Arrows A2

[allenbrown]

I am very wary of trying to work by process of elimination. Just because we know the current location of a car wearing a particular chassis number doesn't mean we can reach conclusions about any other car.

For example, I have just completed a dossier on a Brabham BT25. The easy way would have been to say that there were only two and that we know one is in Australia so the Donington car must be the other one. I wasn't happy with that approach and instead looked at provenance, rivet patterns and for repair damage for a reported fuel tank explosion. All checked out so the car was completely authentic - but it justified the effort to make all those checks.

So on the A2s, can we look at provenance instead and see where each car traces back to? For example, would somebody be wiling to give the last few owners of the car at H Engineering?

[Thundersports]

The car at H eng is straight forward.....I thought you might have known that Allen?

[funformula]

What information can we take for granted?

A2-1 Jackie Oliver´s car until 200? Currently H-Engineering!!!

A2-2 in Germany at least around the early 80´s, at some point in Japan???

A2-3 sold by Arrows in 1983 then went to a collector until 1992 then Japan???

[H.Eng]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

I am very wary of trying to work by process of elimination. Just because we know the current location of a car wearing a particular chassis number doesn't mean we can reach conclusions about any other car.

For example, I have just completed a dossier on a Brabham BT25. The easy way would have been to say that there were only two and that we know one is in Australia so the Donington car must be the other one. I wasn't happy with that approach and instead looked at provenance, rivet patterns and for repair damage for a reported fuel tank explosion. All checked out so the car was completely authentic - but it justified the effort to make all those checks.

So on the A2s, can we look at provenance instead and see where each car traces back to? For example, would somebody be wiling to give the last few owners of the car at H Engineering?

Hi Allan

the car at our workshop is A2/1 (fitted with the mass roll hoop!!)

and was from the jackie oliver collection,
a couple of pictures of the car very nearly finished, if you pm me i can give you owners from oliver for your records.

[funformula]

So now we learned that a roll hoop gives no clue to the chassis number.
Did you changed the hoop throughout the restauration or was the car already delivered with the "wrong" hoop?
I found pictures from the London Motor Show 1986 where the Patrese car was on exibition with the correct lower hoop.
So at one stage the hoop must have been changed for unknown reasons.

[funformula]

Sorry to create some more confusion.

I had a look in the German January 2002 issue of "F1-Magazine". There is an article about the Arrows A2.
The article says that the car shown in the pictures it is A2-1 only driven by Patrese in seven GP´s in 1979. The pictures show the car with the modified roll-hoop, No.30 on it and with Mass´s name written on both sides. It is not mentioned in the article why it is not in Patrese outfit any more.

There is a statement from Jackie Oliver telling about the history of the A2. He said that there were two cars built, the one in the pictures and one he still ownes (in 2002).

That suggests that Oliver owned A2-2, or is there maybe a fault in the translation for the German issue? Does anybody have the English issue of F1-Racing to check this?

[storminnormin]

I can confirm that there was indeed a third, unraced, chassis. My late brother, Ken Wells, obtained it from Arrows. When he sadly died in 1992 it was sold and shipped to Tokyo.

I have many pics, somewhere, as proof.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by storminnormin

I can confirm that there was indeed a third, unraced, chassis. My late brother, Ken Wells, obtained it from Arrows. When he sadly died in 1992 it was sold and shipped to Tokyo.

I have many pics, somewhere, as proof.

I got on very well with your late brother and we corresponded on a number of issues in the 1980s. He never did show me pictures of the A3 and I'd be very interested to see them. My email is allen@oldracingcars.com if you'd be willing to share a few.

Very interesting that it went to Japan. I had always wondered where his cars went.

Allen