TCR World Tour 2023 (formerly known as WTCR)

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think the FIA together with SEAT effectively killed the WTCC after the TDi debacle.

and the 2009 crisis, the championship was never the same again

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and the 2009 crisis, the championship was never the same again

What happened in 2009?

[pimmy]

At the end of 2009 SEAT & LADA pulled out and BMW downsized their entry to 2 cars.

[samchevron]

I like this idea known as the TCR World Tour. 9 events that will race in new locations as well as across Europe.

It offers a chance for existing and new teams to take part, with a Final set across 4 days & 60 drivers

[GusGasfuss]

I think, these "crisis" is always evident, as manufacturers always try to get their advantages over the competition...


See Ford with turbocharged Sierras, see Audi with all-wheel-drive, see Seat with TDI etc.

Of course, technology is changing and a manufacturer tries to show his engineering or his wealth.


I don't know, how much Lynk&Co. has spent for WTCR with all these high-profile-drivers and maybe most advanced technology? That was not cheap, and understandable, that they don't want to loose because of tyres they can't use fully. Or other things, they make them slower.

[iceman-1987]

[QUOTE=GusGasfuss;4131263]I think, these "crisis" is always evident, as manufacturers always try to get their advantages over the competition...


See Ford with turbocharged Sierras, see Audi with all-wheel-drive, see Seat with TDI etc.

Of course, technology is changing and a manufacturer tries to show his engineering or his wealth.

i don't agree with you. In years 90 during golden era of supertouring also Nissan and Ford tried to develop in germany a 4WD same as Audi but with poor results.

in 96 when audi dominated in 7 different championship the main quality was the reliability that other manufacture hadn't.

in wtcc made available the possibility to use a TDI engin rather than an aspirate gasoline. If SEAT chose this way it's not their fault and btw also other manufactures could use it as well if with SEAT was working good.

In general i think that in WTCC it's normal that manufacture wanna partecipate. What the organisation shuold make are CLEAR RULES, SAME CONDITIONS TO DEVELOPS THE CAR (same days of test before or during the year).

[GusGasfuss]

[QUOTE=iceman-1987;4131495]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I think, these "crisis" is always evident, as manufacturers always try to get their advantages over the competition...


See Ford with turbocharged Sierras, see Audi with all-wheel-drive, see Seat with TDI etc.

Of course, technology is changing and a manufacturer tries to show his engineering or his wealth.

i don't agree with you. In years 90 during golden era of supertouring also Nissan and Ford tried to develop in germany a 4WD same as Audi but with poor results.

in 96 when audi dominated in 7 different championship the main quality was the reliability that other manufacture hadn't.

in wtcc made available the possibility to use a TDI engin rather than an aspirate gasoline. If SEAT chose this way it's not their fault and btw also other manufactures could use it as well if with SEAT was working good.

In general i think that in WTCC it's normal that manufacture wanna partecipate. What the organisation shuold make are CLEAR RULES, SAME CONDITIONS TO DEVELOPS THE CAR (same days of test before or during the year).

Of course everybody could develop whatever the rules accept. But if it doesn't fit to your model range, or what you want to advertise, it is uselesss.


When Ford had Sierra Turbos, BMW didn't even use a turbocharger in current model range for street use.


Nissan and Ford don't had the experience with 4WD like Audi, and in case of Ford, the car was generally not really competitive.


In 90s DTM we had 2.5l NAs against 2.0l Turbos, 3.6l NA V8s. Not easy to equal them.


And for the TDI: of course Seat was not that competitive with their gasoline engine, but had good experience with diesel engines.

Not sure, if BMW would like to advertise Diesel engines, they already won 24h Nurburgring race with a Diesel in 1998 (and in my opinion had the best technology for Diesel already in the market (selling successful). Not sure, if it would be a good idea to leave customer teams (and BMW sold a lot of WTCC kits to customers) with the needs of a diesel technology on a race car.


In general i am fine with all regulations (Gr.A. DTM90, STW/STC, WTCC, TCR) but they all are in need of BOP if someone uses a different approach to building a car to the regulations.

[porsche962fan]

you're mistaken

DTM banned Turbos follwing the 1989 season so no turbo's after that

there were 2.0 L cars on the DTM 1990 grid , those were the old Opel Kadett of Team Schübel but no turbos and they didn't even finish the season

[FIRE]

About Comtoyou:

...

The outfit has already committed to continuing to represent Audi as an official partner next year, saying it will enter four RS3 cars into the new nine-event TCR World Tour, as well as four cars in TCR Europe – meaning eight cars on the grid in the events when the two categories share the bill together.

“We will officially represent Audi Sport in the new TCR World Tour,” said Team Manager François Verbist.

“We will enter four Audi RS3 LMS cars in the nine events of this world calendar, which is a one-off addition to existing championships.

“In addition, we will also be defending our titles in TCR Europe with four cars. In other words, when TCR World Tour and TCR Europe join forces, we will be fielding eight Audi RS 3 LMS cars!”

...

“With Audi Sport, our objective is to go for the first TCR World Tour title,” said Team Principal Jean-Michel Baert.

“The concept is attractive, as is the TCR World Ranking. Just like what we know in tennis, for example, this Ranking is the world ranking of TCR drivers with points to be scored in the various competitions where TCRs are accepted.

“At the end of the year, the top 15 of the TCR World Tour and the top 45 of the TCR World Ranking will meet for a world final.”

Source; https://www.touringcars.net/2022/11/...d-tour-in-2023

I assume Coronel will stay at the Belgian team for one or both series.

[Petoli]

My understanding of the world tour is that the entrants will join the grid of the regional and national TCR series.

So for example

R1 - TCR Germany - Hockenheim
R2 - TCR Europe - SPA
R3 - TCR UK - Donington Park
R4 - TCR Eastern Europe - Hungoring
R5 - TCR Italy - Monza
R6 - TCR South America - Interlagos
R7 - TCR Austrlia - Bathurst
R8 - TCR Japan - Suzuka
R9 - TCR Asia - Macau

Drivers who enter those rounds score world tour points so you would have some of the top TCR drivers dropping in and out of the National TCR series

So one weekend you would have Tom Coronel, Yvan Muller, Tiago Montiero, Norbert Michelisz racing in TCR Denmark one week and the week after at Croft for TCR UK

The idea sound great on paper. and that would be a good concept

But why do i get the impression that the 1st 6 events will just be held alongside TCR Europe, 1 at Bathurst alongside TCR Australia and then they join TCR Asia at Shanghai and Macau for the final 2 races

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

you're mistaken

DTM banned Turbos follwing the 1989 season so no turbo's after that

there were 2.0 L cars on the DTM 1990 grid , those were the old Opel Kadett of Team Schübel but no turbos and they didn't even finish the season

Don't get too picky...i know, this were different years. But i meaned in general the different approaches in Gr.A era.

There was also BoP, which is always something to complain about...

[NaBUru38]

El Pinar is planned to be revamped for next year.

If the project is done on time, the TCR Tour and Stock Car Brasil are set to visit us on August 13.

https://motoresenpunta.com/una-fecha-13-de-agosto/

[Rubio]

Bathurst to host a TCR World Tour race next year:
https://www.tcr-series.com/news/item...-event-in-2023

[S griffin]

Can't think of many more appropriate places to host a round at.

[FIRE]

Bathurst

[samchevron]

In a TCR Australia piece, they confirmed the following after speaking with Lotti at the Bathurst International:

"The TCR World Tour will debut in 2023, taking in nine rounds at some of the world’s most iconic touring car venues.

The TCR World Tour will visit four continents in 2023, with four rounds in Europe, two in America, one in Asia and two in Australia."

Link: https://tcraustralia.com/2022/11/12/...international/

However, on the TCR site, they stated a second Australian event was being negotiated.

Hopefully we'll hear more after the WTCR finale this weekend.

[samchevron]

After speaking to Lotti during this years Bathurst International, TCR Australia put the following out:

The worldwide boss of the popular turbocharged category also confirmed that WSC and ARG will host a second round in Australia, with parties in discussions with numerous other circuits about the opportunity to host the second TCR World Tour race in Australia later next year.

The TCR World Tour will debut in 2023, taking in nine rounds at some of the world’s most iconic touring car venues.

The TCR World Tour will visit four continents in 2023, with four rounds in Europe, two in America, one in Asia and two in Australia.

The International TCR drivers and teams will compete alongside national and domestic TCR series, including Australia, pitching the world’s best against the local entrants.

Link for the full article:
https://tcraustralia.com/2022/11/12/...international/

[samchevron]

After speaking to Lotti during this years Bathurst International, TCR Australia put the following out:

The worldwide boss of the popular turbocharged category also confirmed that WSC and ARG will host a second round in Australia, with parties in discussions with numerous other circuits about the opportunity to host the second TCR World Tour race in Australia later next year.

The TCR World Tour will debut in 2023, taking in nine rounds at some of the world’s most iconic touring car venues.

The TCR World Tour will visit four continents in 2023, with four rounds in Europe, two in America, one in Asia and two in Australia.

The International TCR drivers and teams will compete alongside national and domestic TCR series, including Australia, pitching the world’s best against the local entrants.

Link for the full article:
https://tcraustralia.com/2022/11/12/tcr-world-tour-confirms-round-at-the-2023-supercheap-auto-bathurst-international/

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by Petoli

But why do i get the impression that the 1st 6 events will just be held alongside TCR Europe

Well, would you look at that.

That's a bit weak really. I was hoping they'd combine with TCR Germany & Italy at least.

[Northern Monkey]

People may struggle to take the rankings seriously after the latest update...

[NaBUru38]

Algarve is two weeks before the WEC race.

Spa-Francorchamps is one week after the 24h Nürburgring.

Hungaroring is two weeks before the F1 Austrian GP.

The TCR is working hard not to get noticed.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

People may struggle to take the rankings seriously after the latest update...

What do you mean "after"?

I mean I get what they are trying to do, but I still wonder what's the point. It's all built around a complicated formula that will be manna for any true stats nerds, but throws up enough anomalies to make it difficult explain to the casual observer.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by redshoes

What do you mean "after"?

Valid point...

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by pimmy

Well, would you look at that.

That's a bit weak really. I was hoping they'd combine with TCR Germany & Italy at least.

I would rather they go to another Asian circuit like Bangsaen or another round of TCR China, instead of Macau. If entries are open/travel restrictions are easy enough by next year, the GP will find a large(-ish) international grid regardless if it's attached to a major series, so may as well promote and give visibility to another event instead...

I'm also concerned that the calendar is so focused on TCR Europe, feels like it could end up harming grids rather than helping.

[NaBUru38]

Macau is a massive event, of course it's a good idea to be there (other than the authoritarian government).