Round 1: Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg, FL. March 8 - 10.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Josef Newgarden. That was a very solid performance and a good overall result for Team Penske.

[broadrun96]

That was more boring than Jeddah yesterday. Ok, time change and market this morning but I fell asleep twice watching the race. Newgarden crushed everyone but the rest of the field just seemed to be there circulating outside of a few stupid moves

[bjohnsonsmith]

Race Result

Not a great race but just about ok as season openers go. Otherwise a great start to the season for Josef Newgarden and Team Penske. Pato O'Ward was the fly in Penske's ointment with that 2nd place.

Both Colton Herta and reigning driver's champion Alex Palou drove well, with respectable finishes for their respective teams. I'm not too sure what happened with Rosenqvist. He started ok but gradually fell back, though he managed to finish in the top ten.

[NaBUru38]

The race was unusually boring. I watched it on delay, so I skipped quite a bit.

I'm afraid that the lack of overtaking is caused by the new aeroscreen generating bad turbulences.

[broadrun96]

But it doesn't stop overtaking at other tracks, it's the track and only aggressive moves pay off. And it appeared fuel strategy played a large part, see the insane amount of Push to Pass everyone had late in the race. Can't use it if you're trying to make a fuel number, think they need to work back and figure out if smaller, or bigger if possible, tanks would change up the strategy to reduce fuel save runs

[racerxf12004]

Overall, a very dull race. What happened to the push to pass? They didnt show how much each driver had remaining? Seems like if they were using it, it didnt create any advantage? Hope the rest of the season improves. Way too many ads shown.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by racerxf12004

Overall, a very dull race. What happened to the push to pass? They didnt show how much each driver had remaining? Seems like if they were using it, it didnt create any advantage? Hope the rest of the season improves. Way too many ads shown.

People weren't using it because they were conserving fuel to make it a 2 stop race.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The whole race was more or less a fuel saving exercise, with drivers lap after lap hitting the numbers.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The whole race was more or less a fuel saving exercise, with driver's lap after lap hitting the numbers.

Dixon won three of the last four races of 2023 using this method.
Is this to become the Defacto way to win races in IndyCar now?

We hope not but there is clearly a concentrated move toward this type of strategy in the way of 'racing to win.'

[Rusty Nail]

Good for Dixon and he's a master at it and I'm a massive fan but I hate the tyre and fuel conservation that goes on in both IndyCars and F1.

I want to see proper racing! Spec the cars so that the drivers have to go hard at it for the full race. Can't be that difficult to do that if the will is there.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Rusty Nail

Good for Dixon and he's a master at it and I'm a massive fan but I hate the tyre and fuel conservation that goes on in both IndyCars and F1.



I want to see proper racing! Spec the cars so that the drivers have to go hard at it for the full race. Can't be that difficult to do that if the will is there.

Uhh, knowing that fastest to the end not fastest laps is how you win is pretty much the history of racing. At no point in history has it ever been hammer and tong every lap, in fact you could argue it's more aggressive now than ever before with cars actually making through an entire event

[Rusty Nail]

Historically yes, but the cars in days gone by were much less reliable, as you noted.

That is the point, from that perspective they can now actually race flat out all race long if they have to.

So make them actually race, by writing the regs in such a way that they have to.

For instance maybe stipulate a minimum number of pitstops so that they cannot employ fuel saving to eliminate a pitstop.

Possibly do something with tyres also to make sure there is no incentive to nurse tyres.

In a spec series like IndyCars I would imagine that over race distance it would close the field up and improve the racing.

Might not work for F1 though, where all the cars are different and (under)fuelled for the race but you would imagine that great minds could come up with suitable solutions.

[broadrun96]

Creation of rules to remove "problems" never result in fixing them and usually add 3 more

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Dixon won three of the last four races of 2023 using this method.
Is this to become the Defacto way to win races in IndyCar now?

We hope not but there is clearly a concentrated move toward this type of strategy in the way of 'racing to win.'

He's excelled at that during his career.

I would hope not as well and it will be interesting to see how strategies develop, once the hybrid engines are brought in.

[joeb]

Marshall notes one of the issues at St Pete was the new harder tires made for the new heavier hybrid Indycars. Problem is we don't have those yet!

https://racer.com/2024/03/13/pruetts...-petersburg-2/

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

Marshall notes one of the issues at St Pete was the new harder tires made for the new heavier hybrid Indycars. Problem is we don't have those yet!

https://racer.com/2024/03/13/pruetts...-petersburg-2/

The article says the decision to pull the plug on the hybrid car for the first half of the season, was made after Firestone produced the harder tyres.

[Rusty Nail]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Creation of rules to remove "problems" never result in fixing them and usually add 3 more

I guess I can't argue with that!

[fergus_r]

A bit late to the party - and I know the next 'event' happened yesterday - but I thought I'd jump in and share my thoughts after attending raceday at St Pete.

Overall, the spectator experience was better than I expected.

Most of the corners are accessible with just general admission and, while the crowd was large, it never felt overwhelming and people were very cordial. There were plenty of opportunities to get right up to the fence - people generally watch for a few minutes, take some pictures and then move on, and the crowd wasn't big enough to be multiple 'layers' deep of people.

There are plenty of big screens, concession stands - the usual fare at American motorsport events. Another common trait (at least from my experience) is how easy everything is - okay, I did arrive quite early (around 6am) on raceday, but parking in nearby Tropicana Field ($15) was a breeze, followed by a short shuttle bus ride to the main gates where I was able to buy a ticket. From parking up and being trackside was around 20 minutes.

Having never been to a street circuit, there was certainly a different atmosphere and it was bizarre (but wonderful) to see the high-rise condos, stop signs/traffic signals - and just being in a city park in the middle of the track was a new one for me!

The weather was great, low humidity, and the day trackside finished early enough (around 3pm) to go off and enjoy the rest of the day in and around the St Pete area.

There was a long line for the shuttle buses after the race, as you'd expect with everyone leaving at the same time, but there were plenty of buses and it 'only' took around 30 minutes of waiting to get on one. From there, I drove straight out of Tropicana Field with no traffic issues whatsoever.

I walked around downtown St Pete for a few hours in the evening - it's a nice place, not the most lively on a Sunday evening but there's enough going on, quite a few race fans still around, plenty of good restuarants, bars and some upmarket shopping potential for those that way inclined!

Overall, I enjoyed it, and it was great to see IndyCar in person for the first time. Would I go for more than the 1 day? Probably not. I felt like just the raceday, despite there only being three races plus IndyCar warm-up, was enough to get around the entire track (multiple times if you want) and enjoy the other stuff going on.

I didn't have a paddock pass - quite frankly I've spent enough times in (free) paddocks over the years, to know that paying $$$ to see some spec single-seaters up close is not worth it for me. So that's really down to personal preference.

I can't comment on the stands but I was more than happy with general admission. Perhaps they might be worth checking out if you're going for more than 1 day!

Finally, bag searches - they weren't quite as strict as I was expecting, so I could have taken more food in and who knows, maybe drinks too! It's also worth noting that - rightly or wrongly - cameras are a no-no.

[E.B]

INDYCAR ANNOUNCES ST. PETERSBURG PENALTIES..... Newgarden and ScottyMac Penskes DSQ'd

INDYCAR has announced penalties for Team Penske, including disqualifications for the No. 2 (driver Josef Newgarden) and No. 3 (Scott McLaughlin) and a 10-point penalty for No. 12 (Will Power) from the Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg presented by RP Funding on Sunday, March 10 on the Streets of St. Petersburg.

Team Penske was in violation of “Push to Pass” parameters


Full story and details:https://www.indycar.com/News/2024/04...Pete-Penalties

[bjohnsonsmith]

Blimey!

Penske accept the penalties, with Team Penske President Tim Cindric saying, the Push to Pass software should have been removed Team Penske's cars, following the recent hybrid testing, and that the software allowed for Push to Pass to be deployed during restarts at the St. Petersburg Grand Prix race, when it should not have been permitted.

I thought the driver had to deploy Push to Pass?

[NaBUru38]

Oh wow!

[bjohnsonsmith]

I have the answer to my question about the driver deploying Push to Pass, in this article from Racer.com, which says: ''During last weekend’s event in Long Beach, the series found the three cars from Team Penske were able to bypass that software restriction and use push-to-pass at any time.''


https://racer.com/2024/04/24/team-pe...rsburg-winner/

[joeb]

This changes Josef's season quite a bit. After losing out with contact at Long Beach, losing these points is brutal for him.

Did the articles say they actually used P2P early, or just had the opportunity to do so?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

This changes Josef's season quite a bit. After losing out with contact at Long Beach, losing these points is brutal for him.

Did the articles say they actually used P2P early, or just had the opportunity to do so?

This paragraph says: ''An extensive review of data from the race on the streets of St. Petersburg revealed that Team Penske manipulated the overtake system so that the No. 2, 3 and 12 cars had the ability to use Push to Pass on starts and restarts. According to the IndyCar rulebook, use of overtake is not available during championship races until the car reaches the alternate start-finish line. It was determined that the No. 2 and the No. 3 gained a competitive advantage by using Push to Pass on restarts while the No. 12 did not.''


Pretty damning .

[E.B]

Originally Posted by joeb

This changes Josef's season quite a bit. After losing out with contact at Long Beach, losing these points is brutal for him.

Did the articles say they actually used P2P early, or just had the opportunity to do so?

Cindric in the Penske statement (in the racer article linked) admitted that yes they used it and he also acknowledged that it calls into question whether the unfair advantage was known to exist in advance.

Sprung bad it seems.