[WEC] Gordon Murray T.50 Hypercar

[TF110]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Gordon Murray evaluating WEC hypercar entry with T.50

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...y-t50/4602969/

Gordon Murray Said:

*He has already met with WEC promoter and Le Mans 24 Hours organiser the Automobile Club de l'Ouest and the FIA.
*we have had some customers who are very interested in racing the car.
*We are about to announce very soon a tie-up with an F1 team for the use a wind-tunnel in the development of the T.50.
*he revealed that he planned to meet with GT racing boss Stephane Ratel so that he can "understand what the general thinking is on the direction of sportscar racing".
*Deliveries of the 100 T.50 road cars, which will be powered by a bespoke four-litre V12 built by Cosworth, will take place through 2022, but Murray didn't rule out having a hypercar racer out on track earlier.
*he also expressed reservations about the 1100kg minimum weight for the hypercar class. The T.50 road car will weigh 980kg, while a track day version of which 25 examples will be built is due to hit the scales at 890kg.
"A racing version of the T.50 would probably come out at about 900kg, so bolting in a couple of hundred kilogrammes of ballast doesn't appeal".

This right here is really important. More voices against the ridiculous minimum weight the better. I voiced my opinion about it being too high on the twitter and got a nice 'like' from a certain member of the Brabham family

[Mike E]

Yeah, it's garbage.

[S griffin]

I really hope it works for Gordon, his car certainly won't be dull. It'll be one to watch

[Juntos]

Will Gordon find the finance to match Toyota or Peugeot? I do doubt.

In times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings--artists, scientists, clowns and philosophers--to create order.

[Adam43]

Clearly. You don’t need to be clever to realise that.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Will Gordon find the finance to match Toyota or Peugeot? I do doubt.

In times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings--artists, scientists, clowns and philosophers--to create order.

How about ones to create and at the same time do create race winning cars?

[Mike E]

It's a BoP formula and we haven't even seen the 'rules' yet, such as they may be. If Gordon Murray designs and builds a Cosworth-engined hypercar, with the intention of competing at Le Mans, performance will be in the ball park. Finding a team to run it properly might be the difference between success and, errr, not-success.

[Juntos]

I can't see Gordon's new toy showing up in the grid in first place.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Juntos

I can't see Gordon's new toy showing up in the grid in first place.

For what reason? Other than in my eyes he will NEVER add weight so the insanely high minimum weights won't fly with him.

[Mike Bell]

Reading the whole article on that motorsport.com link few posts back, Murray says “Because the new rules are based on performance balancing, hopefully there would be some way for us to run lighter but with less power”.......

Hope it happens- I’m a more optimistic than some posters seem to be!

[Deleted]

Yes the min weight rule doesn't make any sense given it's nothing more than a BoP Class now. GTE's 1245kg "minimum weight" was a joke too when none of the cars actually run to it, Aston was 1175kg etc

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

For what reason? Other than in my eyes he will NEVER add weight so the insanely high minimum weights won't fly with him.

I would not be surprised if Gordon Murray has figured out a way to run under weight during the race and adding weight late in the race.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Will Gordon find the finance to match Toyota or Peugeot? I do doubt.

In times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings--artists, scientists, clowns and philosophers--to create order.

Maybe the ACO should eliminate the LMP2 in the WEC and at 24H LM, and replace it with a Hypercar AM in the same style as GTE PRO and GTE AM. Really a Spec category like LMP2 brings nothing and the gentelman drivers could contribute a lot to the development of some Hypercars.
In addition to this Gordon Murray T50, could be available cars like McLaren Senna GTR, Brabham BT62, future Lambo Hypercar track only, Pagani Huayra R, ...... Also could be some Glikenhaus more and some money for the finally appearance of Valkyrie.

[TF110]

Half of those cars are slower than GTE's except on the straights. They need purpose built hypercars that race and then make a street version if they so desire. Sorta like the Mercedes CLK GTR.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

Half of those cars are slower than GTE's except on the straights. They need purpose built hypercars that race and then make a street version if they so desire. Sorta like the Mercedes CLK GTR.

Surely you are right and there could be some difference between the different cars but anyway that would be much more interesting than the LMP2.
Remembering what happened in the best years of the GT1:

Le Mans 1995
Best GT1 Ferrari F40 3:55.150
Worst GT1 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 4:27.890
Le Mans 1996
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 3:47.132
Worst GT1 Chrysler Viper GTS-R 4:11.014
Le Mans 1997
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 EVO 3:43.363
Worst GT1 Lotus Elise GT1 3:51.373
Le Mans 1998
Best GT1 Mercedes CLK LM 3:35.544
Worst GT1 McLaren F1 GTR 3:50.863

https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying

The difference was enormous in the first years, it was reduced with the emergence of more developed models and there was no BOP at that time.
I honestly don't think the difference is so big now. And those were the years of the most beautiful cars of Le Mans and it would be good to return those times.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Surely you are right and there could be some difference between the different cars but anyway that would be much more interesting than the LMP2.
Remembering what happened in the best years of the GT1:

Le Mans 1995
Best GT1 Ferrari F40 3:55.150
Worst GT1 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 4:27.890
Le Mans 1996
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 3:47.132
Worst GT1 Chrysler Viper GTS-R 4:11.014
Le Mans 1997
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 EVO 3:43.363
Worst GT1 Lotus Elise GT1 3:51.373
Le Mans 1998
Best GT1 Mercedes CLK LM 3:35.544
Worst GT1 McLaren F1 GTR 3:50.863

https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying

The difference was enormous in the first years, it was reduced with the emergence of more developed models and there was no BOP at that time.
I honestly don't think the difference is so big now. And those were the years of the most beautiful cars of Le Mans and it would be good to return those times.

actually for 1997-1998 there was some kind of bop since turbo 911 GT1 had less power than NA mercedes/mclaren. 550 vs 600hp.
Anyway main difference is that in late 90 there were so many manufacturers willing to enter that ACO had to even split the main class between LMP and LMGTP in 1999. Today situation is way sadder.

[Deleted]

Air restrictors according to displacement & engine types had been a thing for ages before the invention of bop. In some cases the said ratios also applied to weight. That wasn't bopping, it (usually) had a mathematical formula of sorts to back it up. As in it was written in the rulebook and it couldn't be manipulated by results and whatever.

Also, in the day of the old ACO may have balanced classes against each other for overall honors (like the mentioned 1999 open-top-LMP against coupe-LMGTP) via written regulations, but they did not really balance individual cars against each other like they do today.

I would be perfectly fine if they had had two classes of options for overall wins in 2021, and these two classes would have been sort of balanced against each other through regulative methods, yet individual cars wouldn't be touched. That's not manipulation and development-killer as constant individual chassis tweaking is.

[seanyb505]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...y-t50-details/

"There will also be two engine modes: one that moves torque lower down, and, as Murray put it, "runs out at what we call Ferrari revs, so around 9500 rpm." Murray says the more aggressive setting is "the one for when you say to your mate, 'Do you want to hear 12,000 rpm going through the tunnel?'"

Ferrari hypercar confirmed I guess.

[wolfhound]

Murray's T50 hypercar is to be developed in the Racing point windtunnel and will feature a fan as on his Brabham BT46B.


https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...g-point-on-t50

[Mike Bell]

Think Murray has already stated that the fan aero will be on road car only, unless Hypercar regs are more relaxed than suggested!

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by TF110

How about ones to create and at the same time do create race winning cars?

That makes even less sense than Juntos's original random-word-generator faux-profound gibberish

[Deleted]

But the words of Juntos... it's like poetry, it rhymes

[Juntos]

Thanks guy for levelling me with good old Gordon.

Out of curiosity, is good old Gordon using on his hypercar the same bespoke Cosworth V12 that revs to 12,100rpm of the Red Bull Valkyrie?

[chernaudi]

I don't think they're related. The AMR V12 is 6.5 liters, the T50's is 4 liters. Beyond that, I don't know much else, but I sort of doubt that they're at least closely related.

[S griffin]

He's getting Racing Point to help which is interesting. It's a team that still has plenty of people from the Force India days, so why not?