Good bye Michigan - Page 2

luke · 21 Jul 2007, 15:38 (Ref:1969206)

Within 2 years I believe probably half the races will be non oval such is the way things are going. At IRL forums from what I have read there is an uproar, it isn't very popular among most IRL fans.

mountainstar · 21 Jul 2007, 17:59 (Ref:1969294)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Within 2 years I believe probably half the races will be non oval such is the way things are going. At IRL forums from what I have read there is an uproar, it isn't very popular among most IRL fans.

Oh I doubt it would be popular considering what the irl was formed for in the beginning anyways.

Dutton · 22 Jul 2007, 04:29 (Ref:1969591)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Within 2 years I believe probably half the races will be non oval such is the way things are going. At IRL forums from what I have read there is an uproar, it isn't very popular among most IRL fans.

Well, OTOH, it could attract new fans. I guess the demographic may change. I guess the problem for the IRL is that NASCAR has taken over the ovals so much that most people will go see that for their oval needs. This pushes the IRL more towards street.road events in the interests of staying afloat. It was a similar story for CART/ChampCar I believe, although the dropping of ovals nowhere near as huge an issue as with the IRL: the same issues remain, though. I will complete this paragraph by making clear all this is nothing but pure speculation.

It is difficult, really. Damned either way, I would imagine.

luke · 22 Jul 2007, 10:10 (Ref:1969750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

Well, OTOH, it could attract new fans. I guess the demographic may change. I guess the problem for the IRL is that NASCAR has taken over the ovals so much that most people will go see that for their oval needs. This pushes the IRL more towards street.road events in the interests of staying afloat. It was a similar story for CART/ChampCar I believe, although the dropping of ovals nowhere near as huge an issue as with the IRL: the same issues remain, though. I will complete this paragraph by making clear all this is nothing but pure speculation.

It is difficult, really. Damned either way, I would imagine.

I personally doubt that Dutton. I do wonder what the road and street races have brought to the IRL. They haven't been a hit yet. Because Michigan never got that good attendances they go to Belle Isle instead. Short term there maybe more fans but street terms are an investments because you don't make money in the first few years.

The IRL was formed around all ovals, if they go 50/50 then that's half of the root gone and lacking imo.

But if that's the route the IRL is going down then good luck to them. IMO it's not doing the series any gains for what the product is.

Hazza · 22 Jul 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1969784)

Wow it's amazing the conclusions you can draw from a bunch of Champcar fans talking about how IRL sucks in the IRL forum.

Marvels of modern technology.

luke · 22 Jul 2007, 14:29 (Ref:1970066)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazza

Wow it's amazing the conclusions you can draw from a bunch of Champcar fans talking about how IRL sucks in the IRL forum.

Hey Hazza no one is bashing IRL or saying it sucks

It's true, what has the non ovals brought to the series? Like I said before the series should have stayed 100% oval and try to get the ovals to work or more and use that to gain exposure. It's an oval based series that for over 100 races was 100% oval.

And you shouldn't just label people 'champ car' fans then again you have been an ardent irl supporter and cc 'basher' (as you like to say).

Dutton · 23 Jul 2007, 04:23 (Ref:1970767)

I would be interested, Hazza, to have you elaborate on that claim.

If it was directed at me at all, then I would request that you re-read my posts. I have not been deriding the IRL whatsoever.

deejay · 23 Jul 2007, 09:49 (Ref:1970973)

The decision here seems to be that MIS wanted the race in July, but July already has a packed schedule for the IRL. Pretty simple impasse. They would have to give up the Mid-Ohio race - which is a successful addiiton.

I don't think the presence of Belle Isle on the schedule has anything to do with it from the IRL perspective, as that's not where the schedule conflict is.

I'd like to know what the conditions MIS put down for an August race were...

Hazza · 23 Jul 2007, 13:22 (Ref:1971133)

I'm just having a laugh guys. Chill.

Knowlesy · 23 Jul 2007, 19:56 (Ref:1971434)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

It's true, what has the non ovals brought to the series? Like I said before the series should have stayed 100% oval and try to get the ovals to work or more and use that to gain exposure. It's an oval based series that for over 100 races was 100% oval.

Non-ovals have added nothing. On the other hand, though, they have not taken away anything either.

deejay · 24 Jul 2007, 05:30 (Ref:1971717)

Well, non-ovals have added a lot of interest to the series for me.

Not insignificantly because the driver I follow in the series is a road racer no doubt...

Also, I imagine, because we don't get champcar on telly here, so I don't get another chance to see American OW on road circuits...

Nevertheless, that's just proof that adding different types of tracks is enhancing the global appeal of the series.

D.R.T. · 24 Jul 2007, 09:10 (Ref:1971846)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejay

The decision here seems to be that MIS wanted the race in July, but July already has a packed schedule for the IRL.

I'd like to know what the conditions MIS put down for an August race were...

According to a previous article there was a deal made after last years race that the IRL backed out on.

jab · 26 Jul 2007, 21:59 (Ref:1974403)

This is coming from an outsider looking in here using what little knowledge I have (in comparison to you guys, I'm sure)...

I've seen a couple of IRL road races (Infineon last year, Watkins Glen this year) and read about a few others, and nearly all of them have been complete processions. I just think that the series is wasting its time on road courses because it was formed, as has already been mentioned, as an oval racing series. Bring in road courses adds very little the series - there are road course specialists, like Dixon and Helio, who benefit more, whilst there aren't really any particular oval specialists, so it gives them an inherent advantage in the championship chase. Helpful to the series?

The more road courses they add the closer they get to Champ Car ground, and fighting them on their own turf will only cause problems for both. Road course-wise the IRL will lose out because in general the racing is better for Champ Car, presumably because they have more road course specalist drivers

Surely it would be a better solution for Champ Car to stick with only road courses (as they are currently doing) and the IRL with ovals? IMO it would be the best solution other than a merger

deejay · 26 Jul 2007, 23:42 (Ref:1974452)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Bring in road courses adds very little the series - there are road course specialists, like Dixon and Helio, who benefit more, whilst there aren't really any particular oval specialists,

If you aren't a road course specialist, and you aren't an oval course specialist, what are you? Crap?

This "specialist" thing is a bit silly. The best drivers in the series do well on both types of circuit.

jab · 27 Jul 2007, 10:01 (Ref:1974646)

I guess I worded it slightly

What I mean is there are drivers who are a cut above on road courses, but there aren't really any drivers who are a cut above on ovals - they're all pretty much even. This gives the advantage in the championship to the road course specialists

JohnSSC · 27 Jul 2007, 10:02 (Ref:1974647)

The type of circuit didn't seem to hurt guys like Mansell or DeFerran or the Unsers or Donohue or Castroneves...

luke · 27 Jul 2007, 11:16 (Ref:1974707)

in 1993 in CART Mansell won 5 of 6 races on the ovals. Although I think that was becaue on the non ovals the Penskes had the chassis advantage over the Lola.

If a driver is good enough they can be good on surfaces that are new to them.

That's why I don't rate Duno, Fisher etc.

jab · 27 Jul 2007, 11:34 (Ref:1974714)

Obviously

But what I'm saying is guys like Dixon and Helio are good on road courses and ovals. Guys like Hornish and Wheldon are as good as them on ovals but aren't as good as them on road courses (most of the time - however Sam is improving). As there are more road courses in the championship now they lose out more - it wasn't such a factor last year because there were only 3 road courses, but this year there are 5, and now they're further back, behind Dixon who has won 2 out of the 3 road course rounds this season - that's 2 out of his 3 wins

I think if the number of road courses on the calendar continues to increase then it'll continue to be drivers like Dario, Dixon and Helio fighting for the title each year

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