Rafanelli Out - MG In - Page 2

OVERSTEER · 27 Mar 2002, 14:20 (Ref:245153)

Oh yeah!!! Another British car in the race and potentially more British drivers

kdr · 27 Mar 2002, 15:04 (Ref:245170)

ascari are a little p***ed off in motoring news this week.

who are orbit, auto-palace and the racers group...have they been there before?

Fab · 27 Mar 2002, 15:48 (Ref:245186)

Auto Palace seems to be the team of Johnny Halliday' son. J. Halliday is a french old-fashion singer. His son is too... his name is David Halliday. He installed his team nearby Luc Alphand Adventure' team at the technoparc, nearby the track...

Not sure of all that stuff, sorry if there's mistakes...

RickP:Clio51 · 27 Mar 2002, 16:56 (Ref:245234)

Err, Porsche are NOT owned by VAG. They are independant, mostly owned still by the Porsche family and no declared holdings by VAG whatsoever.
Also Nissan aren't wholely owned by Renault yet either Muzza...
I think Bentley Vs Porsche in 2003 is more than possible

RickP

Muzza · 27 Mar 2002, 17:39 (Ref:245256)

Hello, Rick,

I did some research on this subject months ago, but yes, I may be wrong. However, that's what I know (so far):

- Correct, Renault does not own Nissan wholely, but Renault does have the control of Nissan shares. That's why Carlos Ghosn is now the Head of Nissan - Ghosn is a Renault man, and he is the guy behind the re-structuration of this japanese brand. Ghosn is turning Nissan downside up in such a fashion that he even became a cartoon hero in Japan (no kidding).

- Indeed the Porsche family owns a big part of the brand - I am not sure whether they have or not the majority of the shares, I have to check that - but this does not mean much. Actually the share distribution of any major company is a very complex web of holdings, parent companies, co-allocated shares, preferred/nominal shares and so forth. And this happen even if NOMINALLY most of the Porsche shares are not in the hands of VW - because the shares are owned by someone who is owned by someone who is owned by someone and so on (many German, Swiss and Austrian corporations operate under these rather confuse ownership models). And by the end of the day, the Volkswagen folks in Wolfsburg make the calls.

Hence, in my opinion, although Nissan and Porsche are managed independently, the decision regarding major, strategic subject falls on the hands of, respectively, Renault and Volkswagen.

Again, I may be wrong, and I would appreciate being corrected if I am.

Cheers,

Muzza

Dr. Austin · 27 Mar 2002, 17:41 (Ref:245258)

Good news that another good car will be at LeMans. The MG was in third place in the opening hour of Sebring. It was battling with the Cadillac and Champion Audi. If the race is a monsoon like last year, the little cars will have a great chance, particularly if they can get Johnny Kane to drive.

M Coupe · 27 Mar 2002, 21:47 (Ref:245444)

Muzza,

VAG have very little say in the running of Porsche. Their only tie is the new 4x4 project and a bit or engineering consultancy. Porsche are a family owned company like BMW.

I know people who work for Porsche in Stuttgart, tell them they work for VW and you better be a long way away.

cybersdorf · 27 Mar 2002, 21:53 (Ref:245448)

Quote:

Originally posted by RickP:Clio51
Err, Porsche are NOT owned by VAG. They are independant, mostly owned still by the Porsche family and no declared holdings by VAG whatsoever.

Forget it, Rick - noone believes that. I've been telling them time after time, they will not believe it. The Porsche = VW myth doesn't go away. Must have something to do with the rear engined cars

Quote:

Also Nissan aren't wholely owned by Renault yet either Muzza...

The Régie hold the majority, though.

TVRfan · 27 Mar 2002, 23:36 (Ref:245507)

VW and Porsche had the same designer and chassis for their first cars did they not?

fausto · 27 Mar 2002, 23:51 (Ref:245518)

However it must be remembered that Mr. Piech, currently at the head of VAG Group, and ready to retire soon, is a nephew of Ferdinand Porsche.
Piech family own a consistent part of Porsche shares

cybersdorf · 28 Mar 2002, 00:05 (Ref:245533)

Quote:

Originally posted by TVRfan
VW and Porsche had the same designer and chassis for their first cars did they not?

...what was his name again...??

cybersdorf · 28 Mar 2002, 00:06 (Ref:245535)

Quote:

Originally posted by fausto
However it must be remembered that Mr. Piech, currently at the head of VAG Group, and ready to retire soon, is a nephew of Ferdinand Porsche.
Piech family own a consistent part of Porsche shares

But - the Porsche family isn't involved in the day-to-day running of the Porsche company anymore. That's why Piech is "guesting" at VW instead of running his own business.

Muzza · 28 Mar 2002, 00:21 (Ref:245541)

Hello, "Volks",

Interesting debate about the ownership of Porsche. Some guys saying no ("it is NOT owned by Volkswagen") and others claiming yes ("it IS", I part this opinion, and I say that Porsche is independently managed, reporting to VW for strategic issues).

M Coupe said that he knows people in Porsche Stuttgart that go mad if one suggests they work for Volkswagen. On the other hand, I have a friend (former college mate, powertrain engineer) working for Volkswagen in Wolfsburg that swears that Volks owns Porsche through their holdings!

This question has been on the air forever... Why don't we try to get some more detailed data? I will call some guys at Volks and ask for details (sorry, I am poor guy, I've got no friends working for Porsche...

).

Ops, I remembered a symptomatic thing. In all car saloons I've been to (Geneva, Frankfurt, Sao Paulo, Los Angeles) the Porsche stand is always by the other Volkswagen Group brands? Right there, beside Audi and Seat...

A-ha, explain that!

Cheers, and a beer to those with the right answer!

Muzza

TVRfan · 28 Mar 2002, 09:50 (Ref:245772)

cybersdorf...... he was called Dr. Ferdinand Porsche!

KA · 28 Mar 2002, 12:57 (Ref:245877)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fab
Auto Palace seems to be the team of Johnny Halliday' son. J. Halliday is a french old-fashion singer. His son is too... his name is David Halliday. He installed his team nearby Luc Alphand Adventure' team at the technoparc, nearby the track...

Not sure of all that stuff, sorry if there's mistakes...

So basically a team with little track record who get in at the expense of outfits who compete in most of the major international races because they're French and based just down the road?- Good to see some things never change....

kdr · 28 Mar 2002, 13:10 (Ref:245883)

mmmm...

fausto · 28 Mar 2002, 16:05 (Ref:245963)

AutoPalace&Halliday Jr., no track record, lot of record tracks however......

kdr · 28 Mar 2002, 17:54 (Ref:246017)

maybe one of henris boys will trip over them and then le **** will really hit le fan...

SL · 28 Mar 2002, 19:31 (Ref:246096)

Sounds like the private 911 boys had better move over pretty quickly when the see the bosses Audi and Bentley company cars bearing down on them

SL

paulzinho · 28 Mar 2002, 19:57 (Ref:246120)

Quote:

Originally posted by SL
Sounds like the private 911 boys had better move over pretty quickly when the see the bosses Audi and Bentley company cars bearing down on them

SL

Imagine the Porsches taking out the company cars....

SL · 28 Mar 2002, 22:23 (Ref:246235)

Paul,
I hope you mean the likes of Seikal Motorsports having the loan of a 917 / 956 / 936 company car for the weekend, maybe mid June, add a Gulf / Shell / Rothmans / Martini paint job and watch out Audi !!!

"No Mr Piech the 4000km were business use only, honest"

SL

SL

paulzinho · 28 Mar 2002, 22:43 (Ref:246263)

Quote:

Originally posted by SL
Paul,
I hope you mean the likes of Seikal Motorsports having the loan of a 917 / 956 / 936 company car for the weekend, maybe mid June, add a Gulf / Shell / Rothmans / Martini paint job and watch out Audi !!!

"No Mr Piech the 4000km were business use only, honest"

Ooh Yes please!!!!!!!!

Fab · 29 Mar 2002, 16:34 (Ref:246619)

Quote:

Originally posted by KA

So basically a team with little track record who get in at the expense of outfits who compete in most of the major international races because they're French and based just down the road?- Good to see some things never change....

I'm affraid you're absolutely... right !

Nordic · 2 Apr 2002, 12:21 (Ref:249822)

If someone else was to drop out then the 2nd Prodrive Ferrari would be in.
Is the Morgan likey to make it??

SL · 2 Apr 2002, 13:47 (Ref:249919)

Morgan was at Brands yesterday and running fairly quickly, nothing like the Morgan's of old this was keeping up with the rest.

SL

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