Big Changes at the House of Eights

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

I can see RD being one of those retired blokes who still calls in to the office 4 days a week "in case anyone needs my help".

Doesn’t Mr Johnson do that at Stapylton, albeit with less effect?

[Umai Naa]

And Mrs Klimenko?

[Jack65]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Doesn’t Mr Johnson do that at Stapylton, albeit with less effect?

Difference is that Dick remains a shareholder and never announced he was stepping away. Obviously Ryan Storey is the chief decision maker at DJR, but Dick hasn't held that role for many years.

[GTRMagic]

I wonder how hard Mr Dane laughs at all the people who think he is the anti-Christ...

He built a business, a very successful one.
And according to Mr Quinn a commercially successful one as well.

And spent 18 years and some building it. And sold slices of it off to invest in making it bigger (like the 2nd facility up the road, and all the shiny new machine tools apparently going into it)

Tall poppy syndrome abounds.

[Jack65]

There will always be haters of those who are successful. Those who dislike Dane because of the success he has had, probably didn't like Tom Walkinshaw, Fred Gibson, Dick Johnson and Frank Gardner when they had periods of success.

While teams haven't opened their books for perusal, there is a consensus that few if any teams have been turning a profit in recent years. Dane claimed as recently as 2019 that Triple Eight was only breaking even.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I wonder how hard Mr Dane laughs at all the people who think he is the anti-Christ...

He built a business, a very successful one.
And according to Mr Quinn a commercially successful one as well.

And spent 18 years and some building it. And sold slices of it off to invest in making it bigger (like the 2nd facility up the road, and all the shiny new machine tools apparently going into it)

Tall poppy syndrome abounds.

The Sport is ALOT Better for having Dane and 888 Camp involved.
Aussies love to knock success.

This guy is a legend.

[GTRMagic]

An interesting view of the ‘other’ 888

Make of it what you will…

[E.B]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

An interesting view of the ‘other’ 888

Make of it what you will…

Interesting article, thanks for the share.
I guess RD was always "My way or the highway".

[Kingair]

Nothing like unconditional love, and toughening up the young bloke for his future career.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Make of it what you will…

When it comes to these things there will be two stories told, and between them somewhere lies the truth.

[Umai Naa]

Mr Plato is no saint, either.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Mr Plato is no saint, either.

.... and Mr Muller is? Im no fan of Plato and agree he is no saint, but Muller has always struck me as being tarred with a similar brush.

[Umai Naa]

You're right.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

This is one for chavez, who asked me in the TCR thread about what factors I considered when I came to the "conclusion" that motor racing was a smaller culture.

Instead of cherry picking specific tv ratings and attendances, 888's presence in Australia and Sandgroper's posts is reflective of how lightweight the motor racing culture is in Australia.

While the UK operation may've stopped a long time ago, 888 is a UK team that's migrated down here. It's a team that benefitted from UK/European racing. It's been the leading team in Australia for 15 years, momentarily usurped by DJR having the benefit of being supported by Penske, a bigger operation, a small F1 team.

888/Dane was a lame team during Super touring 3rd of 3 teams in the 2000 season), and success came when super touring stopped and the btcc started going through a trough.

Dane himself was the third wheel, least credible, hanger on of the 3 initial owners of 888. He brings nothing to the table in a motor racing sense.

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

The Sport is ALOT Better for having Dane and 888 Camp involved.
Aussies love to knock success.

This guy is a legend.

The worst thing about Sandgroper's post is that there's a lot of people that think like him. It's an attitude that's lame and a bad reflection on Australian motorsport.

Australian motorsport/ATCC benefits nothing from 888/Dane being here as they are. Had they not been here, it's probable that competing in the ATCC/Bathurst would be less expensive and had greater value to participate.

There would've still been a leading team, but not dominant and lame like 888, and more successful Australian teams.

Many more variables and fluctuations of performances between teams. The expertise from Europe/USA would've been more evenly balanced, as no one would've had the early running like 888 did.

You compare 888/Dane to TWR/Walkinshaw. Tom Walkinshaw was already an accomplished figure in motor racing before coming for Bathurst. What he saw in Australia, he loved so much eventually he got a team going.

It was a two way thing though. TWR was a contribution of Australian motorsport, and Australian motorsport was a contribution to TWR. On top of that, it was just one part of TWR, and Walkinshaw himself had bigger fish to fry.

Dane on the other hand is an opportunist. Despite being a BTCC winning team owner, he was still a lightweight in UK/European motorsport. As opposed to Australia being one part of a bigger operation, it became a livelihood, and Australia is not the place for International competitors to do that.

He's not an accomplished driver, engineer or mechanic. He's the equivalent of a Vietnamese household finding their sweet spot in their shopping centre/strip and becoming a popular local bakery.

For him to be thought of as a legend is actually a sad reflection of Australian motorsport.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I wonder how hard Mr Dane laughs at all the people who think he is the anti-Christ...

He built a business, a very successful one.
And according to Mr Quinn a commercially successful one as well.

And spent 18 years and some building it. And sold slices of it off to invest in making it bigger (like the 2nd facility up the road, and all the shiny new machine tools apparently going into it)

Tall poppy syndrome abounds.

This is another horrid post. No mentioning of motor racing anywhere, But mentions of "business", "commercially" & "invest".

Am I reading the opinions of someone who considers themself a motor racing fan, or is this Alan Kohler or Elysse Morgan's account on a business forum?

[one five five]

The footage from Silverstone alone goes a long way to backing up the Plato version, on that part of the story at least.

Originally Posted by Kingair

Nothing like unconditional love, and toughening up the young bloke for his future career.

Plato was hardly a young bloke by 2001, he’s older than Muller!

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

This is one for chavez, who asked me in the TCR thread about what factors I considered when I came to the "conclusion" that motor racing was a smaller culture.

Instead of cherry picking specific tv ratings and attendances, 888's presence in Australia and Sandgroper's posts is reflective of how lightweight the motor racing culture is in Australia.

While the UK operation may've stopped a long time ago, 888 is a UK team that's migrated down here. It's a team that benefitted from UK/European racing. It's been the leading team in Australia for 15 years, momentarily usurped by DJR having the benefit of being supported by Penske, a bigger operation, a small F1 team.

888/Dane was a lame team during Super touring 3rd of 3 teams in the 2000 season), and success came when super touring stopped and the btcc started going through a trough.

Dane himself was the third wheel, least credible, hanger on of the 3 initial owners of 888. He brings nothing to the table in a motor racing sense.


The worst thing about Sandgroper's post is that there's a lot of people that think like him. It's an attitude that's lame and a bad reflection on Australian motorsport.

Australian motorsport/ATCC benefits nothing from 888/Dane being here as they are. Had they not been here, it's probable that competing in the ATCC/Bathurst would be less expensive and had greater value to participate.

There would've still been a leading team, but not dominant and lame like 888, and more successful Australian teams.

Many more variables and fluctuations of performances between teams. The expertise from Europe/USA would've been more evenly balanced, as no one would've had the early running like 888 did.

You compare 888/Dane to TWR/Walkinshaw. Tom Walkinshaw was already an accomplished figure in motor racing before coming for Bathurst. What he saw in Australia, he loved so much eventually he got a team going.

It was a two way thing though. TWR was a contribution of Australian motorsport, and Australian motorsport was a contribution to TWR. On top of that, it was just one part of TWR, and Walkinshaw himself had bigger fish to fry.

Dane on the other hand is an opportunist. Despite being a BTCC winning team owner, he was still a lightweight in UK/European motorsport. As opposed to Australia being one part of a bigger operation, it became a livelihood, and Australia is not the place for International competitors to do that.

He's not an accomplished driver, engineer or mechanic. He's the equivalent of a Vietnamese household finding their sweet spot in their shopping centre/strip and becoming a popular local bakery.

For him to be thought of as a legend is actually a sad reflection of Australian motorsport.

[E.B]

*gets popcorn and beer, then settles into the recliner with the laptop*

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

This is another horrid post. No mentioning of motor racing anywhere, But mentions of "business", "commercially" & "invest".

Am I reading the opinions of someone who considers themself a motor racing fan, or is this Alan Kohler or Elysse Morgan's account on a business forum?

If the BUSINESS of 888 did not exist, the cars run by Team18, Tekno, MSR would not exist. Nor would the components in the control supply, and indeed the engine supply thru KRE... simply would not exist.

Somebody has to pay for the motor racing. Its not run by patrons.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

This is another horrid post. No mentioning of motor racing anywhere, But mentions of "business", "commercially" & "invest".

From this:


To this:


In short order. Surely even those who dislike 888 Race Engineering have to admit that is a job well-done?

IIRC, far from spouting pro-888 bias GTRMagic was rightly critical of Triple Eight's explodey Sodemo-built French Ford Windsor engines at the time as well as a 888 V8 Supercar's tendency for suspension failure and other kinds of component failure. Prodrive's British-built Windsors had a similar tendency for catastrophic engine failure too. Both outfits eventually worked out a more suitable approach.

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Sodemo should be better than the prodrive mob... but then again the 1st yr apprentice down at the local Ford dealer could probably nail together a better engine than the Poms at FPR

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

With engines built by somebody else, and a chassis on its 2nd 888 evolution... how much did it cost in terms of poor results, and shedloads of Euros/Pounds/Dollars to get where they are now???

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This is the 2nd full year of 888 ownership though. the 2004 year was a total waste of resources..... a "building year" as FPR/Lowndes would say

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If a team thinks its clever to fit brand new (untested on track) components to each of their race cars at the biggest race of the year... and to watch them fail in public... seems quite an odd way to go motor racing to me...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

IIRC, GTRMagic was rightly critical of Triple Eight's explodey Sodemo-built French Ford Windsor engines at the time. Prodrive's British-built Windsors had a similar tendency for catastrophic engine failure too. Both outfits eventually worked out a more suitable approach.

Yeah - have the engines built in Oz by people who know how to build a pushrod engine. That fixed it.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yeah - have the engines built in Oz by people who know how to build a pushrod engine. That fixed it.

Perhaps, sadly, Stone Brothers Racing were outplayed politically -- supplying their excellent engines to a rival who would then beat them. They are perhaps better engineers than they are ruthless politicians.

Heck, they even sold a complete and competitive used chassis to Gibson Motorsport too -- an outfit which arguably absorbed Ford Racing funds away from themselves (and away from Glenn Seton Racing). A chassis which Oscar "man of a thousand springs" Fiornotto was not necessarily able to improve upon in a new build.

Conversely, you see Toto Wolff refusing time and time again to supply Red Bull Racing (F1 team) with Mercedes High Performance Powertrain engines (even despite an Aston Martin - Mercedes link and Aston Martin sponsorship of Red Bull Racing): a ruthless and cynical politician playing every angle to advantage.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yeah - have the engines built in Oz by people who know how to build a pushrod engine. That fixed it.

From what I remember, the build was ok, and the numbers on the dyno was where they wanted them to be. But once the engine was installed in the car that's when everything turned to crap....

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Somebody has to pay for the motor racing. Its not run by patrons.

Well in TCR it seems to be, just like GT racing.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Perhaps, sadly, Stone Brothers Racing were outplayed politically -- supplying their excellent engines to a rival who would then beat them. They are perhaps better engineers than they are ruthless politicians.

This is the same as Larry Perkins and others who were excellent at the engineering side of the business but as the businesses themselves got bigger they needed to bring in more competent management to run the whole business and keep all the stakeholders happy.

It is interesting to me that the Stone Brothers seem to be the type that has an expiry date, if you look at everything they did, they never really kept at anything for any length of time. Some personalities are just like that.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

From what I remember, the build was ok, and the numbers on the dyno was where they wanted them to be. But once the engine was installed in the car that's when everything turned to crap....

Can't recall on the Sodemo engines but the Tickford engine(s) (from memory) were OK but not great on power but lacked torque - arguably the most important performance measure of these engines.