so who's the best of all time?

[Casper]

Are we talking touring drivers exclusively here, as there are some really prominent names missing from these lists who never drove tin tops. As for sedans how about Morris and Grice? The most enjoyable to watch was Cosby doing commentary from the car, he wasn't the absolute quickest but he was good value. Any of the top drivers from series prod were good, they had to be to get those evil things around a track as well as they did. As someone said earlier, it is not possible to compare eras.

[FORDSTAR1]

Ambrose , Moffat , Big Pete in that order.

[Senna05]

OK, I'm putting my flak jacket on here.....

I've seen some "Ford Fans" say that Brock will only ever be reemmber for Bathurst (Bulldust!).

So, ergo, does this mean that Ambrose will only be remembered here for a stepping stone to NASCAR?

I think the guy is a great driver, but will he ultimately be remembered with the longevity of other 2 time champions? (IE, Seton?)

Great, yes - Best of all time? Over the Brocks, Richards', Skaife's, Moffat's, and both geoghans?

Bit of a stretch there, my friend!

Anyway, if we want to throw Sports Sedans in and you HAVE to include Ricciadello!

What about Production? Mr Fitzgerald was rather proliffic.

GT Racing? Well, we get a Mr Richards that pops to mind in Porsches and the such. Mr Bowe won a few in a Ferrari.

Can the mods maybe clarify this thread a little more for us?

[billy bigtime]

Moffat, Brock, Jane, Richards, Johnson, Lowndes, Skaife, in that order.
Longhurst? Good right fist. And I am talking about fighting.

[Pro Racer]

just ask Morris.

[Senna05]

Was it right or left?

Either way, Paul Tracey Syndrome - why the HECK punch someone with a helmet on? Come on!

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by Senna05

Was it right or left?

Either way, Paul Tracey Syndrome - why the HECK punch someone with a helmet on? Come on!

So he (Longhurst) could ring the BELL!!

That would be the only way anyone would ever get Morris's attention!

Mike

[Senna05]

Well, looking at his performances in recent years, I honestly think it didn't......

[SSbaby]

Brock easily, IMHO.

[SSbaby]

My mother always told me "if I don't have anything nice to say, not to say anything".

Except on this occasion I will say that Moffat was waaaay overrated!

[Chatters]

Clearly, David Thexton is the greatest of all time.

End of discussion. Mods, close this thread.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Clearly, David Thexton is the greatest of all time.

End of discussion. Mods, close this thread.

I thought you'd say Rodney Forbes, for sure.

[Suttory]

Threxton, Forbes, Romano, Neal, all worthy additions to the V8 Supercar Hall of Fame. In fact, I recall Forbes and Romano fighting for it at Phillip Island in 2002........ In real World terms, Brock, Lowndes, Skaife, Geoghan, Moffat, Johnson, Richards, Seton, its so hard to choose. I think i'll let this one rest. Maybe Kim Jones mate out the back would know ?

[Wrighty05]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

My mother always told me "if I don't have anything nice to say, not to say anything".

Except on this occasion I will say that Moffat was waaaay overrated!

Really. I believe Brock and Richards were the best I've seen but I always thought Moffat was WAY better than Johnson.

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by Wrighty05

Brock, Richards, Pete Geoghegan, Moffat, Lowndes, Skaife.

That's my 6 and you can take them in any order.

As far as a top 6 goes, I'd say that looks about right to me...

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally Posted by Wrighty05

Really. I believe Brock and Richards were the best I've seen but I always thought Moffat was WAY better than Johnson.

Always a hard thing to pick when Moffat drove mostly for a well funded works team vs DJ driving for essentially an reasonably funded privateer team.
Interestingly, DJ was able to put Brock in his place in the early 80's, and thats DJ privateer vs Brock quasi factory.

If one doesn't slip DJ into the list, then i'd suggest some are basing there thoughts on media hype and/or number of wins only.

Moffat overrated?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Wrighty05

Really. I believe Brock and Richards were the best I've seen but I always thought Moffat was WAY better than Johnson.

Moffat use to run into other cars (backmarkers) quite a bit. That's a sign of a less than 'perfect' driver.

Btw, I voted Brock because I had never seen the guy overdrive or run into others or spin his cars. Not even when they were uncompetitive. Except for later in his career (i.e. age: 50+ years). Rarely do you see a leading driver do that!

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

Always a hard thing to pick when Moffat drove mostly for a well funded works team vs DJ driving for essentially an reasonably funded privateer team.
Interestingly, DJ was able to put Brock in his place in the early 80's, and thats DJ privateer vs Brock quasi factory.

If one doesn't slip DJ into the list, then i'd suggest some are basing there thoughts on media hype and/or number of wins only.

Moffat overrated?

I certainly wouldn't say Moffat was overrated when it came to complaining about the rules not suiting his cars. He was definitely best on that count.

DJ: Ever seen the racecam footage of DJ in his Shell Sierra at Sandown in 87? If he wasn't sh!t scared i don't know how else to describe it! He is not even in the same class as Brock/Richards IMHO.

[Conrod Kieron]

So, you don't have any reason to support your Moff claim, just a dig at him?

and your basing your opinion of DJ being **** scared at Sandown? not sure thats got anything to do with DJ's driving/car setup capabilities. I do know that DJ beat both JR and PB whilst they were both in essentially factory teams and has more touring car championship to his name than either of them. Come to think of it, so does Moff.

I'd be interested in your fuller thoughrs on why they arn't as good.

[SSbaby]

DJ is good at car setup? I thought JB was the reason why DJR was so successful?

DJ won more ch/ships than PB? Wasn't PB disqualified from the championship one year and the title awarded to DJ? In 1984, didn't PB contest some Lemans races and virtually hand DJ the title even though Brocky nearly won all the ch/ship races he contested that year? It didn't matter as PB cleaned up at Sandown and Bathurst that year!

DJR was sh!t scared in his hi-po Sierra - the look on his face was all fear... and this guy is supposed to be a professional race car driver? Sorry, there is a big difference in class between PB and DJ.

There's many drivers who believe Moffat was good but not great. I'm not saying anything new. Was he a professional with the way he went about his motorsport? Absolutely!!! But as a driver he had his flaws (I mentioned one).

[racer69]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

DJR was sh!t scared in his hi-po Sierra - the look on his face was all fear... and this guy is supposed to be a professional race car driver? Sorry, there is a big difference in class between PB and DJ.

Was it a scared look on his face at Sandown in 1987, or was it more he was just p1ssed that he was in the backup car and not his own?

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I certainly wouldn't say Moffat was overrated when it came to complaining about the rules not suiting his cars. He was definitely best on that count.

Considering the way things have been since 1993, perhaps he was just ahead of his time....

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by racer69

Was it a scared look on his face at Sandown in 1987, or was it more he was just p1ssed that he was in the backup car and not his own?

He was definitely talking to himself with a tight jaw and open eyes. I don't think the backup car would have been on his mind during his stint... That car had massive traction issues - too much power for the chassis - it demanded maximum concentration.

Originally Posted by racer69

Considering the way things have been since 1993, perhaps he was just ahead of his time....

Yes, Moffat was certainly the consummate professional, giving his sponsors maximum exposure. Whenever he spoke on camera he'd always mention his sponsors... even down to the grid girls he organised, wearing his sponsor's livery. A lot of people used to say he looked r00ted whenever he stepped out of the car but I doubt it had anything to do with the grid girls.

[Henry]

Lauda.


Got a BMW around the Nurburgring under 8 minutes in nineteen-seventy-something (first tourer under 8 min), and then capped it with the first sib 7-minute lap in the 312 Ferarri in 1975 IIRC. And anyone who's willing to set their head on fire for motorsport is a bloody legend in my book.

Anyway, I guess we're really interested in the local yokels, aren't we? Haberfield Fats gets my vote for the biggest legend, and no pun intended. In the times of night racing and handicap events at Oran Park, promoter Allan Horsley handicapped Big Pete one night, so that in order to win, he'd have to be under the lap record every time around... apparently the white Mustang spent a loong time with its headlight illuminating the infield as the big bloke slid her around. The footage on him in the Series Proddie XW at Warwick Farm in 1970 is incredible... to have seen him in his prime, doing the sort of lunatic thing he did (like saving the 'Stang at Catalina, when a control arm let go as he tipped her into Bosch, or running a practice time 3 seconds better than the eventual pole at Bathurst in 1977) must have been something.

WHile you can't deny Brock's towering natural ability, much of his success could be attributed to good engineering too... his years in the wilderness were largely dry ones.

Johnson? Scared? He may well have been, but exhibitions like most of his Hardies Heroes laps showed that he could swallow any fear that may have been there quite effectively when required. Anyway he did drive some scary units... ask him sometime about how the cords in the big crossplies on the back of the XE in its last year used to let go under load as he screamed under the bridge at Surfers... or how it felt to drive the fastest Sierras in the world?

Similarly with Moffat: every man and his dog claims that Marvin had to psyche himself up to compete with the "naturals", but he didn't seem to have too much trouble with that, did he? He might've belted a few backmarkers, but back in the days, that sort of thing was a lot more acceptable than now, and Moffat then as now, wasn't a man to suffer fools gladly.

The recent guys, the Lowndeses, Skaifes, Tanders, Ambroses, Kellys etc etc would all have to be regarded as being good enough... Bright could well have been exceptional (is exceptional depending on who you're chatting with) but for his nomadic career path... still he looked pretty pacy in a car that had probably never been so quick in its life last year...

If you really want a quintessential driver, one who'll get into ANYTHING and drive it to win, who's too busy either racing, or planning to race, or thinking about racing to go around blowing his own trumpet, who through deeds rather than words, simply defines what it must be to be the Driver's Driver, you can't really go past Our Jum. The guy was weaned on Castrol XL, left Michelin skid marks in his nappies as a baby, and has shown that at the age of 147, he still knows how to drive within both himself and the car, while caning the guts out of whatever he's in.

[RotorFan]

I haven't been around motorsport since the beginning of time like everyone else seems to be, so I would say Mark Skaife (and Jim Richards and Peter Brock) for ATCC, Des Wall for Sports Sedans (Ricciadello has yet to prove himself to perform with other equipment), Rodney Crick for Supertrucks, Allan Simonsen for GT, Tommi Makkinen for WRC, and have to mention Jim Richards, Paul Morris and Mattias Ekstrom for their all-round ability.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by Henry

Lauda.

WHile you can't deny Brock's towering natural ability, much of his success could be attributed to good engineering too... his years in the wilderness were largely dry ones.

I guess the same is even truer for Gentleman Jim. When has GJ ever had a bad car?

Don't forget the David/Goliath effort with the Torana XU1 (fragile things) and the years when Brocky was a privateer. It took a special breed of driver to beat the factory team back then. You cannot say the same for Jim, he always had great machinery to work with during his peak especially as a works driver. There was a time when he played second fiddle to Skaife... but GJ was probably past his best and Skaife was on the rise. Anyway, I agree it's hard to split Brock and Richards in talent.

The funny thing about Johnson was that even though he looked scared at the wheel of the Sierra, he was to become one of the fastest Sierra pilots in the world. Remember when Johnson took his fastest Sierra (reputedly the quickest Sierra in the world at the time) to England and was leading the field... until an engine problem ended his chances? Maybe Johnson took longer to get a feel for the car?

On the subject of Moffat, I recall Brocky saying he had a satisfying race day whenever he beat Moffat. Moffat was a man who was very demanding, be it on his team, his car, the officials... he didn't take short cuts in his relentless pursuit to win.