Round 14: ABC Supply 500, Long Pond, PA. August 17-18.

[tux]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Interesting pair of comments here and both very telling. However, this is one of my favorite tracks because its a bit bonkers and unique. Something bad seems to happen at Indy every year, too.

Hope the rest of the day is clean and safe!

Maybe I overreacted in the immediate aftermath but for me I don’t enjoy these oval races as much as I used to. They terrify me and I’m always coming into them hoping no one gets hurt rather than looking forward to some great racing, that’s all on me though.

Anyone know what the black stuff they put in the corners is called? Commentators said it was put down for the NASCAR race but I’m curious as to what it is.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by tux

Maybe I overreacted in the immediate aftermath but for me I don’t enjoy these oval races as much as I used to. They terrify me and I’m always coming into them hoping no one gets hurt rather than looking forward to some great racing, that’s all on me though.



Anyone know what the black stuff they put in the corners is called? Commentators said it was put down for the NASCAR race but I’m curious as to what it is.

No I get it. I don't watch Texas anymore because its terrifying.

Sounds like there's some drivers tweeting and commenting on socials about whether or not we should continue to race here...

For the black stuff, my guess is a sealer of some kind. Quite common at speedways.

[Armco Bender]

The way the cars were all spread wide across the track at the start it was obvious it the first lap was going to end in tears and it did.

[fieldodreams79]

Herta is out.

Edit - and Rossi and RHR are coming back out. Haven't seen something like this in IndyCar in sometime.

Edit x2 - rain is coming!!

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by tux

Maybe I overreacted in the immediate aftermath but for me I don’t enjoy these oval races as much as I used to. They terrify me and I’m always coming into them hoping no one gets hurt rather than looking forward to some great racing, that’s all on me though.

Anyone know what the black stuff they put in the corners is called? Commentators said it was put down for the NASCAR race but I’m curious as to what it is.

No, I feel the same way, particularly about Texas.

It's PJ1 Trackbite, but most still call it by it's former name, VHT. It's track prep for drag racing that Nascar started playing around with a few years ago.

[Armco Bender]

Its going to rain.

[fieldodreams79]

Yep. Caution for lightning and the rain is coming behind it. I think this one is done....

[bjohnsonsmith]

The race has been Red flagged.

[BudLightJaguar]

Severe weather 10 miles away. I think that was it for this years race.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The race has been declared.

[Purist]

Part of me wonders if someone got their sums wrong, and the wall alignment there outside of Turn 2 is too close to vertical, and not tipped in enough to be at 90 degrees to the track surface.

As NASCAR has shown, you can have a "big one" pretty much anywhere except for Martinsville. And a number of the drivers have pointed out that guys need to chill a bit in the opening laps at Pocono. I think it's also fair to point out again, as mentioned earlier, that something nasty-looking tends to happen most years at some point during the Month of May at the Speedway; of course, just about any long-standing racetrack has had a fair few bad accidents over the years. (I'm not saying what happened today was "okay", but I'm not so sure it's a massive outlier, either.)

And yes, I think having more practice for a long race, especially at a super speedway, is likely a good idea.

Another track note I would make is, I don't think those new paved aprons to the wall on the other two straights are exactly helping. That is, they give even more of a perception that there's unlimited space to work with, which psychologically encourages riskier driving.

I don't find Pocono any more terrifying than Indy. Texas and the other 1.5-milers are a bit different, with how those tracks are more corner-radius limited, leading to tighter margins at almost the same speeds and more opportunity to pinball off of walls, the flat apron, and other cars. And Pocono certainly isn't space-limited outright like Dover. (I think there was a reason USAC only went to that track once, in 1969, and the same with Daytona in 1959 and Darlington in 1956.)

And Pocono is one of my favorite ovals; it doesn't feel like a "copy" of someplace else, and it puts on excellent racing when the guys can keep it together. I feel like it's necessary for Indy Cars to have another true super speedway aside from Indy itself, and as for the aforementioned piece, Richmond kind of feels like it would be a "copy" of Iowa; personally, I'd rather see a return of Milwaukee or Loudon. (Maybe somebody needs to build a new trapezoidal oval in the vein of the now-defunct Rio or Rockingham, UK, or change up that form somehow.)

I know it won't happen, but I'm curious just how quickly a modern Indy Car could lap the "flat" Rafaela super speedway oval in Argentina. (Now that place would have scope for some mad slipstreaming battles.)

[Purist]

Watching the onboards, and looking at the alignment with the seam lines in the track, it looks like RHR was trying to come up to have a less shallow entry to Turn 2. Rossi accommodated him, but Sato was coming hot on the outside. Rossi got into the side of Sato, turning him, and RHR, well, he had no idea there was a third car out there until 'it' was hitting the fan.

[fieldodreams79]

Great points about the track, Purist. I think I've seen a big one a Martinsville once or twice and Iowa is actually a copy of Richmond , but good points, nonetheless. And I still love Pocono.

I've seen some comments elsewhere that the walls and fencing at Indy are much different than Pocono; statements that the walls are taller and the fencing? Well, let's just say it's put together better and has likely been upgraded; some of the chain links at Pocono are rustier than than the rust belt.

It will be interesting to see the discussion going forward, but if Taku hadn't "Satoed it", we'd probably be talking about a great race that made the full distance.

Edit - and here's hoping Felix has a speedy recovery.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Result:

Will Power finally gets his first win since Gateway last year and the first of the season but I doubt it's the way he would have wanted it. It was also his third win at Pocono.

Newgarden must be somewhat relieved by Rossi's misfortune. Before today's race he lead Rossi by 16 points. Now he has a lead of 35 points, with three races to go.

Santino Ferrucci had a good race, finishing 4th and Carlin had not too bad a race either, with Kimball and Daly finishing 10th and 11th. It was nice to see TK in the top ten.

It was unfortunate the race ended the way it did, having already been Red flagged on the first lap. With 72 laps left, it was far from over but safety is paramount.


1 Will Power, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 1h53m45.8296s
2 Scott Dixon, Chip Ganassi Racing. Dallara/Honda. 128. 5.4688s
3 Simon Pagenaud, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 7.0950s
4 Santino Ferrucci, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 128. 9.4697s
5 Josef Newgarden, Team Penske. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 10.1771s
6 Ed Carpenter, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 15.4239s
7 Sebastien Bourdais, Dale Coyne Racing. Dallara/Honda. 128. 19.1641s
8 Tony Kanaan, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 23.3941s
9 Graham Rahal, Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Dallara/Honda. 128. 25.2060s
10 Charlie Kimball, Carlin. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 27.4361s
11 Conor Daly, Carlin. Dallara/Chevrolet. 128. 29.2835s
12 Marcus Ericsson, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 128. 32.6051s
13 Zach Veach, Andretti Autosport. 127. 1 Lap
14 Matheus Leist, AJ Foyt Enterprises. Dallara/Chevrolet. 127. 1 Lap
15 Marco Andretti, Andretti Herta. Dallara/Honda. 126. 2 Laps
16 Colton Herta, Harding Racing. Dallara/Honda. 72. Contact
17 Spencer Pigot, Ed Carpenter Racing. Dallara/Chevrolet. 39. Contact
18 Alexander Rossi, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 39. 89 Laps
19 Ryan Hunter-Reay, Andretti Autosport. Dallara/Honda. 25. Contact
20 James Hinchcliffe, Schmidt Peterson Motorsports. Dallara/Honda. 19. Contact
21 Takuma Sato, Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Dallara/Honda. 0. Contact
22 Felix Rosenqvist, Chip Ganassi Racing. 0. Contact

[broadrun96]

It does sound like everyone around Indycars thinks this was it for Pocono. It feels like there are a lot of small things that just add up to make the incidents at Pocono end more horrifically than Indy or Texas. I think someone on Racer had pointed out the walls aren't set the same as other tracks, think they were saying they're are laidback at closer to 90 degrees from level not the track surface. And well we have seen what they use for both patch a hole (gate ripped from somewhere else since all chain link is the same right?) and hold the fence up (zip ties can fix everything that duct tape can't right?) for repairs. You have to wonder what else we would find with a full slow roll camera tour of the fencing, I think it would scare us all.

It sounds like an interesting old friend will be back and Indy will head to Richmond next year. I always liked Richmond, especially racing under the lights. But as a track it doesn't add much since isn't Iowa an almost direct copy?

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

They are using zip ties to attach a chain link fencing panel to the catch fence AGAIN.

That is inexcusable. I'm beyond words.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And well we have seen what they use for both patch a hole (gate ripped from somewhere else since all chain link is the same right?) and hold the fence up (zip ties can fix everything that duct tape can't right?) for repairs.

I actually thought JH was kidding at first.

I didn't see the race but Sato taking some flak: Here's how drivers saw the Lap 1 incident.

[Akrapovic]

Sato didn't move as much as he appears to. However, of the 3 cars that started it, he's the only one who was fully aware of where the other 2 cars were. I feel like he really should have given more room given he entered the situation at speed and was aware of the other 2 cars.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Sato didn't move as much as he appears to. However, of the 3 cars that started it, he's the only one who was fully aware of where the other 2 cars were. I feel like he really should have given more room given he entered the situation at speed and was aware of the other 2 cars.

Watching the footage from Rossi's car, Sato lunges down the inside but misjudges the space between Rossi's car and the wall, and his left rear tyre catches Rossi's front right.

https://youtu.be/U-N87XZW_wQ

[bjohnsonsmith]

There are mixed responses from some of the drivers in this article. While the top three finishers defend the race and I don't think they are defending it because they are the top three finishers, there is a tweet from Robert Wickens calling for an end to it.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/145456

[Nikki Katz]

This can’t be good pr for the track or the series. I doubt it’ll return after this. I must admit that I always feel nervous before this race. I’ve only just seen the race now, but the incident made the front page of the bbc, so I was aware of another crash (they only ever report crashes). I think it was pretty fortunate that rosenqvist didn’t properly end up in the fence like wickens. I realise that it was a stupid move from sato and the Wilson accident could’ve happened at any oval, but I really don’t like seeing that. Could they not at least make the wall a bit higher in the corners? Though i’d still like to see catch fences looked at in general.

[broadrun96]

Thankfully we can have a reasonable discussion here. Every time it makes it to an article on Racer it becomes the don't race if you're afraid bs. The track isn't faster than Indy but when things happen at Indy you don't see cars climb the fence, the walls seem to bring the car back down. There's just something about Pocono that leads drivers to be "braver" possibly crazier with all that real estate going in to the Tunnel turn and mid-corner realize that move wasn't going to work. I think sadly Indy cars have just out grown the track as it is now, but I think Texas is close to the same boat but newer so some things are upgraded. I think Indy having to step in and stop this repair last season may be the sign this is over and no news announcement of an extension at the track is not a good sign for the track and they lost the second Cup date for 2020 too. Picture from Robin Miller's article this afternoon on Racer.

[JHamilton]

They said on the radio that the fence was repaired properly but I never saw a picture of that. If I were the facility manager, after the lessons learned and embarrassment from last year, I would have had at least four 10x100ft rolls of chain link, cordless drills/rebar tying tools, and an ITC front loader ready to go. "It will never happen two years in a row." Don't be this guy because it always happens two years in a row.

Regarding the Rossi/RHR/Sato crash, after seeing most of the relays, I am unable to point the finger at any of them. I also can't blame Sato for going high either. I mean, the green flag is out and give him 6" more room and everyone is talking about a great pass instead.

[S griffin]

Maybe Sato’s reputation comes before him, but seeing the onboards, it was only a slight misjudgement that led to big consequences. They all need to be careful in future

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Nikki Katz

but the incident made the front page of the bbc, so I was aware of another crash (they only ever report crashes).

This is the bigger take away. In the last 2 consecutive races and 3 of the last 5, IndyCar has made "the news" (not good for a sport to be actual NEWS news). This year being more of a blip, than the other 2 incidents. Driving standards and track safety aside, this isn't good for the sport. However, there was a previous post where it was made out that IndyCar was promoting the danger of it. I can't speak to that because I don't watch much TV or pay attention anymore.

Regardless, I'd be fine with either decision the series made but it won't be made anytime soon. That said, I'm getting the feeling that Pocono needs to change quick or it may go dormant. Or worse.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

This is the bigger take away. In the last 2 consecutive races and 3 of the last 5, IndyCar has made "the news" (not good for a sport to be actual NEWS news). This year being more of a blip, than the other 2 incidents. Driving standards and track safety aside, this isn't good for the sport. However, there was a previous post where it was made out that IndyCar was promoting the danger of it. I can't speak to that because I don't watch much TV or pay attention anymore.

Regardless, I'd be fine with either decision the series made but it won't be made anytime soon. That said, I'm getting the feeling that Pocono needs to change quick or it may go dormant. Or worse.

Pocono has only one NASCAR Cup race next year, so it would seem something is amiss.