Jenson Button better than Senna - Page 2

ang · 8 Oct 2000, 00:34 (Ref:41708)

I believe part of being a great F1 driver is not just the ability to drive the car fast but the ability to obtain the best drive in the paddock and also to motivate the team around you.

You can see that currently in drivers like Schumacker and Hakkinen. Most definately Senna had this ability as did Prost.

Whether Jenson Button can also do this remains to be seen.

Valve Bounce · 8 Oct 2000, 02:22 (Ref:41717)

Bunsen putting the Williams on the third row is nothing short of sensational, never mind outqualifying Ralf. I just had a thought - if Bunsen was in the McLaren, he probably would have put the thing on the front row and won a couple of races by now. Unfortunately, we will never know. This kid is Good!! Just let's not put the hoodoo on him with this Senna comparison.

EERO · 9 Oct 2000, 01:30 (Ref:41864)

Look, Jenson F1, I apologise for my earlier sarcasm, but I honestly marvelled at your comparison. There is no question that the little fella has far outperformed the expectations of some very jaded members of this forum and the expectations of some very experienced members of the F1 community. However, I think that the reason Senna's death was so shocking was the level to which he was revered in life. His driving was pure magic.
Button is stilll only 20, and hopefully has a long and successful career ahead of himself, but I sincerely believe that it is far too early to make that comparison on the basis of a few fifth places.

Valve Bounce · 9 Oct 2000, 10:57 (Ref:41937)

EERO, be fair - a fifth place this year behind two Ferraris and two McLarens is a bloody good effort. As I said three posts earlier, if Bunsen was in a McLaren this year, he would probably have burnt up the tracks and scorched a couple of wins. What do you think the Renault-Benneton will be like next year? Very difficult, is my guess. I think both Bunsen and Frank will be losers in this deal. AND don't forget, it was a very slippery track, and Bunsen beat a past World Champion and one of the best drivers around for that fifth spot!!

**Peter Mallett** · 9 Oct 2000, 14:35 (Ref:41986)

Its worth remembering that Bunsen started in a reasonable car with a totally new engine, whilst Senna started in a dog of a car with a reasonably proven engine.

Senna's first season was pretty unremarkable.

Bunsen's first season has been impressive. Also I firmly believe that he will give Fissichella a good run for his money next year.

This time next year, maybe Frank will be regretting the Montoya deal (like the Zanardi deal before). So, let's not write the guy off yet. He has proved he can overtake and he has proved the equal of Ralf.

I think people should forget their prejudices when discussing this driver because he has certainly been a breath of fresh air so far. It wasn't his fault that the marketting men got hold of him. He needs to make a living like the rest of us.

BTW. Until the round at Spa two weeks ago, the Renault F3 engine had not scored a win in the British Championship since Button drove it last year. He may well get some good treatment from Renault for that.

EERO · 9 Oct 2000, 17:35 (Ref:41997)

Bouncey, I thought I WAS being fair.

Ralf's Girl · 9 Oct 2000, 20:46 (Ref:42045)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett

He has proved he can overtake and he has proved the equal of Ralf.

Only one word:

NEVER.

R · 9 Oct 2000, 21:18 (Ref:42056)

In the beginning of the season Ralf had the advantage over Button. This has evened out during the course of the season, and JB has outqualified Ralf on a number of occasions. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Ralf, but Button's rookie year has been far more impressive than Ralf's was.

Valve Bounce · 9 Oct 2000, 22:52 (Ref:42067)

i WILL CHEER FOR BOTH bUNSEN AND JACQUES NEXT YEAR. Oh God!! Why do I type like this?

Ralf's Girl · 10 Oct 2000, 20:41 (Ref:42221)

Ralf's rookie year wasn't impressive because:

He had a car in 97 that was not as good as this year's Williams

He didn't have a team-mate to learn from the way Media Idol has. Perhaps partly why Ralf was so disappointed that he wouldn't be joined at Jordan that year by Damon Hill?

Carla O · 10 Oct 2000, 22:20 (Ref:42242)

Senna's first season was unremarkable???????????????????

Did you miss the Monaco GP in 94?

Valve Bounce · 10 Oct 2000, 22:32 (Ref:42248)

Carla O, a big welcome to our friendly forum. I just want to tell you that 1994 was not TGF's first season.

EERO · 10 Oct 2000, 22:41 (Ref:42250)

Carla O, welcome. I believe you meant '84, not '94 as Senna's first season if I am not mistaken.

Be nice, Bouncey; unfortunately '94 was a pretty dreadful year for Senna fans.

SL · 10 Oct 2000, 22:41 (Ref:42251)

Valve, TGF is not Senna, nor is Senna TGF

The arguement about who is best will reign for many years, for me it was Jimmy Clark.

Senna was amazing, I saw him 1st GP at Silverstone, although a lap down due to tech problems he was equal to the leaders and kept pace with them for many laps, maybe learning for the future.

So far Button, maybe good, but sorry,not in the same league as Senna, Clark, Moss, Hawthorn, Rindt, Fangio and so on.

SL

Valve Bounce · 10 Oct 2000, 22:58 (Ref:42260)

SL, I'm getting mixed up. I know TGF is not Senna. I stand corrected, and I will excuse my mistake by the fact that both are champions. I was so keen to welcome Carla O to our forum that I got all confused at what she posted. Please accept my "sorry" Carla.
However, I think that Bunsen has shown a maturity in his first year by not dumping the car in the shrubbry, and he has impressed me more than I had expected.

SL · 10 Oct 2000, 23:13 (Ref:42263)

Mr Bounce, or may I call you Valve ??

No problem..........
But just remember Jimmy is the best..........

Also may I welcome Carla onto T/T

SL

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Oct 2000, 06:28 (Ref:42279)

Perhaps I should clarify.

Senna's first season was unremarkable in terms of results. In fact it was three(?) seasons before he really started to put it together regularly.

Technology and reliability have improved tremendously now. Ergo, we expect much more from new arrivals than we did in '84 or even '92.

So, based on that I would say that Button has performed pretty well in consideration of his experience and the quality of his car.

Remember also that Brundle ran Senna extremely close in the '83 F3 championship and they both made their respective (average) mounts look good in their first seasons. However results were pretty average.

Valve Bounce · 11 Oct 2000, 07:49 (Ref:42285)

SL, I don't want to talk about Jimmy. I don't think about Jimmy. For years I did not follow F1 after the accident.

Nuvolari · 11 Oct 2000, 13:55 (Ref:42342)

When Mr. Button has won his fourth WDC we'll talk about comparisons with Senna.

**Peter Mallett** · 11 Oct 2000, 14:04 (Ref:42344)

Point one. How many championships did Senna win?

Point two. Absolutely. It would be nice to think that we can compare them in a few years time.

However comparing Senna to Clark is equally pointless in terms of straight comparison. But, you can always benchmark against earlier greats. That's what these topics are about.

Ralf's Girl · 11 Oct 2000, 20:17 (Ref:42413)

Welcome to 10/10s Carla. Just watch out for...only kidding! Most of the people on here are great...except for...no, I am kidding...

Liz · 12 Oct 2000, 01:04 (Ref:42486)

While I am sure Bunsen believes himself to be the equal of Senna (at least as far as having his own signature wardrobe for sale goes), and I see that he is already writing his autobiography - as if a man only 20 years old has enough life experience to even write an autobiographical ARTICLE - he has been reading his own press releases and mistaking them for truth if he thinks he has won three driving championships and unnumbered pole positions before he has ever won a race.

If he wishes to write and sell fiction, there is a market for it which does not involve driving racing cars.

He might also run for president, as that does not seem to be a handicap in that field either.

LYM · 12 Oct 2000, 02:00 (Ref:42491)

The real motive behind this thread is not for real discussions, but to create enuff controversies to promote http://tentenths.com/forum/JensonF1.com

So everyone who has contributed to the topic, please check it up, or someone will be disappointed!

PS: A good site, but not really for Ralf fans.

**Peter Mallett** · 12 Oct 2000, 06:20 (Ref:42504)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
While I am sure Bunsen believes himself to be the equal of Senna (at least as far as having his own signature wardrobe for sale goes), and I see that he is already writing his autobiography - as if a man only 20 years old has enough life experience to even write an autobiographical ARTICLE - he has been reading his own press releases and mistaking them for truth if he thinks he has won three driving championships and unnumbered pole positions before he has ever won a race.

If he wishes to write and sell fiction, there is a market for it which does not involve driving racing cars.

He might also run for president, as that does not seem to be a handicap in that field either.

But Liz. You seemed quite happy to accept RB's belief in his own press whilst those of us with a (perhaps) slightly more balanced(?) view took an alternative stance. However when it comes to someone who is non-Brazilian you appear to be blinkered.

Welcome back BTW. Good holiday?

TimD · 12 Oct 2000, 08:00 (Ref:42512)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
... I am sure Bunsen believes himself to be the equal of Senna (at least as far as having his own signature wardrobe for sale goes....

I guess when we see the "Jensinha" comic books, we should start to worry...

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