[Team] Brawn Out at Mercedes?

[djinvicta]

Only when Williams is leading with Mercedes in second place...

[chunterer]

Only when a Williams starts using a Mercedes engine.

Let's hope the Lauda effect isn't too gung-ho. It is patently obvious that some of the top echelons needed to go, but who was actually responsible for hiring them all in the first place? I doubt Ross was.....

Fry wouldn't be missed as he doesn't really do a fat lot there anyway and out of the 5 strong Technical heads, how many of those guys have actually achieved anything of note in the last half dozen years?

I suspect the Paddy Lowe chasing is indeed something to do with the making Hamilton at home theory mentioned earlier. Wonder who else has been on their shopping list, but more to the point, would those being chased be massively keen to work with Hamilton again so soon?

[Scooter185]

If Lowe goes to MB will Brawn go to Mac?

[BSchneiderFan]

Instinctively, I can't see Brawn fitting in at McLaren.

[TF110]

Claims Brawn is leaving are premature. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/w...132407148.html

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by TF110

Claims Brawn is leaving are premature. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/w...132407148.html

same report lifted from Autosport and linked back in post #4

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by TF110

Claims Brawn is leaving are premature. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/w...132407148.html

That article hasn't really said anything that the previous articles haven't said. Wolff doesn't want Brawn to leave, but it seems that there could already be too many chiefs at Mercedes.

Brawn, contrary to popular belief, doesn't have that much to do with the overall design of the car. That task falls on the likes of Geoff Willis, and one or two others.

[VIVA GT]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...ut-the-future/

[davyboy]

Way too many chiefs... and it's questionable what value most of them add. There will have to a top level head roll there as a consequence of the prior years' underperformance and at the moment bets would be on Brawn. Also I'm not sure that Ross is up for the kind of (what now appear to be politically based) challenges that lie ahead. He's been there and done it before and has nothing more to prove in that area.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/...ut-the-future/

So, there you have it (?).

"He said that Aldo Costa is in charge of the 2013 car and that Geoff Willis is leading the design team for 2014."

Wouldn't have been my first choices, but there are only so many good F1 car designers out there.

[djinvicta]

Forever sceptic, too many people talk up their job in public, then leave or get pushed. Hoping Ross isnt one of those.

[TF110]

If you read all the stories, he's saying Mercedes wants him for the long term. Why would they want him long term if someone else is going to take his position? Especially seeing as how he isn't talking about going to another position!

[wnut]

As JohnSSC said: "Weird"

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns24736.html


Still think Schumacher's departure was a ringing endorsement of what he thought of Mercedes' chances of providing hom with a car capable of winning the WDC!

Ironic that Mercedes who sell themselves on quality tried to do F1 on the cheap! Why disrupt everything you have learned, rather just invest the money the engineeering team needs to do a proper job!

Or just get out ....

[TF110]

Anoter good read about the Brawn issue with Hamilton's situation in it as well...
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/a...162606199.html

"I'm not an entrepreneur, I'm a racer," he said. "I want to go racing without the incumbent thoughts of trying to make a profit.

"I'm planning on being here a very long time."

[davyboy]

I think most of us here are scratching our heads as to how the introduction of so many chiefs... particularly of the Lauda variety... could possibly precipitate the kind of change in direction necessary for Mercedes to move up the grid this year. Bringing in people like Paddy Lowe to provide a comfort blanket for Lewis is all very well... but Lewis isn't where the problems are.

[JohnSSC]

Well it seems Ross has had his "Alexander Haig" moment with the "I am in charge" quote.

As I see it, all of the activity and Associated Weirdness points to:

1) Brawn is out. He either does not know it yet (unlikely) or the exit is still being scripted.
2) Changes are afoot at M-B's F1 operation. Brawn's comment that Wolff is coming in to "handle the commercial side" seems a bit odd when you consider this is (or was) a factory team. While that means there would be commercial obligations, a fellow like Wolff finds money for your operation, he doesn't just manage it.
3) Bringing in a revenue-finder indicates (to me) that M-b is going down the Renault path. Soon we will be reading about Wolff's task being to make the team more "independent" and able to generate revenues so that it can "stand on its own."
4) Haug left. IIRC, he actively courted Brawn so as to purchase the team. He also actively courted Michael to come out of retirement. He was fully behind paying Nico a gazillion Euros before he won his first and only F1 race. He threw a giant glob of dosh at Lewis even though Lewis, having fallen out with Mc, had nowhere else to go. It is never good to out-negotiate yourself.
5) If M-B was unhappy with Haug, then likely they are unhappy with the results of his hires, plans and programmes. Hence, the rumoured approach of Paddy Lowe to obtain a "fresh perspective" and "better define" the programme. The quotes are mine, by the way. We haven't seen the press releases yet, but I am sure we will see these phrases.

To summarize: Ross is gone. Big changes are coming at M-B F1. The factory will begin to implement their exit strategy. Nico and Lewis are screwed insofar as having rides that can challenge for the WDC. They may be a bit more competitive then they have been, but not much...

[Paradise City]

I'd keep Brawn there for stability, bring Lowe on board for new blood.

I don't have a high regard for this Wollf guy, Lauda I like as a top pundit but I'm not that clear as to what he's going to bring to the Merc table. Distant memories of Ferrari?

It seems to be chaos at the top of Merc atm. We're striding into February of a defining year for these guys and all I'm seeing is confusion among the leadership and that's not good.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

W
2) Changes are afoot at M-B's F1 operation. Brawn's comment that Wolff is coming in to "handle the commercial side" seems a bit odd when you consider this is (or was) a factory team. While that means there would be commercial obligations, a fellow like Wolff finds money for your operation, he doesn't just manage it.
3) Bringing in a revenue-finder indicates (to me) that M-b is going down the Renault path. Soon we will be reading about Wolff's task being to make the team more "independent" and able to generate revenues so that it can "stand on its own."

I think Brawn is being devalued by you lot unfairly, lol but for me, your points here might very well be the answer to the Wolff riddle. Merc are slowly edging along an exit strategy and Wolff the financier is the right man to steer this process.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think Brawn is being devalued by you lot unfairly, lol but for me, your points here might very well be the answer to the Wolff riddle. Merc are slowly edging along an exit strategy and Wolff the financier is the right man to steer this process.

If that's the case, how can they ever hope to be a McLaren, or a Ferrari, or a Red Bull, or even a Lotus, without really having the background of success that those teams have had?

The team that Mercedes took Wolff from are also going through a very bad patch, but I would put good money on that team to be just as successful, if not more successful than the team he has gone to.

Mercedes have a tough season ahead of them, and the teams that were snapping at their tails are much closer than the ones they saw nothing of.

It would be great if Mercedes were right up there with the top teams. People want to see Hamilton, and let's not forget Rosberg, challenge the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Raikkonen, et al, but the feeling is that the 2013 car isn't going to be a world beater.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

To summarize: Ross is gone. Big changes are coming at M-B F1. The factory will begin to implement their exit strategy. Nico and Lewis are screwed insofar as having rides that can challenge for the WDC. They may be a bit more competitive then they have been, but not much...

This wouldn't surprise me at all.

[wolfhound]

Ross Brawn to me is a good engineering manager but I don't think he is as good at the commercial side of things and thats where Nic Fry came in.

To me the problems at Mercedes seem to be related to how the team is technically structured and possibly technical infrastructure as opposed to financial resourses. Brawn seemed to do a good job at the teams he was before he joined Honda-Brawn-Mercedes.

He got lucky with in 2009 with the Brawn car but there seems to be a lack of positive technical direction since.

Remember when Brawn was at Ferrari it was Rory Byrne who designed the cars and seldom got the credit he deserved.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Ross Brawn to me is a good engineering manager but I don't think he is as good at the commercial side of things and thats where Nic Fry came in.

To me the problems at Mercedes seem to be related to how the team is technically structured and possibly technical infrastructure as opposed to financial resourses. Brawn seemed to do a good job at the teams he was before he joined Honda-Brawn-Mercedes.

He got lucky with in 2009 with the Brawn car but there seems to be a lack of positive technical direction since.

Remember when Brawn was at Ferrari it was Rory Byrne who designed the cars and seldom got the credit he deserved.

Brawn is very good, that's without question, but as you say, he wasn't alone in delivering the success Ferrari enjoyed for so many years. He was ONE part of a dream team that included arguably the greatest driver of all time, a genius designer and shrewd politician [Todt]. Maybe Mercedes' have realized that and are attempting to recreate something similar here, though I'd be interested to see which of those missing positions Lauda and Wolff are set to occupy (!)

[Marbot]

Lauda, like Montezemolo, will be good when something that the other teams/drivers have done is disapproved of. Other than that, I don't know. But journalists often do like sticking a microphone in front of his face if they want to hear something a bit out of the ordinary.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Brawn is very good, that's without question, but as you say, he wasn't alone in delivering the success Ferrari enjoyed for so many years. He was ONE part of a dream team that included arguably the greatest driver of all time, a genius designer and shrewd politician [Todt]. Maybe Mercedes' have realized that and are attempting to recreate something similar here, though I'd be interested to see which of those missing positions Lauda and Wolff are set to occupy (!)

My guess is that Wolff will have a commercial / overall managment role with Lauda a more political one (FIA FOM etc.)

Wolff is well known to Mercedes from DTM so they know who they are getting. I suspect they are trying to bring in new blood at an upper managment level with Wolff in the same that Horner did at Red Bull and Boullier at Enstone.

I have not seen or heard any mention of Nick Fry in recent times, has he gone?

[Marbot]

It might be fun to have a poll with regard to where we think Mercedes will finish in the championship? There does seem to be rather a lot of interest in that, and not just here on 10-Tenths.