Test Track Emmen Holland

[LuiggiSpeed]

^^^ I like that one looks very space efficient

[F1 lobby]

That update looks great, you used the space very efficiently.
The only little thing is that it takes quite a while before the first left hander and the right tyres, or right side of the tyres will maybe cool down too much,,?
Too get a little bit more balance between speed and the lack of fast left corners I suggest to open up much more the exit of the hairpin, a proper bend to open up the entry of T11. It will make both left corners faster and flowing.
The entry of the hairpin remains the same ofcourse. And still enough space for the run-off too.

[F1 lobby]

Originally Posted by SpeedingTortoise

Refined this one even more. The left kink/corner has been removed so there is more space for the new infield. The hairpin has been opened up even more and the run down to the long right hander has been increased. The track length is now 4.96km.

This is what I mean with the bend from T10 to T11:



But how you think about these changes, some more balance in the amount of left handers but still your designed shapes of the corners..I only don't have a clue if the track length even increased..

[SpeedingTortoise]

To be honest, I think you are creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. With my original layout there are 10 rights and 7 lefts which is fine. To me, the additional left between T10 and T11 doesn't add anything to the track and just get rid of a straight. The alternate layout you have made just replicates corners that are already in the track and doesn't provide the variety that a test track should have. These are just my thoughts however but I would like to hear what the rest of community think.

[F1 lobby]

The alternate lay-out replicates most of your corners indeed so forget about that one but I would like to see at least some more exciting left handers because there are very few, although the right handers are very fast, especially the first sector.

That's why I suggest to open up the exit of T10 and the entry of T11, and the bend between those corners is actually a nice flowing part too.
There are already a lot of straights so a bit more variety will finish the job perfectly. And if you could have a look to the junction of that left-right chicane of the existing track which is located a little bit more to the right, and the oval is a little smaller than yours.

As far as my opinion counts I would choose for your lay-out because until now that's the most efficient one. I also would like to know the vision and opinions of the others uphere but it seems that this thread is not interesting enough despite the amount of views, nobody even takes the effort except you, Luiggispeed and Scotsbrutesfan, it's a shame but it makes the choice a lot easier

[SpeedingTortoise]

I see your point now. I'll try and make the esses towards the end of the lap a little faster and make the hairpin more open. I've found the measurements you put for the oval earlier in the thread so I'll do a final update with those. Should be up tomorrow or Sunday if I haven't got anything planned.

Also quick question. Is the oval going to be unchanged when the new track is being built or will there be changes to/the option to change it? Things like widening the track or repaving.

[F1 lobby]

The oval will be unchanged, the oval corners have a width of 13 meter so I guess that a overall track width of 12 meters is good enough. The asphalt is brandnew, end of 2012 but can be widened on the straights which now is only 9 meters wide. The south corner has a positive camber of 70 cm height difference, measured from the inside to the outside of the corner, so that's 15 degrees banking? The new corners can have camber too but I think 10 degrees will do too, don't you think? Or better all the same 15 degrees?

[SpeedingTortoise]

Here is the final update for the track. The oval is now the correct length and some parts have been altered to fit the extra space available. The oval's straights have been widened to 11m to match the new track. Track is now 4.95km.

[F1 lobby]

Great man that's an awesome lay-out! What we need more are the curbstones and the green sound walls around the whole area, which is 5 meter high and 13-15 meters wide.
Only the oval, and the longest straight has to be lowered a little until the green sound wall, according to the current track, which is quite close but it's already there,so,,see the pic



About the elevation changes: this is something you can't visualize from a bird-eye view but maybe you can make the track in Bobs Track Builder, although I know that takes serious time to build. I even want to pay you for a 3D animation because that would be necessary to make a professional proposal to the owner.
The red circles are the locations where 5-6 meter high hills, diameter 20+/-meter, needs to rise in order to create some blind entries for those corners.



This is their design of the pit building which needs to be build along the oval straight but this design can also be improved

[SpeedingTortoise]

Thanks. The first problem I have is that I can't use Bob's Track Builder but I know of someone who can so I've sent them a PM to see if they can help. What I can do is add detail to the Sketchup model, things like kerbs, barriers, access roads, the pit building, elevation, so that we can use it for visuals for a proposal.

The second problem I have is about the elevation. I think that the 5 you have shown is too many in terms of safety and cost. I don't know the budget of the track so I cant say if we can/cannot afford it but I think that from a safety point of view that the elevation your talking about is a risk I don't want to take. The results of getting it wrong can be severe. An example I know of is at the Slovakia Ring where there is a hill on a long straight that has seen cars go on to 2 wheels and one of them has flipped completely. Here's a video I have found of the hill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFFJ-ns8o1Q

Another question is how long the elevation is going to be on the track. It needs to be long enough to make the gradient flat enough to prevent the cars from taking off but I don't know how long that is. Is the elevation going to be long enough that it goes into the corners? I would only have 2 points of elevation and those would be the two furthest to the right. I'm not trying to scare you into not wanting this but what I'm saying is that this is something that we should think about carefully.

[F1 lobby]

Ofcourse that degree of elevation is way too dangerous!
I was wrong about the radius of those 5 meter hills/elevations, it's far more than 20+ meters, it has too be at least 40 meters otherwise you'll be launched like in the video., but honoustly I don't have a clue but the purpose is to create a flowing blind entry with a heighest level point just before the apex. And indeed it needs to decrease height flowing into the corner with positive camber for maximum grip. Also the steepness of the last part towards the heighest level point determines whether the car or bike will be airborne, like Cadwell park that's a sick jump!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=33r-GQ23s2s

[F1 lobby]

To calculate the elevation degree the rule is that the height increases with 10 meters over 100 meters with an elevation of 10%(5,71 degrees) but I think if we maintain a diameter of 100 meters with a 5 meter height than the elevation degree will be 11,51 degrees and that is 20% . A diameter of 150 meters and 5 meter height is 15% 8,51 degrees. That's 75 meter up and 75 meter down but to avoid any take-offs the upper(horizontal flat) part of the hill between up and down needs to be at least 50 meters.
Maybe you can try out in Sketch-up first a diameter of 100 meter and if that is too steep than you try a diameter of 150 meter with 5 meters height. Or you think 15% is also too steep?

[F1 lobby]

Originally Posted by SpeedingTortoise

Another question is how long the elevation is going to be on the track. It needs to be long enough to make the gradient flat enough to prevent the cars from taking off but I don't know how long that is. Is the elevation going to be long enough that it goes into the corners? I would only have 2 points of elevation and those would be the two furthest to the right. I'm not trying to scare you into not wanting this but what I'm saying is that this is something that we should think about carefully.

I calculated the gradient of those 5 meter high bumps/hills, with a 10%, 5,71 degrees we need 50 meter upwards, 50 meter horizontal upper level, and 50 meter downwards into the corner, for T7, T8, T10, and T12.



For the first hill before T5 we need a lower gradient because the approach is high speed so in order not to take off a 5%, 2,35 degrees is save.
That's 100 meter up, 50 meter horizontal upper level, and 100 meter downwards into the corner.



I just made some simple sketches but the tops of the hills need to be flowing, flattened out ofcourse. Did you try out something in Sketch-up about the gradients already?

[F1 lobby]

Some images of the terrain and the current oval track

[F1 lobby]

Originally Posted by SpeedingTortoise

Thanks. The first problem I have is that I can't use Bob's Track Builder but I know of someone who can so I've sent them a PM to see if they can help. What I can do is add detail to the Sketchup model, things like kerbs, barriers, access roads, the pit building, elevation, so that we can use it for visuals for a proposal.

I don't know if you have read my messages but I replied your question about the elevation gradient. I was wondering if you already got an answer of the guy who is willing to visualize your design in Bobs track builder,,
Hope you are still in it so we can pull this of in order to make a proposal for the end of january,,

[SpeedingTortoise]

The track is finally done!! My most detailed track to date with kerbs, tyre barriers, white lines and a custom pit garages.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z96yovvul5...20holland3.skp

[F1 lobby]

This diverse lay-out contains all aspects of what a real racetrack is about, great job man

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I commend the amount of detail that you have put into this.

I do query about the size of the gravel traps, as being overly large. At the end of the main straight there is 170m+ of gravel. At a real world circuit such as Barcelona there is only 75m of tarmac and gravel runoff combined.
Scaled from that, the other traps are huge as well.

[SKG]

Looks great! It's got a really good look, I may have to steal some of those textures It's cool to see how this project has developed!

I have to agree about the runoff size, however. Some are simply too big.

[F1 lobby]

I agree that the gravel traps of T1, T7, T8, T9, T10 and T12 (the hairpin) are maybe too deep especially at the entries, so the gravel traps of the infield can be downsized but I think Speedingtortoise made them also so big to keep a nice square and equal looking shape. About T1 that's a huge gravel trap and also slightly too big but the space is there and imagine that you approach with nearly 300 km/h and you miss your breaking point completely, than an oversized gravel trap is not undesirable Im curious what Speedingtortoise thinks about this.

And by the way feedback of you guys is very appreciated and will be considered for sure..

[SpeedingTortoise]

The gravel traps are large because with this being a test track I thought safety should be exaggerated. With the likeliness of inexperienced drivers and untested cars I thought that the gravel traps should be bigger than what is needed. It also future-proofs the track as if the track wants to be upgraded for larger race meetings, only the facilities would need to be improved as most of the track already exceeds what it needed.

[SpeedingTortoise]

The final version of this track is now done. The biggest improvements since last time are added elevation, short circuit, dirt track, grandstands and a small lake.
The sketchup file is available to download below (warning: 35mb download and runs very slow with shadows).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nqr49zqm4p...n%20Hills2.skp

Overview of the track


Pit lane


Turn 4 hill


Turn 6


View towards Turn 8


The lake between Turns 9 and 10


Turns 15 and 16


Oval


Dirt track

[SKG]

Bravo

[F1 lobby]

It has been already over a year that I asked you guys to help to design an extension of a real track located in Holland, Speeding Tortoise came up with the best efficient lay out for a cramped space of 1000 x 650 meters. The current track owner, investor and I presented his design made in Sketch Up and the local authorities were very enthousiastic and willing to approve the proposal but due to sound limitations the province board did not want to increase the noise limit to be able to hold at least some international events in sound category A, simular to F1 or MotoGP decibels, which couldn't exceed the maximum of 50Db measured at a distance of 1500 meters from the center point of the track site.
So that's why we had to give up the hope of having a descent new track realised, but now we contacted the province of Flevoland, Holland and their maximum allowed sound level limit is 57Db at the same distance of 1500 meters. That will be just enough to make it possible to organise a mayor international event in sound level category A at least twice a year.

Because SpeedingTortoise told me due to short of time not being able to finish the design any time soon now my proposal to you guys who can extend and optimize the current design in Sketch Up, is to do the job and getting paid of course for completing the presenting project. A dutch game design company SimBim studios will convert the Sketch Up file into a 3D animation to have a professional impression of the design ready to present at the local board of the province of Flevoland and the city of Almere, near Amsterdam, as soon as possible.

I added a pic with slobby sketches of the extension in the current design but all adjustments will be explained, the link to the sketch up file at the dropbox is in the reply of SpeedingTortoise here right above on this page but I think the link is not valid anymore, I can send you the file also in wetransfer if you like to have a look at it first.
Please contact me for further details

[fintard96]

https://www.autobahn.eu/2480/formule...-in-nederland/

Wow, I can't believe that a design from this website is actually possibly going to become a reality! Well done SpeedingTortoise, I remember really liking your design when I first saw it! Quite an encouragement to any budding Tilke-haters slash budding race track designers.