The ingredients for the IRL were there from Day 1

[enzo]

The problem with people such as the Doc and the baron is that they refuse to see that the IRL is to CART what the Toledo Mudhens are to the NY Yankees - at best a decent minor league , but NOT the majors.

At least the minor league ball teams don't try to portray themselves as being the majors!

THAT is exactly the reason that the 500 is no longer the great race is was, and that the IRL as a whole can't get decent crowds anywhere they go - the fans realise it, and stay away in droves.

As f#cked up as CART's management has been in the past (and as someone who has been involved in CART both directly and indirectly for over 20 years, I know whence I speak), the one thing that they could always claim (and still can) is that they were second only to F1.

Both leagues are going to survive and do quite well, especially now that the 500 will start to regain a bit of it's lustre with the upcoming attendance of many of the CART teams. Those IRL teams that show well there against the big boys (and there will be some - all sorts of stuff can happen in a 500 mile race at the Speedway!) will gain stature (though gaining stature on the results of that race alone is highly misguided - the true test is to race with the big boys all year long, in all types of venues), and their other races will be propped up as a result.

But as long as CART doesn't lower itself into the "spec car" mindset, and keeps innovation and the strive for a sembelance of technological excellence alive, it will remain the premier league.

Assuming that they never let another Heitzler in again!

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by Glen Hartigan
Talk about name calling and insults...WOW...Dr. Austin you obviously love your i.r.l and thats fine,but why all the misguided babble about cart.

None of it is misguided. You can't dispute any of it. Take a shot at any of it. You can't. You only say it's misguided because you have no argument to dispute it. Nice try, but predictable yet again.

CART is swirling down the bowl because of the position CART has put itself it. No amount of IRL forum trolling by disgruntled CART fans is going to change that irrevokable truth. No amount of comparing Tony george to Hitler is going to save CART. No amount of calling IRL drivers scabs and hacks is going to change the fact that they are in the big show, baby! And the biggest race CART drivers can hope to run in under CART sanction is Long Beach. Hahahah.

CART fans have had it too easy with the IRL until now. It was sure funny to some CART fans when the IRL couldn't get equipment or keep race dates. It was sure funny to CART fans that the early USAC-run events were clustering operations. It was so funny for CART fans that life was good. CART fans had an easy target for their hostilities.


But Tony George has perfected the art of scenerio reversal. Almost every condition that existed in 1996 has now been reversed by the master's plan. The manufacturers are defecting to the IRL. CART's best teams are bailing out and coming to the IRL. Tony has the exclusive network TV package
while CART revels in mediocrity (and increased obscurity) on the NASCAR network.


And Tony still has the winning hand everytime with speedway in his arscenal. Anytime you go against the speedway and the 500, it's gonna be snake eyes for you, baby! Spin it again and bet on 16th and Georgetown!


Oh, the IRL's problems were so funny, but who has the circus clowns running the show? It's not so funny when it's Kniefel wearing the big red nose and screwing up your favorite races, is it? And Wally Dallenbach walked right into another scandal before his second weekend on the job was over. A scandal that he handled badly, by the way. And that was at CART's big show too.

CART's big show? Long Beach? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!!!

The IRL has it together. They run a professional series with breathtaking action and a minimum of scandal or snafu.
It is unbelievable the number of people who just can't see it, who just refuse to see it. While the IRL strengthens it's race schedule, it's base of teams, it's financial packages and wins more and more fans every race, CART is left flopping around in the turbulence. And some of it's fans are surely bewildered by it all.

No wonder some CART fans are so lost that they end up here.

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by enzo

"The problem with people such as the Doc and the baron is that they refuse to see that the IRL is ...... at best a decent minor league , but NOT the majors."

And CART is major with it's best teams bailing out to go IRL racing? Look to the people involved and where they are investing their money before you judge which series is major or minor. I suspect that the manufacturers and teams are going to cast their lot with the series they have the most faith in.]

By the way, which series is looking at limiting it's number of eligable chassis makers and which series is begging for more? Which series do you think the manufacturers have more faith in?



"THAT is exactly the reason that the 500 is no longer the great race is was,"

Was? CART teams are falling all over themselves trying to get in the big show. Marlboro told penske point blank to be there. Miller forced Rahal to go back. What do you mean it isn't great? If it is so devalued, why is it still more important than the entire CART schedule?

You don't see any IRL sponsors demanding their teams race in CART's big (hahahahaha) event, do you? Does CART even have a big event? Oh, yes, the REAL 500 is CART's big deal. The REAL cars, the REAL stars, the REAL, errrr, they don't do that anymore?

Maybe CART isn't such a big deal after all, is it?





" the one thing that (CART) they could always claim (and still can) is that they were second only to F1."

F-1, the real major league. Anything that pretends to be f-1 is merely a second rate joke. Now CART compares itself to F-1 while they lag 20 years behind F-1 technology? They sure have some people fooled. They aren't second to F-1, they are third behind the speedway whose apron strings they so desperately claw at to stay afloat. Without Indy, CART is merely a modern day F-5000. Not that it was a bad series, it just wasn't indycar racing. And niether is CART anymore.


CART doesn't even have their own identity anymore. Everytime they go out of the country, they steal the speedway's name by calling their event the "Indy this" or the "Indy that." If Indy is so second rate, why is CART so desperate to be identified with the great race?


Answer; CART has no identity. They sold their soul to Grosfeld and Vannani. They turned the future of the sport over to greedy wall street corporate :censored s.
You think CART has had a bad year? Wait until those two excercise their power grab. They have a history of working together to shake companies down. Go ahead and call me a name now so you can look foolish when it happens.

The owners were they guardians of sport, but the cheap buck meant too much to them. The team owners knew it was over the minute Tony announced his own series. They had to take the money before they lost everything. They sold out the sport and it's fans. They sold YOU out.



CART has an identity? They don't even make their own rules anymore. Tony controls CART's technical agenda. Maybe CART needs to wake up to the fact that George is the man best suited to lead both leagues into the 21st century. They are already following him. It is too sweet that CART fans used to call IRL fans lemmings. Whatever CART does, it is merely reacting to the IRL. Who are the lemmings now?




"Both leagues are going to survive and do quite well, especially now that the 500 will start to regain a bit of it's lustre with the upcoming attendance of many of the CART teams."

Yes, the IRL now has CART's most dominating teams as full
time participants. Chip and Roger are smart enough to see which league offers them the most value for their sponsor's and team's programs. That's why they were always great. That's why they were always winners. Teams like Green and Rahal aren't nearly as saavy, but they are coming with programs for the 500. Green is rumored to be dropping out of CART after 02 to become a full time IRL operation. And Rahal? With all the good temas in the IRL, he should have an easy time in the new minor leagues.


It isn't the 500 that is ragaining any of the luster it never lost. It is the returning CART teams that can now claim to be part of the world's greatest race that gain the most prestigue in this exchange. Many are going to like it so much that they won't go back to the other series. It happened with their finest team already. Any bets that Tony won't get everyone to come home?




"the true test is to race with the big boys all year long, in all types of venues,:

The big boys are in F-1. Many CART drivers have already miserably disgraced themselves in that formula, including the guy who just won CART's supposed "marquee" event at (hahaha) long beach. If youi want to say that JV and Monty used CART as a minor league stepping stone to F-1, then I will conced that.



"But as long as CART doesn't lower itself into the "spec car" mindset,"

Like they are doing with one chassis manufacturer (Lola) and maybe one engine company for 03? Are they even going to have that? IRL teams are guaranteed an ample supply of cars, engines and parts. Tough luck if you just bought three Reynards.


"and keeps innovation and the strive for a sembelance of technological excellence alive,"

You mean that two by four slab of wood they hang off the rear wing is technological excellence? After slagging off the IRL's formula for years, are we suddenly to believe that CART can make techno-wonders out of the same formula? Oh my god, CART will be running techno-crapwagons!




"it will remain the premier league."

comedy is toooooooo sweeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




"Assuming that they never let another Heitzler in again!"

Yes, but last year how many names did you call me when I said the guy was bad news? Maybe you've forgotten that. Maybe you've forgotten how you pooed what i said about Hietzler facing legal action over his bungling and maybe criminal antics. Maybe some of you people don't remember anything that you don't like to hear.

The problem isn't that the Baron and I refuse to see the IRL as second class. The problem is some of you don't understand that we don't care. No racing series on earth has ever offered so much gut-wrenching wheel to wheel 220+mph action. That is going to eventually sell itself.


Right now Tony has his hands full correcting the abuse and neglect that CART has spent over twenty years heaping upon the sport. Judging by the IRL's progress, there is no man better suited for the job.

[enzo]

Man, I've seen selective memory syndrome before, but you have taken it to another level altogether!

Chassis :

Yes, CART definetely has a chassis problem at the moment, but it certainly isn't due to becoming a spec chassis class. Manufacturers have always come and gone - some due to their mistaken "need" to get involved in F1 (March, Lola, Reynard), most due to their inability to cut it competitively (Penske, Eagle, Porsche, Swift, Galmer, Truesports, etc) Building a chassis where every aspect of it is dictated is easy in comparison to building a competitive one where the rules are fairly open.

True, CART is a poor second cousin to F1 technologically speaking, but they've never claimed to be on F1's level in that manner. CART's claim to fame has always been that it demanded the utmost in driver capability and adaptability in the fastest cars on the planet, not just turning left in a car that is glued to the track.

Foyt has proven himself over and over again to be hypocritical as all heck. Back in '86 and '87 he made all sorts of noise about how being fast at Indy no longer meant anything when the drivers never had to lift anymore, yet that is EXACTLY what the IRL has strived to produce : cars that damned near anyone can set up and drive to the limit.

Gee, 220+ racing with underpowered, over-downforced slot cars. Big f'in deal! May as well go watch Nascar if that's your idea of excellence. Personally, I'd rather go watch a WoO race if I want to see driving excellence in a lowtech atmosphere.

If you wish to compare CART machinery to the old F5000 ( a great class in it's time BTW), then I guess that the proper class to compare the IRL to is the SCCA's Spec Racer Ford.

Though I'll give TG credit : if you strive to appeal to the lowest common denominator, you'll probably find all sorts that think it is great racing. Just like Nascar.

Let's see - CART drivers in F1 and visa versa.

Uhhh, Mario, Emerson, Villeneuve, Montoya, and Mansell all seem to have been rather successful in both. Zanardi's flamboyant driving style was ill-suited to the insainly twitchy F1 cars of that time (and a not-so-good team at that time) , yet you would have to be insane to call him second rate. Mikey screwed himself with his attitude (and should rightfully be chastised), but his speed was never in question - the time differential between himself and Senna was better than the differential between Senna and Prost, and on tracks that he had never seen until race weekend! Oh yes - and had only 12 practice laps to learn the track before qualifying!

Cheever was a grid filler at best in F1, and even though he drove for Ganassi when he came over to CART, he was still just a grid filler. He11, in the IRL he is still mostly just a grid filler!

I don't see any retiring F1 drivers clamoring to get into the IRL, but there are still some that are trying to find a CART ride. The IRL doesn't interest them.

There isn't a single IRL driver that could cut it in F1, except the Penske boys, and maybe the new boy Scheckter. They are also the only ones who could cut it in CART.

CART teams switchng to IRL:

Only ONE team has done a wholesale switch so far, and that was because of sponsor demands. All the others are only part-time participants, and only because of sponsors wanting the extra exposure of Indy.

Without the 500, the IRL wouldn't have made it off of the drawing board.

Me and Heitzler:

Again, your memory is rather selective, and poor at that. I've done nothing but critisise him, and I hope CART's lawsuit is successful against him. The man is a fraud, and his actions during his tenure border on criminal.

Indy:

Indy is still the biggest hyped race in the world, and the sponsors still get the best bang for the buck from that race, but that's because of name recognition based on all the years of tradition - when all comers were welcome, and innovation in cars and engines were normal and looked forward to, NOT because it has become a spec car race. If it hasn't lost some of it's allure, I wonder why the attendance and TV ratings were down for all of the IRL years? Must have been some part of TG's master plan, I guess!

Well, I've got better things to do with my life than to continue this rather pointless debate, so I'll leave it to you to flame on in whatver manner you find will fulfill your ego's needs.

[botsquad]

as far as the topic itself:

the ingrediant, of course, was always there.
it's called the indy 500.

tony decided to use it in nasty power-play.
cart counterd..and lost

as far the racing:

it took awhile.....but the irl is very racy.
the addition of so many good new drivers this
season has been a big boost.

should be a great shoot-out at nazerth this weekend.

happy birthday to little al...the big 40......
show up sober on saturday al

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by enzo



"Yes, CART definetely has a chassis problem at the moment, but it certainly isn't due to becoming a spec chassis class."

How many different CART chassis is Lola going to build? Is CART even going to have any chassis at all?



"Building a chassis where every aspect of it is dictated is easy in comparison to building a competitive one where the rules are fairly open."

Yes, it is so easy that Reynard is racking in the customers for it's new R&S car. They sure showed them. They showed them in 1996 when they made spares available to all the CART teams who had 1995 cars, but refused to help the IRL teams. It is too sweet that Reynard himself credits his own IRL effort as a contributor to his company's' downfall.






".... yet that is EXACTLY what the IRL has strived to produce : cars that damned near anyone can set up and drive to the limit."

Anyone? Coming from someone who doesn't even have the first clue as to how the friction circle works? Everyone check the time line of the posts, and this guy won't have an answer until he has an hour to look it up. You don't know what it's like in those cars. You have no clue. Go on and on about how anyone can do it.

It's easy to talk about it when you didn't have what it takes to do it yourself. Put you in an IRL car for two laps and even mommie won't be able to console what a wuss you would be. Big mouths talk about it being too easy while the same big mouths are too lame to try it themselves. I don't see you on the grid. Did you turn down an IRL ride because it is too easy? Big talk. No substance. No surprise.





"Gee, 220+ racing with underpowered, over-downforced slot cars."

IRL cars consistantly go faster than CART cars when they both test at Pheonix. If the cars are so overdownforced, won't the increased drag actually make them slower? Tell us what you really know besides the party line.






"Though I'll give TG credit : if you strive to appeal to the lowest common denominator, you'll probably find all sorts that think it is great racing."

The lowest common on denominator is idiots who think going 225+mph is too easy. Gregg Moore dismembered himself at 216mph. Do you really want to see more of that?



The system has notified me that this post is too long, so i will continue below.....

[Dr. Austin]

"Let's see - CART drivers in F1 and visa versa."

Too easy.





"Uhhh, Mario, Emerson, Villeneuve, Montoya, and Mansell"

Mario and Emerson were both world champions before CART ever existed. Both came to CART only after their F-1 careers had petered out to less than nothing. Mansell was world champion already when he came over and handed the CART contingent a spanking.

JV was just in the CART minors waiting for his F-1 chance. He has gone on record as saying the way he was treated by CART during his 1995 championship as "not very professional."

And Monty? Just a product of Frank having too many really talented drivers. He had to farm Monty out while he appeased the British press with Jenson's signing. JPM will never be back in CART. He is right now where he always wanted to be when he was spanking the hapless, second classer, F-1 wannabees in CART.

And Mansell? He was world champion before he ever looked at a CART car. It is little wonder he spanked them so effortlessly.




"Zanardi's flamboyant driving style was ill-suited to the insainly twitchy F1 cars of that time "

What? A CART champion who isn't versatile? Isn't that what CART fans try to pound into everyone's head, that the CART drivers are the most versitile and adaptable of them all?
You mention the team as being "not-so- good," but it is undisputable fact that highly disrespected (around here, anyway) Ralf scored 35 points to Zanardi's big goose egg with the same car.





"Mikey screwed himself with his attitude (and should rightfully be chastised), but his speed was never in question - the time differential between himself and Senna was better than the differential between Senna and Prost,"

Blatantly untrue. Prost could, upon occasion, outqualify and beat Senna on the road. As teammates, Prost and Senna split the score with one championship apiece. In the one time Senna beat Prost to the championship, Prost actually had more total points for the season.

Mikey never even came close. While Senna normally occupied the front row or so, Mikey thrashed about just trying unsuccessfully to get into the top ten. He never had a grip on it at all and threw away almost every decent opportunity he had. He always looked like one of Schumacher's haplessly lost domistiques.

It is worth noting that a driver of future repute stepped into Mikey's car dead cold and outqualified Senna the very first race after he replaced Mikey. Nothing wrong with that car. nothing wrong with that team. The same driver went on to take Mikey's ride to two consecutive world championships.
I would call that a wasted opportunity.





" He11, in the IRL he is still mostly just a grid filler!"

Polly wants a CART cracker. More parroting instead of an original thought. Nice troll, but everyone is on to it.





"There isn't a single IRL driver that could cut it in F1, except the Penske boys,"

No one in CART could cut it. No one currently there is going
to F-1 either. If you want to play the driver superiority farce, CART doesn't have anyone to crow about either.






"Only ONE team has done a wholesale switch so far, and that was because of sponsor demands."

There was more to it than that. You love to go on about selective memory, but Roger himself said he would never forget the "punch in the nose." You either forgot that or conveniently left it out of your memory.


Roger pulled out his team. Roger can have any sponsor he wants. He can run the team on his spare change. He didn't need marlboro to point him to what he already saw as the right direction anyway.

Roger pulled out his tracks. Marlboro has nothing to say about Roger's other business ventures. It wasn't Marlboro who got punched "in the nose," so they have nothing to say about it.

Roger sold his stock. You aren't going to blame Marlboro for any of that. The swirling CART cesspool of corruption and ineptness is not the kind of atmosphere that Roger built his success in. Roger had to cut his exposure to all the upcoming lawsuits and criminal indictments. He has too much going for him to lose it all by hanging out with skanky cirsus promoters like Uncle Joe.





"All the others are only part-time participants, and only because of sponsors wanting the extra exposure of Indy."

So it's all back to Indy, isn't it? It's always been about the Indy 500. CART knows it is utterly nothing without the 500. That is why they cling so desperately to it's skirt. They know their own greatness falls more and more apart when they distance themselves from where it all began. That is why they are coming back.



It's all about Indy. And it always has beeen.


It always will be. Long after CART is a bad, distant memory.
Everyone thought AAA had an iron grip on it, didn't they? Everyone thought the 500 was USAC's forever. Everyone was wrong. The only thing that is forever is 16th and Georgetown. Dig it, baby!






"Without the 500, the IRL wouldn't have made it off of the drawing board."

That's right. And everyone knows it. It's all about the Indianapolis 500. Everything else is just a support series.
CART is waking up to the fact they will not survive without the 500.

It's all about the Indianapolis 500. It always has been. If it wasn't about the 500, CART could have gone their own merry way without a backward glance. If it wasn't about the 500, CART would have bounded from one success to the next on their own merit. Now that they are not allowed to use the indycar name, now that they are not allowed to decieve the public into believing they are the real Indycars, well, they are just ****ed, aren't they?




"when all comers were welcome,"

Name one person the IRL has excluded from the 500, besides those who weren't fast enough to make the show. Name one. just one. you can't. All you can do is parrot the lame CART party line. All comers are welcome. The IRL welcomed CART founder Penske back to the 500 last year with open arms. Many CART fans like to point to CART teams dominating the race, and that is the real proof that anyone who goes to the speedway will be welcomed and given a fair shake.



"and innovation in cars and engines were normal and looked forward to, NOT because it has become a spec car race."

Wake up. Innovation died the day the turbine was silenced. It has been spec car racing ever since. First it was Formula-offy (notice i resisted calling it F-offy). Then F-cosworth. Then F-chevy. Then F-mercedes. CART is so spec now that anytime someone gets an engine advantage, it is necessary to collude with certain manufacturers behind the other's back. How innovative.




"If it hasn't lost some of it's allure, I wonder why the attendance and TV ratings were down for all of the IRL years?"

Too many fair weather fans like you. Last year was the first time since 1984 that i missed a CART race, and that is only because I fell asleep during the Grand parade of Long beach. A real fans loves it all.

When CART is dead, and there is one unified series based at 16th and George, the fans will come. Last year the IRL had a scorching run of consecutive sellouts. Build it and they will come.





"Well, I've got better things to do with my life than to continue this rather pointless debate"

It is only pointless because all you have is the CART party parrot routine. and if you get your thrills coming to the IRL forum trying to dispell IRL fan's pleasure, you have no life anyway.





"so I'll leave it to you to flame on in whatver manner you find will fulfill your ego's needs."

I am not the one trolling another forum and taking shots at the series' drivers and fans. You have demonstrated a habit of showing up here and calling the IRL drivers less that complimentary names. You who don't even know what the friction circle is. You who don't have enough balls to get in a race car.

And ego? mine is already fufilled. I've done my racing and failed to get to the top. At least I know it. At least I have a taste of what it's like. At least I know that even the people you think of as scrubs have something almost none of us could summon up.

You seem to revel in tearing down the achievement of others who are far more successful than you can ever be. Are you bitter? Are you lost? Does it make you feel less of a failure to say they have achieved nothing?

These guys have made the big show. Slagging them off won't get you in. Insulting their abilities won't make you a successful racing driver. It just makes you defeated and bitter. They made it. It sucks being on the outside, whimpering your life away because you never got a look in.


KA-GOOOOSH, baby!

[The Beer Baron]

As much as I like CART Teams and drivers, I dont give a shilt about a series that's owned by Vianni & Grosfeld, I didn't become a fan to bow down in front of them guys!

Anyway CART couldn't break the Indy 500 back in 1996, they should've realised such and given IMS a bigger say in their affairs, I'm sure IMS would've backed down from their original demands and worked something out.

Right now they are two low-profile series, and we're arguing over tenths of ratings points and a few thousand spectators!

[SevenGrain]

This thread is getting a bit out of hand, but I wanted to address this issues with the chassis.

The IRL has had five manufacturers send a letter of intent to build IRL chassis. Dallara, G-Force, Lola, Penske, and Dome. Dallara and G-Force are most likely in. Penske as the likely third choice, as T.G. is hip to keep Roger happy.

According to Tim Cindric, the company has made no actual decisions on whether or not to built a chassis, they are still in the discovery phase.

Lola, on the other hand, have a working design and have spent time in the wind tunnel developing it. They are much farther along than Penske. When CART announced that they would run a similar chassis formula, Lola realized that this was an opportunity to generate new business.

Dome has nothing more than the letter of intent and are not really a player.

So, to say that the IRL has many chassis manufacturers clammoring to get into it's series is a bit of a misrepresentation.

The speculation is that the IRL will create a rule to keep any manufacturer that does business with the IRL from supplying another series. This rule is not set in stone, but the IRL may be leaning that way. If they do, you have to assume that the only intent here is to hurt CART, and to make it harder for CART teams to enter the 500. (i.e. they need to purchase seperate equipment, even though the chassis rules are the same.) This is another reason why Lola would be left out. Lola fully intend to file a restraint of trade lawsuit if the IRL goes ahead with this rule.

In doing this the IRL will also be hurting G-Force, one of the IRL's supporters, who are very interested in supplying CART with chassis once the '03 rules go into effect. Don't think that G-Force will not join Lola's lawsuit. They have just as much to gain.

As far as CART is concerned, Lola will be there and Reynard may be there as well. Reynard Cars North America is still operating in Indianapolis and it looks as if there is a buyer lined up (Great Britan-based International Race Management) that has an interest in continuing Champ Car Racing operations.

In addition, Traini Corse, The maker of F1 chassis (and other major parts)for Ferrari and F3000 chassis, is deep in discussions with several CART teams about supplying chassis in 2003 and beyond.

So to say CART is begging for somebody to come in is not entirely true either. G-Force is being held back from CART by the IRL.

And Engines? CART may have as many as five or six engine manufacturers by 2004 when all is said and done. Cosworth (Mazda), Toyota, and Judd-MG are all confirmed. Illmor (badged as Chrysler) Audi, and Masareti, are all in discussions.

[kmchow]

Could IRL's success be due to the fact they are following the Nascar/American way of racing/business versus CART's F1 approach at racing? Recently, CART's sponsor lineup is looking a lot more like IRLs, which looks a lot like Nascars?

Down to earth everday sponsors versus hard to grasp sponsors like Visteon and Kool?? I love the idea of a AOL/Purex/McDonald's sponsored car versus a Visteon (for example) sponsored one. Fans can relate to Nascar/IRL sponsors better???

[SevenGrain]

KOOL is "hard to grasp"?

No harder , I would imagine, than Winston or Marlboro.

[kmchow]

Oh yeah, not to mention other than Winston, Nascar doesn't have as much tobacco sponsors as CART has with Players, Hollywood,Kool,Malboro,what else? Overall, Nascar is much more sponsor/fan friendly. Of course, I have high praise for Nascar's business/sponsor sense.
It's too bad someone like McDonald's has not returned to CART racing since they lost their team in '00.

Their quality and style of racing is another story...

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SevenGrain



"The speculation is that the IRL will create a rule to keep any manufacturer that does business with the IRL from supplying another series."

This is not only great business sense, but it reverses just one of the scenerios that existed in 1996. CART did everything it could to pull the equipment rug out from under the IRL teams in 1996. They banded together and agreed not to sell any 1995 spec cars or spares to the IRL teams. In what may have been one of CART's early collusion scandals, there may have been pressure put of suppliers to consider IRL teams "hands off" as customers. Suddenly, Reynard didn't have in 1995 parts in stock, and oh by the way, we won't be making any, either.



So now the tables are turning and some people don't like it, huh? It was sure ok when it was CART that was trying to strangle off the IRL's grid.




"This rule is not set in stone, but the IRL may be leaning that way. If they do, you have to assume that the only intent here is to hurt CART, and to make it harder for CART teams to enter the 500."

I don't believe this is entirely true. Hurting CART is just a happy side effect. The rule will guarantee that IRL manufacturers will not be able to bail out on them like they did in 1996. CART might have been able to pressure Reynard into an embargo, but Tony isn't going to have anyone supplying his series get in a position where they owe CART a damm thing.


No, the intent of any rule here is to make sure any supplier for the IRL has the capacity, finances and integrity to keep his teams in cars and parts. This is to assure that the 1996 cars and parts hostage scenerio never happens to the IRL again. If this puts the squeeze on CART, ha, ha, payback is just a *****, isn't it?


If I were George, I would allow any manufacturer in as long as they guarantee they will satisfy the need of the IRL teams first. Anytime parts are short, the other series will be out of luck first. There can be no other way.

Tony isn't going to let CART play the cars hostage game. CART tried to deal the speedway a death blow in 1996. Was everyone in CART so stupid they thought George would forget that? CART made their own bed on this one.


Now where is Enzo with all of his goose and gander talk?


And CART fans a squeeling foul? It was an acceptable enough tactic when CART was doing it to the IRL, but now it's wrong? Reversal of scenerio, trading fortunes, karma's interveneing in fate, what the hell, isn't it all the same?


Comedy is toooooo sweeeeeet"