.

SL

[Ralf's Girl]

Well just today I spoke to a girl on the Ralf Schumacher Forum who's father works at Indianapolis. She's met Ralf and his girlfriend. So I believe that's an end to Buttplug's load of rubbish...

[SL]

Well said Ralps' Missus, sorry girl

How big is Ralf's poster in your bedroom ??

If only he knew you are waving his flag........I'm sure that the current G/F would find the phone engaged and a dear ?? letter in the mail. Shortly after his head would be on your pillow and he would then ..........................

Dream on


SL

[gp19]

buttplug must have a ball right now just looking at all the attention we are giving him. I hope you like it buttplug

[downforce]

Whoa! and to think that i thought this thread was about the "grid posts" being removed...hehehe..chuckle.
Hakka's car needed a Buttplug today if u ask me, with all that fire spittin

[Ace]

Liz posted:

Jacques will crash. But he will run a storming race until he does.

I don’t see why this is more acceptable than ButtPlug saying TGF will hit the wall. None of the moderators was quick to erase it. Hypocrisy

Liz Posted

P.S. Saying Senna was unscrupulous (on the track) is merely stating a fact

That is your opinion, it is not a fact.

Since Ace does not know how to behave himself, his insults have been deleted and he has been warned.



[Edited by EERO on 25th September 2000]

[EERO]

Ace, consider yourself close to receiving a warning.

I am sorry that you are unable to distinguish the difference between Liz' statement that JV [might] hit the wall and the comment by our new friend BP wishing an accident upon Schumacher.

Despite what you think about anyone else on this forum, limit your persoanl attacks to a private forum such as Email. This is NOT the place for personal attacks.

Needless to say, reposting the same scatalogical comment which had been edited does not help your case.

Shape up.

[Liz]

I don't wish ill on anybody and especially don't wish that anyone would crash or otherwise be hurt racing - everything evil that happens in racing diminishes the sport I love.

When I predicted that Jacques would crash, it was more in sorrow than in hope, and I am very glad he did not (and equally glad that he didn't beat Frenzy, who is one of my favourites!)

I admit that I do not like some pilots as well as I like others, but I hope it's clear that I respect them all, especially their willingness to put their young lives and not inconsiderable talent (from TGF to Mazza) on the line for our entertainment and enjoyment. I do not think they would enjoy it so much if they knew people were sitting out here wishing they would be maimed or killed.

As an administrator it is part of my job to maintain order on this site, and unless and until I'm removed by the Race Director, it is what I mean to do. Perhaps Ace does not like having to bow to authority, but there is a big wide door to this place and he is welcome to take himself through it and close it behind him if he does not want to obey our rules.

As this forum is in the hands of Eero and Gerard, and they are handling matters just fine between them, that's all I have to say on the subject.

[AlteredGrizz]

I already wished bad thoughts so my favorite drivers wins.

In 1997 when Schumi tried to hit Jack off the track , i cheered when Schumi went flying into the gravel.

Is that not the same thing?
It wasn't wishing harm on someone , it was cheering after harm was done!

When the championship is on the line ,last race of the season your driver is 2 points behind the leader, 2 laps left in the race, your gonna tell me you don't wish something to happen to the leader!! please

[Valve Bounce]

I have to disagree with Tristan. From his very name, Buttplug does not appear to be homophobic.

[Gerard]

I'd like to thank those members who supported our decision.
To those who don't agree and are talking of free speech, I would like to ask their attention to the following, which is also stated in the forum faq's.

I am constantly amazed at those that cry 'free speech' in circumstances where their posts are edited or removed - especially as we publish our rules quite clearly, and to which you agree when registering. To begin with, it is not free speech. It is freedom of speech and it has been anything but free.

You have the right to stand on a soap box and speak your mind, but you must be willing to provide your own soapbox. No one is required to provide one for you.

You have the right to print your own newspaper, or write whatever you like (issues of libel aside) as long as you pay for the printing press, provide for the distribution, and take the financial risks associated with it. But your local newspaper is not required to print every letter to the editor they receive.

You have the right to start your own online site and conduct it in whatever manner you see fit as long as you are willing to devote the time and/or money needed to promote it. But no one is required to provide that for you.

In short, freedom of speech is alive and well but it has been anything but free. It has been paid for with hard work, sweat, determination, blood, and even the lives of those that were willing to risk everything to preserve it.

So for those that want to exercise their right to freedom of speech I have to ask... what are you willing to pay for it?

These words are based on thoughts by Larry Ward.

Please remember that this forum is not provided as right, but as a priviledge and that, as a privately owned and operated website, we are not covered by 'Freedom Of Speech' legislation.

[neutral]

Ace, I know me and you disagree on all matters of racing and will likely continue to do so. However, I would just like to say that I am in total agreement with everything you have just said. I was about to enter the argument much earlier, but you were putting it across much better than I could and it would have been awful to ruin your momentum. I must admit that each race, I pray for each Mclaren to blow up, have a shunt or anything else that prevents them from winning( Sorry Ace but its true). However, this does not mean I hate Mika/DC or wish any harm upon these two drivers.

[Liz]

I agree that after the cars blow up and the pilots are climbing out, I am sometimes very happy. (I didn't exactly moan with disappointment when That McLaren was out of the race yesterday ... ) but that is not the same as sitting at home hoping Mika will hit the wall. Remember all the people that cheered when TGF went into the wall at Silverstone and then found out to their dismay that the man was actually injured? And I would be willing to bet that there were some cheers when Senna crashed at Imola, by ignorant people who were just glad he was not in the race anymore and didn't stop to think whether he was all right. Think how they must have felt when they found out he was dead.

Wishing harm on people doesn't cause the harm, which is a good thing or we'd all be dead by now, but it sure does poison the atmosphere. That is why the Bible says the man who calls his brother a fool has already committed murder in his heart.

[angst]

Freedom of speech is fine, but if reason is drowned out by all the abuse and spite that certain individuals wish to inflict upon us then what freedom of speech are you left with? You need only glance at some of the other forums around to gain some idea. I feel very priveleged to have found a forum with so many varied and mostly reasoned debates. I find it interesting to get to 'know' people I have never met through their posts, without somebody calling me a ________ (fill in the blanks to your own taste). This can only happen because
a) we have a decent, thinking set of people posting on the forum.
b) because we have proper regulatory control over what is and isn't printed
Thank you Gerard et al for maintaining the high standards that we have all found at this forum.

[Ace]

I repeated 100 times that I’m against all kind of name calling and death wishing and I’m not standing up for ButtPlug. I’m just pointing out the fact that many other forum members have posted messages that can be open to the same interpretation. I mean why would I interpret Liz’s “Jacques will crash ” differently than butplug’s “Schumacher will hit the wall”? Why in one case would assume is harmless and in the other is blatant disregard and respect for a driver that risk his life? The only difference I see is that Liz has an administrative role here and the driver that deserves respect is Schumacher.

I’m not here for a political discussion about freedom of speech. I’m expressing my opinion about what I consider unfair. It is not fair that some forum members have the right to say anything they want and get away with it as long as they are not talking about Schumacher or they are administrators.

Gerard. If you were based in the States I would use your post against you in the court for stating that money buys you the right to impose your way of thinking. It might be true but you don’t say it like that. That was dumb from your part. And dumber considering that I was not trying to do any harm to this forum and contrary to that I was trying to make it a better place. After all I know you have my email address and I’m not hiding behind anything to express my opinion. I DON’T CARE ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH I’M JUST SAYING THAT YOU PEOPLE SHOUD BE CONSISTENT WHEN IT COMES TO REMOVE OR EDIT PEOPLE’S COMMENTS.
You and AEERO had put a heave load in your shoulders and there is no way back. From now on you have to edit and remove anything that has the possibility of being wrongly interpreted. And don’t assume that just because is Liz what she said is harmless. I think is time for Liz to reconsider her I-am-Mum-you-are-the-children approach.

Having said that. You guys are right that I was not invited here and I’m free to go. I will exercise my freedom and leave this place for good. I will miss the discussions I had with Neutral and Minardi Fan and others. I’m disappointed that I wont have the honor of having more exchange of opinions with Murph for whom I have a great deal of respect even if we don’t support the same driver.

[angst]

Ace, there is a HUGE difference between saying you THINK someone will end up in the wall and saying that you WISH for someone to end up in the wall. One is stating an opinion that somebody may be so hyped up that they may end up crashing, the other is wishing ill on an individual. Why on earth would you take Gerard to court for pointing out the fact that you are a guest on this forum and that you have agreed to abide by the rules of this forum? That although you do have the right to freedom of speech this forum is not legally obliged to offer itself up as a vehicle for your (or anybody elses) views. I don't think anything that was said was false, nor inflammatory and I don't understand what you have taken exception to.
I don't think there was anything 'dumb' in the post, and I can only suggest you read it again to gain an understanding of the point he was making, quite succesfully I thought.

[AlteredGrizz]

Well we can talk till were blue in the face, the fact is Gerard is the Big Kahoona here ,along with his trusty sidekick EERO.

So its their site and they can do whatever they please, Thats probably why they made it!
I have to tip my hat to Buttplug, hes been banned and were still talking about him!

How long before i get banned?
For i also hate Schumi, with a passion!

I just have to watch my swearing i guess.

Reply to Liz.
When i saw Schumi hit the wall at Silverstone, and then found out he broke his leg, didn't bother me what so ever!
It was his screw up, he didn't like the fact that Irvine was in front!And he tried to pass like a rookie would!
When O.Panis broke both his legs in Montreal, i felt bad because it was his car that broke, it wasn't a bonehead move like Schumi did in Silverstone!

If anybody cheered when Senna died, then they are pretty F***ed up!

[EERO]

Trusty Sidekick, Grizz? I'm flattered.

By the way, I can't stand Schumacher either, Grizz, and have made my opinion known for a long time.

But the fact is, its my opinion, and nothing more, and no more valid than anyone else's opinion, except maybe Murph who is right about everything.

Ace raised the point that he felt the administration of the forum had been unfair regarding statements which have been made, some of which are allowed to pass, some of which we object to.

In no way are we infallible. But we are volunteers trying to maintain a measure of peace in this place and as we have lives outside of this forum, cannot react to every post in a timely manner. Remember, we are ALL members here and for this virtual society to survive, it requires that we all respect one another. Ultimately, it is our individual honor that allows this place to thrive.

[Invader]

I still fail to understand how a human being can gain any satisfaction from irritating another to the point of sparking an emotive response.
We all understand the freedom of speech rules but please stop annoying the bulk of our members.
If there is any confusion over whom we are talking, I will simply ban your ISP's from these fora completely and then it will be crystal clear. .
You can of course use another provider but is it really all worthwhile?
You have been warned as per the forum rules which of course you read carefully before registering.

Enjoy, don't destroy.

[Ralf's Girl]

Has Buttplug really been banned???

I don't like Michael Schumacher either, but I don't wish harm on him, and I certainly don't HATE him.

AlteredGrizz said that Schumacher breaking his leg was a 'bonehead move'. So AlteredGrizz didn't watch the race? Brake failure is no 'bonehead move'.

[Tristan]

I've been off-line for a few days, I come back to the forum and I find THIS.

I just thought I'd make it known that I'm saddened to see that it has been found necessary, by all accounts, to barr one and for another to leave the forum community in protest. I don't care what anyone has said, THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AGAIN.

I would also loke to post that I think not only should we a) keep our tolerance of others but also b) show some respect for other users. Clearly the two in question have failed to do this. Let's ALL make the effort to keep inside boundries of decency, integrity and downright good-manners in this place. I think this whole sorry episode could be a timley reminder to us all.

BTW: there have been several suggestions by people that, if they want to post personal comments they should use the e-mail button and not post it in this forum. Well F U C K THAT. DON'T MAKE PERSONAL COMMENTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. THERE IS NO REASON TO INSULT ANYONE INTENTIONALLY. EVER.

Someone delete this topic please and lets talk about motor racing.

[Dani]

I agree with everything Ste.... sorry Ralf's Girl said.
Im not Jenson Button's biggest fan, and i wouldn't want be, and to be fair i really cannot watch him when he is on TV doin interviews! My point is although i dislike JB that much i would NEVER wish any harm on him, or any other driver!
As 4 MS oops sorry TGF being a bonehead 4 breaking his leg!! Well what can i say? Like he really intended to do it I think its safe to say u were wrong whoever said that!!

[Valve Bounce]

I want to say again that I came here and stayed because of the absence of insults and abuse which often punctuates the posts in other forums. May I suggest that we treat this forum as if we are visiting very good friends who do not like to swear or abuse anyone. Then if we carry ourselves in the manner that we would in chatting with our good friends, without intending to hurt them, I think that would be a good way to come here, don't you think?

[R]

Absolutely agree, Valve. Everyone should respect other forum members' opinion, and when you disagree - do it by discussing the topic, not by insulting the poster. "Attack the post, not the poster" has been said before, and I fully support that principle.

These type of posters that have been discussed here pop up from time to time, but the thing they have in common is that they usually disappear quickly, either by leaving voluntarily or by being banned. Probably the best thing to do if a new member posts an insulting comment is to ignore it completely, but that's very difficult, I know!

Whether your email address is viewable to other members or not is a choice everyone here has, but I of course agree with Tristan that insults should not be made at all, not by email either. I personally didn't want my email address to be viewable when I first came here, but after getting comfy around the place I decided to put it up.