[BTCC] Round Four, Thruxton 03-04 Jun, Races 10,11&12

[SSmith]

FP2 complete.

Cook fastest again (1min 15.411 secs) by 0.516 seconds from Ingram. Great effort by Thompson to be 3rd.

Top 10:

Cook
Ingram
Thompson
Rowbottom
Hill
Sutton
Collard
Cammish
Moffat
Taylor-Smith

Looking forward to qualifying later this afternoon

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by SSmith

FP2 complete.

Cook fastest again (1min 15.411 secs) by 0.516 seconds from Ingram. Great effort by Thompson to be 3rd.

Start a count for how many times “King of Thruxton” will be said tomorrow! Of course it’s only free practice and sure I’m sure Sutton and co. will take the fight to qualifying, but Cook looks worlds ahead so far. Hope he can grab a win or two to put another name in the title fight. Hope Thompson can keep it around there too.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Start a count for how many times “King of Thruxton” will be said tomorrow! Of course it’s only free practice and sure I’m sure Sutton and co. will take the fight to qualifying, but Cook looks worlds ahead so far. Hope he can grab a win or two to put another name in the title fight. Hope Thompson can keep it around there too.

Haha, it'll be said lots of times I would imagine! I'm also looking forward to seeing how the Fords + Ingram fight back in qualifying. I'm not the biggest fan of Thruxton but I am really looking forward to this weekend.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Not so much the Trophy - how many red flags are we betting on this time!

After less than 1 lap of their first race of the weekend they are under a safety car...

[Evantra]

Penalties!

- Collard verbally warned for a Snetterton incident.

- -5 points for Thompson for an engine change

- -10 points for Halstead for an engine change

https://www.barc.net/online_noticebo...xton-june-3-4/

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Penalties!

- -5 points for Thompson for an engine change

- -10 points for Halstead for an engine change

https://www.barc.net/online_noticebo...xton-june-3-4/

Wow. Thompson is now on 47 points and Halstead is on -6 points

[porsche962fan]

what a depressing show, one guy just being so far ahead of anyone else

[Evantra]

Incredible from Doble, where did he come from! I know the Astras are quick round Thruxton but that’s definitely a surprise! See if he can hold position tomorrow. In fact all 3 PMR in the top ten.

Ingram 2nd and the next best Hyundai in 18th.

Cook 3rd and the next best Honda in 17th.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Incredible from Doble, where did he come from! I know the Astras are quick round Thruxton but that’s definitely a surprise! See if he can hold position tomorrow. In fact all 3 PMR in the top ten.

Ingram 2nd and the next best Hyundai in 18th.

Cook 3rd and the next best Honda in 17th.

Mega shock! He could allow the top 3 to get a break on the BMWs in Race 1.

There's an element of talent coming to the fore I think

[CaptRustyNail]

Originally Posted by SSmith

Wow. Thompson is now on 47 points and Halstead is on -6 points

What is Halstead doing? Seems to have an engine change every round

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

[Trebor902]

Absolutely huge crash in the mini challenge trophy due to pathetic tyre stacks at the chicane. Disgusting that they still insist on using them

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Trebor902

Absolutely huge crash in the mini challenge trophy due to pathetic tyre stacks at the chicane. Disgusting that they still insist on using them

I haven't seen footage of this incident, however I would suggest that the fault doesn't lie with the tyre stack per se but with the pathetic driving standards in some of the supporting series and some of those drivers insist on hitting them. One must bear in mind that the stack is stationary, unless hit, and the drivers are all aware of the fact that it is there.

And they are there for a simple reason, and that's to stop drivers abusing track limits. That is why they red flagged the BTCC qualifying because Cammish, I think it was, nudged the stack and immediately drivers started to short cut the chicane, thus abusing track limits.

What, might I ask, would you propose that they put in place of the tyre stacks. I think that the only other real alternative would be to place Armco at all chicanes although I would not suggest that they do. Mind you, didn't Thruxton try that many years ago and I assume that they are not there now is because drivers kept on damaging their cars on the barriers.

[Trebor902]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I haven't seen footage of this incident, however I would suggest that the fault doesn't lie with the tyre stack per se but with the pathetic driving standards in some of the supporting series and some of those drivers insist on hitting them. One must bear in mind that the stack is stationary, unless hit, and the drivers are all aware of the fact that it is there.

And they are there for a simple reason, and that's to stop drivers abusing track limits. That is why they red flagged the BTCC qualifying because Cammish, I think it was, nudged the stack and immediately drivers started to short cut the chicane, thus abusing track limits.

What, might I ask, would you propose that they put in place of the tyre stacks. I think that the only other real alternative would be to place Armco at all chicanes although I would not suggest that they do. Mind you, didn't Thruxton try that many years ago and I assume that they are not there now is because drivers kept on damaging their cars on the barriers.

I get what you're saying but there has to be a better way than tyre stacks that roll cars that then get hit in the roof by 6 other cars....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Trebor902

I get what you're saying but there has to be a better way than tyre stacks that roll cars that then get hit in the roof by 6 other cars....

This is the problem that is caused by drivers believing that they can slipstream through tight corners and chicanes; you can't, I believe. Take for example last year at Croft BTCC meeting. I was sat overlooking the chicane, and three races had to be either red flagged or had safety cars for the sole reason that too many cars were all bunched up almost bumper to bumper.

What then happened is the first car hits or just nudges the tyre stacks and the following drivers can't see what has happened and one after another they all hit the stack. As a previously experienced saloon car racer, albeit 55 odd years ago, I could tell what was about to happen and it did. That's not the fault of the tyre stacks; that is because of poor driving and a lack of driving discipline which does seem to be all too prevalent nowadays.

I don't know what is said nowadays to drivers at their briefings which are held at every meeting. However, when I raced in the 60s, we were told in no uncertain terms what was expected of us in terms of driving discipline. And woe betide and competitor who didn't follow those instructions from the Clerk of the Course (and/or is now called a race director). No such thing that I can remember of a black and white flag telling you to behave; it was a straight black flag and that was the end of you day's racing.

Because of that, and possibly because I and most of my fellow competitors actually paid for our racing out of our, usually, meagre wages so we respected each other out on the track. There was no such thing as "rubbing", knocking of other's door handles or mirrors and certainly no push to pass. In probably 100 races that I participated in over 5 years, there was not one scratch or dent on my car. That was achieved from "fighting" in the pack, often up at the sharp end, not running at the back; competing with the likes of Gerry Marshall whom became a great friend.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

This is the problem that is caused by drivers believing that they can slipstream through tight corners and chicanes; you can't, I believe. Take for example last year at Croft BTCC meeting. I was sat overlooking the chicane, and three races had to be either red flagged or had safety cars for the sole reason that too many cars were all bunched up almost bumper to bumper.

What then happened is the first car hits or just nudges the tyre stacks and the following drivers can't see what has happened and one after another they all hit the stack. As a previously experienced saloon car racer, albeit 55 odd years ago, I could tell what was about to happen and it did. That's not the fault of the tyre stacks; that is because of poor driving and a lack of driving discipline which does seem to be all too prevalent nowadays.

I don't know what is said nowadays to drivers at their briefings which are held at every meeting. However, when I raced in the 60s, we were told in no uncertain terms what was expected of us in terms of driving discipline. And woe betide and competitor who didn't follow those instructions from the Clerk of the Course (and/or is now called a race director). No such thing that I can remember of a black and white flag telling you to behave; it was a straight black flag and that was the end of you day's racing.

Because of that, and possibly because I and most of my fellow competitors actually paid for our racing out of our, usually, meagre wages so we respected each other out on the track. There was no such thing as "rubbing", knocking of other's door handles or mirrors and certainly no push to pass. In probably 100 races that I participated in over 5 years, there was not one scratch or dent on my car. That was achieved from "fighting" in the pack, often up at the sharp end, not running at the back; competing with the likes of Gerry Marshall whom became a great friend.

I'm a current club lvl racer.... and I've seen that as soon as someone else is paying for the racing (sponsorship) that's when the standards go out the window. I'm 42 and self fund, and when I race with others of comparable experience it's a pretty good weekend.

But as soon as some of the younger guys get involved on someone else's cheque book.... it goes to pot.

I've been in really good driver briefings (c1 Endurance or example....standards really improved after the club was taken over by Robin) and I've also been is **** poor ones where not much has been said (i'll keep those championships under wraps for now).

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Trebor902

I get what you're saying but there has to be a better way than tyre stacks that roll cars that then get hit in the roof by 6 other cars....

If there is, how much would it cost and how quickly could it be repaired after an impact?

Tyres, for all their issues, are (relatively) quick, cheap and easy to replace.

[ahobson98]

I was watching the GT4 European Series earlier and the commentators were saying that the cars were fitted with ultra accurate GPS units, such that track limits could be enforced when the GPS device showed as being outside track limits. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxACpGtwddM) 12 mins 55 ish into the video.

If this technology is being used effectively at a European level, surely it could be looked at for some national level series - the TOCA package would be an ideal place to start.

The only issue I can see is cost, however as with any technology, the cost should come down with more people using it.

The more well explored alternative would be pressure pads and cameras.


Obviously these solutions wouldn't stop stupid driving, but would prevent cars getting launched off of tyre stacks.

[v8supes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

what a depressing show, one guy just being so far ahead of anyone else

Have to admit that i was almost feeling abit like "why bother watching" race 1 and 2 tomorrow. We know who will win and Thruxton doesn't always tend to produce good racing.

At least the silly tyre rules are not here this weekend.

As for the chicane, it used to rip the sumps off of the Clios and cause huge multicar accidents too. Maybe they need to change it.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by v8supes

As for the chicane, it used to rip the sumps off of the Clios and cause huge multicar accidents too. Maybe they need to change it.

The simple answer is that drivers need to display discipline and not attempt "daring" overtaking when in reality no opportunity is present without the potential of at least one car having to take drastic avoiding action.

The chicane has been there for decades - I think that I can remember it being there in some form or another when I raced at Thruxton in the 60s - and if drivers drove as if they had to pay for any repairs from crashes or contact, then they would stop these types of antics.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Incredible from Doble, where did he come from! I know the Astras are quick round Thruxton but that’s definitely a surprise! See if he can hold position tomorrow. In fact all 3 PMR in the top ten.

Ingram 2nd and the next best Hyundai in 18th.

Cook 3rd and the next best Honda in 17th.

From Autosport (https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...reak/10478013/)

On a terrific day for Power Maxed, Andrew Watson pipped Taylor-Smith as all three of the Astras ended up in the top eight – the TOCA customer engines run by this team and the Team Hard Cupra Leons have been allowed 0.2 bar more boost this weekend

[Adam43]

Interestingly 10-10ths new AI moderator has just put this thread on a high priority list!
/mod

[S griffin]

Sutton once again fastest, but today could be a different story. King of Thruxton Cookie only third. Nice to see all 3 Astras in the top 10.

[v8supes]

Might as well give Sutton the title now.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Might as well give Sutton the title now.

You think we won't leave R27 with at least 3 drivers in contention?

[v8supes]

Cant doubt anything but i cant see it. Sutton seems to be another level compared to others in the series. Cant even say its the car because hes done this everywhere hes driven.