2010 IndyCar Schedule

[JagtechOhio]

In an interview on Monday, Bricoe talks at length about what a beautiful facility Barber is, and about the ONE corner where he thinks the passing can take place.

Pocono has lots of tradition. Some of those bumps have been there for forty years now...and the tradition grows. A Nascar driver was asked recently about running two events there during the season. His reply: "Why do we have to go to Pocono at all?"

[AndrewF31]

I've heard of Watkins Glen's fame but when I followed CART back in the 90s they didn't go to the circuit and it was one of the few tracks, along with Sears Point/Sonoma where NASCAR went and Indy didn't so I just found it strange.

I've never been against ovals and they have provided some nice races in the past but I'm a road racer fan myself and a good balance is important as we're talking about single seaters and it would be just strange for these cars to only run in circles.

I like Jonerz's dream schedule. Totally forgot about Fontana. Remembered Michigan but just missed Fontana. Don't understand why those 2 mega-ovals have disappeared from the radar.
But you've taken out quite a few of the circuits which are probably in there for a reason (9!): St. Petersburg, Barber, Kansas, Texas, Iowa, Sears Point, Chicago, Kentucky and Homestead
And you added quite a few (12!): Fontana, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Montreal, Michigan, Elkhart Lake, New Hampshire, Australia (Gold Coast), Phoenix, Vancouver, and Laguna Seca

As I've not watched much Indy cars lately, I don't understand the beef against Chicago. I remember it was a small oval but the place was packed back in the 90s CART years, being in the Chicago-area and all.

Really pathetic if that's the reason why Surfers is out. Indy has gotta cut the umbilical cord they reattached with NASCAR. NASCAR is like FIA: they'll try to destroy any series that tries to steal their limelight if they have the power.

I'd prefer having Road America or Cleveland over Barber and Sears Point. It just made things worse by what Bricoe said. Who is Bricoe? Or did you mean Briscoe? It's just silly to get this track over other better ones when it only has 1 passing corner. Someone is getting a nice payment for this spot!

[JagtechOhio]

Sorry, my lousy spelling. The interview was at Indycar .com, transcript of discussion between Carpenter, Briscoe, and Barnhart. Long article, and informative on a variety of topics.

Teams tested at Barber earlier this year, and the lack of passing opportunities was evident then. So I'm left to assume, like you Andrew, that the money rules the day.

Nobody from Talledega, 100 miles away, is going to go watch them dern fancy pants boys follow each other around for an hour and a half. Now if Danica shows up in a pair of them Daisy Duke shorts....

Nothing against Alabamans, or women race car drivers, or pants, be they fancy or short.. It's just a quizzical selection, when apparently there are many other venues that should be given consideration.

[johntt]

Heres my ideal schedule:

1.Rio street circuit - the site of the old Rio Track has been turned into an athletics complex and there was talk of them building a semi-permanent track there. A number of leading drivers in the series are from there as well.

2. Mexico City - Fast, wide, bumpy and dusty.

*Sebring weekend*

3. Phoenix - classic open wheel oval

4. Miami street circuit - make a track that has its frontstretch one of the main beaches and where a wide course can be built.

5. Texas - I'm thinking a temporary track on an airport, like the Cleveland of the South.

6. Long Beach - Maybe look at remodelling the section after the back straight to improve the racing.

7. Indianapolis - the month of May and all that, on Memorial Day weekend as tradition dictates.

8. Milwaukee - the traditional post-Indy race.

9. Watkins Glen - Classic American road course

*Le Mans weekend*

10. Rockingham UK - a great track, needs a bit of an upgrade and some good promotion.

11. Cleveland - Independence Day weekend.

12. Road America - another great road course.

13. Mid-Ohio - needs widening, otherwise its fine.

14. New Hampshire - another great open-wheel oval.

15. Toronto - Canada's Long Beach , reaches the Anglophone part of Canada

16. Montreal - On the same weekend as the Nascar, a good way to reach the Francophone part of Canada

17. Michigan - 500 miles. Labour Day Weekend. Done.

18. Portland - a good track in the Pacific NW

*Petit Le Mans Weekend*

19. Surfers Paradise - classic Australian street track, plenty of Anzac drivers for the locals to root for like Rio.

20. Laguna Seca - see Mid-Ohio

21. Fontana - 500 mile finale, end of season awards banquet in Hollywood the next day.

[JagtechOhio]

I'd say that's a few of us from different points on the globe that are generally thinking in the same direction.

re Montreal: My thoughts exactly, when one poster wrote in that they were only capable of hosting two events a year. If F1 comes back, fine. If IRL runs the same weekend as the Canadian NASCAR show, even finer.

I'm not so sure about Mexico City though, I don't think there is the local fervor or the national economic health to hit a home run there. I made that trip once with CASC Formula Atlantic. Once was too many times for me.

[Jonerz]

@Jag : The support that the IndyCars received in their first open test at Barber was the selling point. The League was in love. The promoter has found $$ and that is all the IRL needed to hear, and with AOWR in its current state that is probably not a bad thing to be looking for.

@AndrewF1 : Chicago of CART was a different oval. The current Chicagoland racetrack is a 1.5 mile NASCAR cookie-cutter and severing ties from NASCAR is the best route possible. Now, I will be directed to look at the finish of Chicagoland 2003 - yes, very exciting but I tend to prefer races like Michigan 2000, and 1999, and 1998... well, you get the idea. It's one thing to get the IRL cars at 650bhp 675kilos to race side-by-side (or race su-i-cide if you will) but proper passes like those classic CART hanford races are safer and more exciting in my eyes.

As for the current tracks I left off of my dream schedule:

St. Petersburg - don't particularly like it, never a great racetrack, however there must be some reason why ALMS runs there RIGHT after the Sebring 12 Hour. (My guess is Acura $$)
Barber - no passing zones
Kansas - this year the race was bad (but that doesn't mean it is always bad), not sure what attendance is like either.
Texas - probably deserves a spot because of fan support. But, the IndyCar series that races my ideal schedule in my brain would have CART-style G-force problems, and 2011, 2012, 2013 ("new car") IndyCars may run into similar problems (part of me says hopefully, part of me says hopefully not).
Iowa - probably deserves a spot due to attendance. Leary of D shaped short ovals with more banking than Milwaukee.
Sears Point - hate the layout; crowds?
Chicago - see above comments on Chicago.
Kentucky - not sure the crowd numbers, wouldn't mind keeping it if the track isn't NASCARized by Bruton Smith. Interchangeable with Vegas in my mind so long as it isn't NASCARized.
Homestead - Much like Iowa I am leary of banked (in this case egg shaped) ovals with too much banking - doesn't suit IndyCars.

The question for every track is where is the appeal? And where is the money?

Chris

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by johntt

Heres my ideal schedule:[EDITED BY JONERZ FOR SPACE]

Really dig your schedule man, well thought out. I have obviously opined and showed where my cards lie, but I think we are very much of the same vein. I especially like the breaks for major sportscar events. Every series in the world should stop for the Le Mans break, and certainly every U.S. based series should stop for Sebring and PLM - but I'm extremely biased.

Chris

[JagtechOhio]

Thanks Chris,

That's great if the practice was well received locally, but it probably didn't cost too much beer money to get in.

The $$ you revealed is confirmation of the reason behind the selection...which will always be an overriding concern, and the one which I could only speculate about. The same is likely true with other events on the finalized 2010 schedule.

Isn't that the reason why someplace like Iowa gets a race?

Agreed about johntt's schedule...that is truly World Stage.


JTO (my name is Andy, but I don't want to create confusion in here).

[Purist]

I actually find St. Petersburg to be quite good for a temporary circuit. The runway means you have plenty of room to do things down into Turn 1, and the tricky first few corners often help set up passing maneuvers into Turn 4.

Mexico City is a good circuit. If they need a SAFER barrier to run Peraltada without the chicane, then put one in. Other than that, the place is fine for racing. It would help if we had Moreno, Diaz, Fernandez, Jordain, etc racing in the series.

The old IMSA Bicentennial Park circuit in Miami (1985-94) wouldn't be a bad choice.

I agree that the bike layout at Sears Point is awful. They need to find a way to run the sportscar configuration if they're going to continue at that venue.

For the ovals, and in general really, the cars need more power with less drag. You need that sort of set-up for the passing to work at Michigan like it did for CART. Also, this would allow the Indy Cars to hit perhaps 175-180mph on the back side of Barber (giving them a real braking zone there), whereas now they probably can't top 155-160mph at that track.

[JagtechOhio]

Hi Purist,

Unlike Brazil, Oz or Canada, I couldn't think of a local hero for the Mexico race. One less reason to go there.

Hmm, I wonder whatever happened to Rogelio Rodriguez, anyway?
I know Josele is giving sailing lessons. The others aren't likely to be in the seat, either.

[Purist]

I forgot to say this, but I really don't think Mid Ohio or Laguna Seca need widening. In both cases, it's really just the twisty, sinuous nature of the track that makes it seem narrower, when in reality, a place like Watkins Glen or Road America is no wider than the aforementioned road courses.

Also, widening a place like Laguna would totally change the character of the fast corners going up and then back downhill on the latter half of the lap. Those corners leave the cars more on edge, as should be the case. Also, that fast uphill left before the Corkscrew being narrow forces you to watch your understeer/snap oversteer that much more. So widening wouldn't be an improvement, and it's very doubtful that overtaking would be made any more possible either.

At Mid Ohio, the esses would be radically different. With the layout of the course, you wouldn't really be able to make use of the extra width in Turns 4-6 anyway, and the spectators I'm sure enjoy the tight-quarters action there as they watch from the mounds. And a wider Turn 4 would be faster, which would hurt overtaking at the end of the backstretch. Turns 7 and 8 over he next brow would be eased though, which would make that section easier. You would have more room to settle the car after the crest, and have a wider Turn 9 down into Thunder Valley. This would take away from the challenge of that section, while also making sudden overtakes due to errors much less likely to occur into Turn 9. Finally, widening would make Thunder Valley easier to negotiate.

Edit: Jag, I was simply commenting on the merits of the track. I understand though that not having a local in the race makes it quite a bit less appealing to visit.

[JagtechOhio]

Purist,

Yes, I'm quite familiar with both venues... but the intimate knowledge of negotiating their features was in the toolbox of the drivers I worked for. I was leaning on mine.

I can add this, though: when exploited by the talents of a legendary driver, Laguna Seca can be infinitely wide. Point me to the best corner at Mid Ohio, and I will patiently wait for one of these many followers to emerge as a leader this Sunday.

[Jacques Rabbit]

IMO, the schedule should include:

Road Course
Road America
Road Atlanta
Mont-Tremblant
Portland
Laguna Seca
Watkins Glen
Mid-Ohio
Donington/Algarve/other European circuit

Temporary
Gold Coast
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
Long Beach
Las Vegas

Ovals
Indy
Milwaukee
NHMS
Phoenix
Pocono
Rockingham (UK, not the US one)

[AndrewF31]

Thanks for the explanation Jonerz. I vote also to get rid of Chicagoland. Anything linked to NASCAR should be banished!

I'd keep Mexico out of it for now. It was different a few years ago with guys like Jourdain and Fernandez in the championship but they still had problems building up the crowds.

Why go to the UK so soon in the re-building phase? Can't remember how well the race did in CART times but how much fan base exists in Europe for indy car?

Danica can drive around in the Daisy Duke all year-round. It would help all rounds!

[JagtechOhio]

Everybody here has better selections than the ones we get to see now. That even extends to wardrobe...as a fellow Andrew, we share the same eye for talent.

U.S., Canada, Brazil, Japan and Australia would be a great Stage One. Not knowing about the acceptance of IRL in the European market at this day, I might be tempted to hold off until Stage Two... and put a two race package in at that point as well, to heighten enthusiasm in the E.U. and disperse the travel expense from the U.S. You guys would know where the fan interest would be greatest and the venue most appropriate: I just want to watch.

It's getting pretty close to the point when we drop this in the lap of some IRL poobah, don't you think? I'm going to print this thread out, and shove it in the hand of the toppest dog at IRL I can find at Mid Ohio this Sunday. At least they won't be able to say they're not getting enough fan input...whether they pay attention or not.

[Purist]

Well, it may be early to do something right now, but the series does feature a Dutchman, and a few Englishmen, so Europe shouldn't be overlooked entirely.

However, getting into more good venues here at home ought to be a higher priority at the moment.

[awrb]

As a Brit who'd love to see IndyCars here (Donington, preferably), I'd have to say that it would be best to wait a few years and for the IRL to concentrate on America. Fly away races are great for the fans here, but for the teams to get sponsors, they either need to go all out and make an international series, which would be very hard, and attract big sponsors who wants the world to see their name, or go for a national series and get the sponsors who want American exposure. A national series would therefore make it cheaper, and surely attract more sponsors as it gives a more concentrated area of exposure.

So maybe worry about overseas races when the series is up and running properly in the US.

Would love to see these cars at Donnington though.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

No Milwaukee? Hmm... it really turns me off of the series. Of course, they haven't been at Michigan and Fontana in ages, and those tracks in my mind must be a part of the triple crown of 500 milers.

Ideal IndyCar schedule

1. Long Beach
2. Fontana
3. Las Vegas
4. Indianapolis
5. Milwaukee
6. Cleveland
7. Toronto
8. Montreal
9. Michigan
10. Mid-Ohio
11. Elkhart Lake
12. New Hampshire
13. Edmonton
14. Watkins Glen
15. Australia (Gold Coast)
16. Motegi
17. Phoenix
18. Vancouver
19. Rio Oval
20. Laguna Seca



Chris

I like this too, although it's a little heavy on the ovals for me (I say 2 max). I am pretty pumped about the Barber race though. It will be nice to have Indycars within 10 hours drive of Atlanta.

[JagtechOhio]

Hi J,

There have been a few mentions for Road Atlanta, mine among them. Doesn't that compare favorably to Barber, with its' proximity to the metropolitan area? Opportunity for better competiton?

If the scedule is to be close to 50% ovals...which is a bit of overkill to me too, but might be considered as a necessary evil...at least a couple should be on the front end before Indy as in Jonerz' schedule. "Old school" was the ovals at Phoenix and Atlanta leading into the Month of May: racecar and driver development was focused in one direction (literally). Next year, Indy will have only one circle track race preceding it.

Not having been a fan for recent years, can somebody give me the short version of why New Hampshire stands above any other of the ten or so short ovals it compares with? I'm not getting that one, and it does not have the tradition or population center to make it a big show.

Purist and awrb, I agree with you both too about European venues, but as the outgrowth of the Series from a more solid foundation.

PS to Jacques: please tell me about Mont-Treblant, I am not familiar.

[Alwaysfirst]

Just my 2 cents...

I always want a longer schedule so mine is 26 races & I've tried to justify most of them...

1-St Petersburg. Well attended & relatively good street circuit with (sometimes) good weather.

2-Phoenix. One track that should be back on the calendar. A great track with great history…just don’t let the NASCAR guys do the promotion…

3-Adelaide. Surfers’ doesn’t fit the schedule. Adelaide does & is an even better track with a huge attendance of nearly 400,000 for the V8 weekend there. Combine that with the Indy race & see how it goes…

4-Long Beach. Needs to be on the schedule just for old times sake, if nothing else.

5-Barber. They want Indycars there. They will pay for Indycars to be there. 30,000 came to view a test session. With a couple of small modifications it could be a great race based on everything we’ve seen so far.

6-Kansas. 1.5 mile cookie-cutter…but one of the better ones IMO. Now that Indycars can pass again it should at least be a good race.

7-Mid-Ohio. Should be on the calendar but as far away as possible from Cleveland so that both races can attract good crowds.

8-Indianapolis 500. Nothing needs saying here…

9-Kentucky. Race last week showed that Indycars can race well here. As NASCAR is still showing no signs of going there then they should be promoting the hell out of the Indycars…

10-Fort Worth. The only track like it on the calendar & again, they want Indycars racing there. The crowds are ok & the racing is generally great.

11-Portland. A market that needs to be exploited…

12-Edmonton. A great track that produces good racing & seems to be well attended most of the time.

13-Iowa. A good crowd & a slightly unique track.

14-Road America. Indycars should be racing here & RA should be making it happen. A track this good should be on the calendar…no excuses.

15-Mont Tremblant. A great track that was reasonably well attended for CCWS. It should be given a go IMO…the Canadians support the races really well & as such they shouldn’t be ignored. If not here then race in Montreal…but in this slot the FIA guys would moan that it was clashing with the F1 (if it does return)

16-Loudon. No Milwaukee due to $$$. Then as Loudon wants to be on the schedule put them on it. Crowds in the CART days were ok & the racing is good & there should be a flattish 1 mile oval somewhere on the calendar.

17-Toronto. One of the best street tracks there is & when AGR aren’t ruining the organizing one of the best attended as well. There’s no excuses for this race being a flop…

18-Cleveland. A classic that has always produced good racing. Needs to be better promoted though to make it worthwhile.

19-Pocono. They are suggesting that they would be interested in having Indycars race there, a big change from their old stance. If they make the needed changes (in their best interests if they want to keep NASCAR & gain Indycar) then put it on the schedule as part of the Triple-Crown of 500-milers.

20-Watkins Glen. One of the best road courses in the Americas. Keep it on the schedule!!!

21-Richmond. A popular race that is reasonably attended. The racing isn’t bad (usually). Both sides need to try harder to make this work…

22-Chicagoland. The racing is almost always spectacular. The crowds are ok. This race should be a keeper…

23-Rio de Janeiro. So many Brazilians in a series using Brazilian fuel. RACE IN BRAZIL THEN!!! The Brazilians love their motor racing & wherever they race I can see it being well attented.

24-Mexico City. Mexicans will only bring their $$$ to the series if there is a Mexican race on the schedule. So put one on the schedule! Almost always well attended with good racing…just put a SAFER barrier around Peraltada. The area around the track has always been poor, even when F1 ran there but the fans keep showing up so theres no reason why it shouldn’t be there…& the Mexicans seem to like open-wheel more than NASCAR…

25-Texas World Speedway. Needs big work…BUT is the sister track to Michigan, just with higher banking & it isn’t an ISC track. If the work is done make it the 3rd part of the Triple Crown & promote the hell out of it. Failing this Fontana would also work nicely but NASCAR doesn’t seem to want to share…

26-Las Vegas. A good oval to end the year, owned by SMI so it should be reasonably Indy friendly. Hold the end of season awards the next day in Las Vegas.


IMO this schedule would help expand the current markets that the IRL is in whilst trying to expand into new ones. In a couple of years I'd suggest a trip over to the UK (Rockingham) and the Netherlands (Assen/Zandvoort) as I feel both would be well supported. Having a schedule this size allows the expansion to happen whilst continuing in its American core markets...assuming that the economy picks up in a couple of years IMO it would be nice to see something like this happen.

[JagtechOhio]

Always,

Many great thoughts in your lineup, and it seems most of us are generally on the same page.

The current capability of running a schedule of that length is not realistic in my opinion. With several entrants unable to run the full schedule as it stands now, it seems more logical to work for a cap number of maybe 20 dates at the outside.

I'd also have to think that Montegi is a keeper and serves as the stepping stone to a race in Oz, whichever specific location offers the best of circumstances.

Mexico City is a tough sell, I don't see the payoff.

If you agree with any of the above, wanna chop some off and post a revised list?

This Sunday's general admission and paddock passes for me and my girlfriend totals $150.00. I'll be watching to see if 30,000 show up at Barber when the gate is $75.00 a head.

[gomick]

3-Adelaide. Surfers’ doesn’t fit the schedule. Adelaide does & is an even better track with a huge attendance of nearly 400,000 for the V8 weekend there. Combine that with the Indy race & see how it goes…

Sadly to say, the V8's dont need Indy Cars, they wouldnt even need F1 - tho, it is a great track...

23-Rio de Janeiro...

Does this track still exist?

Good calender though, imagine 26 races

[Mr Pink]

I'm not so shure 26 races would be as good as it sounds, I don't think the crowds are there to support that amount of events. Empty stands, empty living rooms..

Other than that there's some nice ideas in there!

And also I was thinking about a race in Europe (which I think should wait til the series has a good domestic base to stand on). As much as i would love to see the IRL at for example Donnington, wouldn't it be a better choice to go to Rockingham? That way they would create something that currently doesn't exist in Europe instead of competing with F1, GP2, WSbR, Superleague etc.

[Jonerz]

I'm not sure it was 30 grand at Barber for the test, I think it was more like 10 grand. Regardless, for an open test that is probably one of the most attended in the history of motorsport. If they flocked for an open test, a well promoted race should do the trick.

@Andy (Jagtech) : New Hampshire is a perfect track for IndyCars. I find that watching the IndyCars go side-by-side on a 1.5 mile oval is simply frightening. Yes, it is fantastic to watch side-by-side racing but that is for boys with fenders. It is suicide for open-wheelers to go side-by-side. Tracks where the IndyCars can run-up a tremendous amount of speed on the straights and have to brake into the corners, therefore providing passing opportunities are the best. Flat tracks are great for IndyCars, Pocono I thought was a no-no amongst IndyCar brass for some strange reason, but if it could be done I think the IndyCars would put a great show on there because it is flat, long, and fast. But that is a bit of a digression. New Hampshire is fairly flat, and would require high-powered IndyCars to brake into the corners, it has a history of good races, and the North East needs to be tapped into - much like the North West.

Chris

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

PS to Jacques: please tell me about Mont-Treblant, I am not familiar.

Champ Car ran a race there in 2007, you can see some footage of it here: http://tinyurl.com/llxgg3. It isn't the best for overtaking, but it's a gorgeous circuit, in my opinion at least. It also gets the IRL in Québec, considering that Montréal isn't a possibility with Formula 1 looking likely to make a return in 2010. The only concern, of course, is attendance. Without a French-Canadian like Alex Tagliani or Andrew Ranger, it might be hard to sell seats, and I'm not really sure how the CCWS race did there in 2007 considering there are probably more trees than seats to be had.

For the most part, though, I wasn't thinking entirely logically about my schedule in terms of what areas make sense to go to, but rather what would be ideal for the future, assuming they get a good chassis and engine formula. Going to Europe now would be a bit tough, though when Champ Car went to Zolder and Assen in 07, they were the highest-attended events that year, and the teams seemed to manage fine (because the car and engine were cheap, unlike the Dallara-Honda, so costs were lower to begin with).