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18 Aug 2003, 08:04 (Ref:1557304) | #26 | ||
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I missed one post:
374-014 - Lew Wade car first appearing for the Van Heusen series in 1974 as a F3 with a 1300cc Brian Sampson Toyota Corolla; later Paul King for F3; later Jack Klaver in AF2 between 1981 and 1985 and highly modified by 1985 |
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18 Aug 2003, 09:46 (Ref:1557305) | #27 | ||
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Allen.
Malcolm Ramsay has no records. Malcolm can't remember the specifics that we need . I have another source , John Holmes , who owns about 5/6 of the cars, but don't have time at the moment to carry further.. Regards Bryan. |
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21 Aug 2003, 12:16 (Ref:1557307) | #28 | ||
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Tony Alcock article
I found the following Tony Alcock article in a magazine:
"I always liken designers, fabricators and mechanics as the racing equivalent to a TV production team. We know that the actors get most of the kudos and recognition, but of course the truth of the matter is that without firstly, the script writer, then the producer, director, film crew and so on, then the actor would be nowhere. Now, although the modern-day race driver is an important part of the final product, it is the men behind him. the fabricators, welders, machinists, fibreglass men, painters, platers, etc., who make up the initial 80 per cent. of the total effort. It is our job, Mal Ramsay and myself, at Birrana Cars to assemble all these tradesmen in the correct sequence to present a product such as a 2/374 range of cars. Basically our respective roles are something like this: Starting with the previous year's car, we decide on the areas which we feel need improvement and together with experiments which we have tried in some form or another during the year. we begin to formu-late some sort of basic outline for our new model. At this stage I usually work at home so that work can be achieved without inter- ruption enabling the car to be drawn up as quickly as possible. Whilst I do most of the basic design work. I reckon that two heads are better than one, so there is constant communication between Mal and myself. At the same time as the drawings start coming through. he is organising supply of raw materials, radiator suppliers, rack and pinion assemblies, pattern makers, etc. From the basic chassis drawings which comprise an overall side and top elevation, there are detailed ones made of each bulkhead and suspension pickups, rear frames, suspension systems, body shape, etc. From these more detailed drawings, Brian Farguar. our welder, con-structs the chassis and suspension jigs and from these the bulkheads and wishbones. Mike lobanof machines the chassis and suspension bushes, discs, wheels, castings and so on, John Porter, our "March" immigre. specialises in detail fabrication such as wing brackets, radius arms, parrallel link brackets, header tanks, etc. I usually fold up the tubs and Mal and I both-attack the body mock-up prior to him doing the moulds. Our other man, Peter Nightingale, <;an usually be found stripping and rebuilding our existing cars as well as maintaining our Hart engines and Hewland gearboxes. All this. of course, is an oversimplification of the effort and just plain hard yakka, which often means an ainighter or two, but it is the general scene, which goes on at Elfin's or Bowin's or any other manu-facturer. As you can see it really isn't very exciting or glamorous all this back-room work. but to us it's all worth it as the frustrations and heartaches suddenly vanish .when our sparkling new creation is wheeled out to the start line ready for its first race." Chris. www.MotorsportArchive.com |
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22 Aug 2003, 07:56 (Ref:1557308) | #29 | ||
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Allen
The car Geoff Brabham raced in the 1975 Autralian Formula 2 Championship was the ex Neil Rear Car 274-018. The Geoghegan car of 274-015 went to Alfredo Costanzo in 1975. Curt |
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22 Aug 2003, 22:18 (Ref:1557309) | #30 | ||||
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Quote:
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David, Curt - do you know your original sources for these identifications? Allen |
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22 Aug 2003, 23:50 (Ref:1557310) | #31 | ||
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Allen,
I got my source from the Australian Competition Yearbook 1976 Edition, and it also mentions it in a Racing Car News race report. When i was younger i assumed the Brabham car was the Geoghegan car as they both ran the same livery. Having done some checking though, Neil Rears car suddenly doesnt appear in any races in 1975 race reports even in WA and SA racing where he usually competed. Allen, would you like the full championship results for 74 and 75, i can email them to you if you like. |
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23 Aug 2003, 06:15 (Ref:1557311) | #32 | ||
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Sorry Allen, can't remember and it's a bit difficult to check on oiginal sources in the time available (ie, nil).
Without discounting the Neil Rear connection, I would just say that WA cars tended to be sold in WA, though that of course doesn't preclude this particular car's sale to the east |
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23 Aug 2003, 07:24 (Ref:1557312) | #33 | ||
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All .
I rang Neil Rear over in W.A. He sold car to Geoff Brabham , as that is the case ,as I suspected , then car went to Ray Winter to replace ex. Mildren Yellow Submarine, and is now in hands of John Holmes in Toowoomba Qld. Bryan. |
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23 Aug 2003, 10:46 (Ref:1557313) | #34 | ||
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Thanks Bryan
That's that then! (and I don't have to face the prospect of trying to find my references) |
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23 Aug 2003, 20:47 (Ref:1557314) | #35 | ||||
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And thanks Bryan - that's a wonderfully direct no-nonsense approach to resolving a problem! Allen |
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23 Aug 2003, 21:00 (Ref:1557315) | #36 | ||
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Another summary of where we've got to
272-??? - Ramsey and guests in 1972
272-??? - Brock 1972 - Zampatti ... three other early cars unknown 273-006 - Unknown 1973 - Unknown 1974 ... Dean Hosking (UK) 1975 273-007 - Geoghegan 1973 (‘works’ entry in Singapore 1973), then Tony Stewart ANF2, Don Ubergang 73/74 273-008 - Brock 1973 - Zampatti - Creasy 273-009 - Unknown 1973 ... Buesselmann & Muir 1974; UK 1975; tub may have been used for Minos F2 273-010 - Malcolm Ramsay 1973 ('works' car) and Geoghegan at Macau, then Crawford 19?? ... Chas Talbot 1981 374-011 - F3 to John Blanden for Dean Hosking in Aust. 274-012 - Prejawa 1974 ... (then who?) 374-013 - Unknown (F3 based, BUT with 1600cc ford pushrod) 374-014 - Lew Wade 1974 (for Van Heusen series as F3 with a 1300cc Brian Sampson Toyota Corolla) ... later Paul King for F3 ... later Jack Klaver in AF2 between 1981 and 1985 and highly modified by 1985 274-015 - Geoghegan 1974 (works car) - Alfredo Costanzo 1975 274-016 - Talbot 1974 ... Baker; believed destroyed in Baker’s 1977 Wigram crash 274-017 - Allison 1974 ... (then who?) 274-018 - Neil Rear 1974 (1600cc twin cam) - Geoff Brabham 1975 - Ray Winter to replace ex. Mildren Yellow Submarine, and is now in hands of John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 376-020 - F3 1976 A78-020 - Ramsey 1978 AA71/1 - First FF I've highlighted a few gaps above - quite a few of the early cars have patchy histories. It's amazing how much we've assembled. Allen |
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26 Aug 2003, 01:54 (Ref:1557316) | #37 | ||
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Allen,
The Bruce Allison Birrana 274-017 went to Len Goodwin in mid 1975 who came out of a 4 yr retirement. Also Jim Evans in a Birrana 374 F3 in 1974, raced as a F3 with Corolla power then a Ford Crossflow. Was badly bent at Amaroo Park, and the tub was replaced, no chassis number. Then had another accident at Oran park and was sold in this condition to Richard Steigler who then sold it to Paul McCurdy in 1975 who fitted a Honda engine to it. Chassis 374-11 the John Blanden owned car driven by Dean Hosking was sold to Ian Cook, who brought the car for its spare engine. Then sold to Richard Steigler who then sold it to David Booth. Peter Warren in a Birrana 273, 75-76 (its called a 374 in 75 and a 273, then a 274 in 76??), i think its safe to say its a 273, going by most of the race reports of 1976, i just have to work out who's car it is..... HELP Car 274-015 ex Geoghegan/Costanzo went to Greame Smith early 1976 I'll keep working on this guys Curt |
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26 Aug 2003, 02:26 (Ref:1557317) | #38 | ||
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Another one............
Bill Stoddart purchased a brand new Birrana 374 from the works in mid 1976, and installed a Corolla engine into it. Could this be the 376????? Curt |
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26 Aug 2003, 05:01 (Ref:1557318) | #39 | ||
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Im back
Allen i have taken your list and filled some gaps, well tried anyway, this is hard, lol 272-??? - Ramsey and guests in 1972 272-??? - Brock 1972 - Zampatti ... three other early cars unknown 273-006 - Unknown 1973 - Unknown 1974 ... Dean Hosking (UK) 1975 273-007 - Geoghegan 1973 (‘works’ entry in Singapore 1973), then Tony Stewart ANF2, Don Ubergang 73/74 273-008 - Brock 1973 - Zampatti - Creasy 273-009 - Unknown 1973 ... Buesselmann & Muir 1974; UK 1975; tub may have been used for Minos F2 273-010 - Malcolm Ramsay 1973 ('works' car) and Geoghegan at Macau, then Crawford 1974-78 sold to Barry Ward 79 then ... Chas Talbot 1981 374-011 - F3 to John Blanden for Dean Hosking in Aust.Ian Cook, who brought the car for its spare engine. Then sold to Richard Steigler who then sold it to David Booth 274-012 - Prejawa 1974 ... (then who?) 374-013 - Jim Evans in a Birrana 374 F3 in 1974, raced as a F3 with Corolla power then a Ford Crossflow. Was badly bent at Amaroo Park, and the tub was replaced, no chassis number. Then had another accident at Oran park and was sold in this condition to Richard Steigler who then sold it to Paul McCurdy in 1975 who fitted a Honda engine to it. Then to Joe Vorst in 1979 who was reportedly fitting a Datsun engine to it. 374-014 - Lew Wade 1974 (for Van Heusen series as F3 with a 1300cc Brian Sampson Toyota Corolla) ... later Paul King for F3 ... later Jack Klaver in AF2 between 1981 and 1985 and highly modified by 1985 274-015 - Geoghegan 1974 (works car) - Alfredo Costanzo 1975, to Greame Smith mid 1976 to 82, then to Neil Richardson late 82 who still had the car in 86 274-016 - Talbot 1974 ... Baker; believed destroyed in Baker’s 1977 Wigram crash 274-017 - Allison 1974 , Len Goodwin in mid 1975 274-018 - Neil Rear 1974 (1600cc twin cam) - Geoff Brabham 1975 - Ray Winter to replace ex. Mildren Yellow Submarine, and is now in hands of John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 376-020 - F3 1976 A78-020 - Ramsey 1978 AA71/1 - First FF Notes Paul Liston owned a Birrana 274 from 1978 to about 82 then im not sure what happened to it. It was raced by Allan Goldsmith in 1979, Colin Jack laste 79 to 80 featuring Wranglers sponsorship and later sidepods, then Mike Quinn raced it in 1981. Owen Jones owned a Birrana 274 Ford in 1978 then the car appears for sale, then Liston has a car. although no one mentions who the previous owners were. Tom Brickley appears in the mid 80s in a car called a Birrana 376, later raced by Don Hewitt, it features body work similar to the Liston car, ie full sidepods. Barry Johnson appears from about 1982 onwards in a Birrana 374 Datsun, assuming Vorst did fit a Datsun to his car, Johnsons car could either be the Booth car or the ex jim Evans car. Rick Purvis in 1982 in a Birrana in WA Then in same year another race, Joe Riccardo and Gary Martin in Birrana's, Martins being a 274, both in WA I'll keep trying Curt |
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26 Aug 2003, 07:49 (Ref:1557319) | #40 | ||
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OK Here we go again
In 1978 John Smith had a Birrana 273 for sale as a rolling chassis. It was an ex Bob Muir works car raced in the UK. Paul Liston purchased the car and ran Alan Goldsmith in it. So it appears Paul had 2 cars, i do vaguely remeber Alan Goldsmith wrecking a Birrana at Amaroo in 1979, so im wondering if this is the car and that maybe it was never rebuilt. Later in the Year Liston has Colin Jack in a Birrana 274 as i have mentioned earlier. The Owen Jones Birrana is not the 274 Ford that Colin Jack raced as i have since discovered that Jones still owned his car late in 1980, which was alos Ford powered. Curt |
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26 Aug 2003, 22:31 (Ref:1557320) | #41 | ||
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I have done lots of cross checking here and reading Rob Janneys Racing Car News reports etc. For many years he refers to the Zampatti/Creasy car as a 274, ran a 2 litre at some point, then back to 1.6 litre in early 76, then sold to Bob creasy later that year. Zampatti was thinking of retiring, then purchases another car, ex Bob Muir 1975 UK car. He races it for a few seasons in WA, then sells the car to Bill Downey, its generally referred to in race reports as a Birrana 273 or just Birrana. I have seen pictures of the car, and its still in the same bodywork as raced by Muir in the Uk.
So going by Brians info, that this car was written off, and my vague account of Goldsmith wrecking the other ex Muir UK car, it would seem both UK cars are no more. |
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21 Sep 2003, 04:55 (Ref:1557321) | #42 | ||
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Allen and everybody else.
This will fill a lot of gaps and I [THINK ONLY] just about as far we can go at this point. 001 F.Ford --John Goss 1971 , David Mingay 1972 to Warwick Marks to current Paul Hamilton. CH.NO. AA71-1 002 272 F2 Birrana Cars , Malclm Ramsay, Henk Woelders , Peter Brock , Zampatti, poss. the car now back with Zampatti with a 2.0 Waggott , bought back as a birthday present for Zampatti by his family. This cars history is really confusing as we believed some of the cars components were rebuilt into 008. The jury is still well and truly OUT on this at the moment. 003, F.Ford 1972 Steve Dewhurst , now with Ken Williams , ch.pl. says 501, and no I don't know why. 004 F.Ford , 1972 or 1973 can't ascertain . for Jon Davidson , now with John Holmes , Toowoomba , QLD. 005 F.Ford , 1972/3 Andrew Miedecke ,, now , unknown. 006 273 F2, Birrana Cars , then Paul Feltham , then Bob and Marj. Brown drv. Mal Ramsay. then ?? prob. U.K. Dean Hosking / spare , now ???? 007 273 , 1973 Birrana Cars -Tony Stewart 1974 Don Uerbergang- then Peter Warren now John Holmes. 008 273 Peter Brock sold March 1974 to Bernie Zampatti and fitted at some stage with a 2.0 Waggott, refitted with 1.6 twin cam and sold to Bob Creasy August 1976 and sometimes called a 274 due to updated panels . In June 1977 fitted with a Cosworth BDD , sold Jan. 1982 to E.A.J. Purvis of W.A. ,sold March 1984 to A.McIntyre/ R.Harmon . By 1991 with Bruce Mactier of Victoria. U nknown since and may be the car sold to Zampatti's family. 009-273 Bob and Marj Brown Busselman /Muir to U.K. 1975 maybe Minos later . ???? 010-273 Birrana Cars 1973 , 1974 Graham Crawford , also Leo G. etc.etc. 011 , Blanden , 8-1-74 --3-3-75, Ian Cook 3-3-75-15-7-75, then to Richard Steigler 15-7-75 till 4-12-75, then to David Booth 4-12-75 till 20-5-80 , then to Terry Harris 20-5-80 till 1-2-96 , then to Phil Shaw , retained untill about 3 months ago , now with Ross Hodgson of Sydney. 012 274 , but believed late delivery, used by Wolfy [his nickname] I saw car circa 1980 , being refurbished by Mick Kouros and fitted with MK.9 instead of FT200, and a suspicion by myself it was ex. Paul Liston's works where it may have been cannibalised for components for the Liston F2 car,car has never re-appeared and is still I believe with the same owner . I know who and where but will respect his privacy. 013 , is also owned by Ross Hodgson. 014 ??? don't know present status. 015 , is now with , and has been for about 10 years , Noel and Andrew Robson of Melb. Yes Allen the same Robsons with the Lola F5000. 017. for many years with Kerry Luckins of Melbourne 018 , with John Holmes Qld. Speedway car S74 with John Holmes . 020 376 , now with Gary Hancock of Gosford N.S.W. , Don Hewitt owned at one stage , Gemini eng. also others . 020 A78 F/Atlantic, Mal Ramsay , now with John Holmes. I have prob. left something out , or given you more questions to ask, I am not familiar with any of the 1600cc F2 pushrod happenings , as I was well into historics at this stage. Bryan. |
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9 Nov 2003, 22:05 (Ref:1557323) | #43 | ||
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This thread was overdue for a summary. I've attempted to combine all the information provided by Bryan, Curt and David into a cohesive whole. We seem to have made incredible progress on these cars!
AA71-1 (F.Ford) - John Goss 1971 - David Mingay 1972 - Warwick Marks - Paul Hamilton and retained 2003. 272-002 (F2) - Birrana Cars (drivers Malcolm Ramsay and Henk Woelders) - Peter Brock - Bernie Zampatti ... poss. the car now back with Zampatti with a 2.0 Waggott, bought back as a birthday present for Zampatti by his family. This car's history is really confusing as we believed some of the cars components were rebuilt into 008. The jury is still well and truly OUT on this at the moment. 003 [ch plate says '501'] (F.Ford) - Steve Dewhurst 1972 ... Ken Williams 2003. 004 (F.Ford) - Unknown 1972 - Unknown 1973 ... for Jon Davidson ... John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 2003. 005 (F.Ford) - Andrew Miedecke 1972/3 .. now unknown. 272-006 (F2) - Birrana Cars 1972 - Paul Feltham - Bob and Marj. Brown (drv. Mal Ramsay) 1974 then probably to UK (drv. Dean Hosking / spare) 1975 ... now unknown but see "unknown car" notes below. 273-007 - Leo Geoghegan 1973 (‘works’ entry in Singapore 1973) - Tony Stewart [when?] - Don Uerbergang 1974 - Peter Warren 1975-1976 ... John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 2003. 273-008 - Peter Brock 1973 - Bernie Zampatti March 1974 (fitted at some stage with 2-litre Waggott; then with 1.6 twin-cam again) - Bob Creasy August 1976 (fitted with a Cosworth BDD in June 1977) - EAJ Purvis (WA) Jan 1982 - A McIntyre/R Harmon March 1984 ... Bruce Mactier (Victoria) by 1991 ... unknown since and may be the car sold to Zampatti's family. 273-009 - Bob and Marj Brown 1973 (drivers Buesselmann 1973/74 and later Bob Muir 1974); UK 1975; tub may have been used for Minos F2 BUT Zampatti buys ex-Muir UK car c1977, races it for a few seasons in WA, then sells the car to Bill Downey. At the 1979 Aus GP, Downey enters a Birrana 273 but races a Minos. Same car? Later written off? See "unknown car" notes below. 273-010 - Malcolm Ramsay 1973 ('works' car) and Geoghegan at Macau - Graeme Crawford 1974-1978 - Barry Ward 1979 ... Chas Talbot 1981 ... 374-011 - John Blanden Jan 1974 (driver Dean Hosking) F3 1974 - Ian Cook March 1975 (brought for spare engine) - Richard Steigler July 1975 - David Booth December 1975 - Terry Harris May 1980 - Phil Shaw Feb 1996 - Ross Hodgson (Sydney) June 2003. 274-012 - 'Wolfie' Prejawa 1974-1978 - maybe the Paul Liston car below ... 374-013 - Jim Evans F3 1974 (raced with Corolla power then a Ford Crossflow). Was badly bent at Amaroo Park, and the tub was replaced, no chassis number. Then had another accident at Oran Park and was sold in this condition to Richard Steigler who then sold it to Paul McCurdy in 1975 who fitted a Honda engine to it. Then to Joe Vorst in 1979 who was reportedly fitting a Datsun engine to it. Now with Ross Hodgson 2003. 374-014 - Lew Wade 1974 (for Van Heusen series as F3 with a 1300cc Brian Sampson Toyota Corolla) ... later Paul King for F3 ... later Jack Klaver in AF2 between 1981 and 1985 and highly modified by 1985 ... 274-015 - Leo Geoghegan 1974 (works car) - Alfredo Costanzo 1975 - Greame Smith mid 1976 to 1982 - Neil Richardson late 1982 who still had the car in 1986 ... Noel and Andrew Robson (Melbourne) early 1990s. Retained 2003. 274-016 - Chas Talbot 1974 ... Graham Baker; believed destroyed in Baker’s 1977 Wigram crash. 274-017 - Bruce Allison (Hobby and Toyland) 1974 - Len Goodwin mid-1975 ... Kerry Luckins (Melbourne) 2003. 274-018 - Neil Rear 1974 (1600cc twin cam) - Geoff Brabham 1975 - Ray Winter (to replace ex. Mildren Yellow Submarine) ... John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 2003. S74 'Speedway car' ... John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 2003. 376-020 - F3 1976 ... Don Hewitt owned at one stage , Gemini eng. also others ... Gary Hancock (Gosford, NSW) 2003. A78-020 - Malcolm Ramsey 1978 ... John Holmes (Toowoomba, Qld) 2003. Unknown cars spotted by Curt Bill Stoddart purchased a brand new Birrana 374 from the works in mid 1976, and installed a Corolla engine into it. Could this be the 376????? Paul Liston owned a Birrana 274 from 1978 to about 82 then im not sure what happened to it. It was raced by Allan Goldsmith in 1979, Colin Jack laste 79 to 80 featuring Wranglers sponsorship and later sidepods, then Mike Quinn raced it in 1981. Owen Jones owned a Birrana 274 Ford in 1978 then the car appears for sale, then Liston has a car. although no one mentions who the previous owners were. The Owen Jones Birrana is not the 274 Ford that Colin Jack raced as i have since discovered that Jones still owned his car late in 1980, which was also Ford powered. In 1978 John Smith had a Birrana 273 for sale as a rolling chassis. It was an ex Bob Muir works car raced in the UK. Paul Liston purchased the car and ran Alan Goldsmith in it. So it appears Paul had 2 cars, i do vaguely remeber Alan Goldsmith wrecking a Birrana at Amaroo in 1979, so I'm wondering if this is the car and that maybe it was never rebuilt. Later in the Year Liston has Colin Jack in a Birrana 274 as I have mentioned earlier. Tom Brickley appears in the mid 80s in a car called a Birrana 376, later raced by Don Hewitt, it features body work similar to the Liston car, ie full sidepods. Barry Johnson appears from about 1982 onwards in a Birrana 374 Datsun, assuming Vorst did fit a Datsun to his car, Johnsons car could either be the Booth car or the ex jim Evans car. Rick Purvis in 1982 in a Birrana in WA. Then in same year another race, Joe Riccardo and Gary Martin in Birrana's, Martins being a 274, both in WA. Still just a few pieces not plugged into the jigsaw. Allen Last edited by John Turner; 22 Mar 2006 at 08:34. Reason: Chassis Archive edit! |
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21 Apr 2006, 04:18 (Ref:1590449) | #44 | ||
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I spoke to Paul Liston the other day , his car was the Colin Jack car which they used as a parts donor for his own Liston/Fisher F2 car , later as advised this car was partially rebuilt and still remains with that owner, Barry Duckworth.
The Liston F2 car hasn't been sighted since the late 1970's early 1980's. Peter Nightingale advises he has 274-009 , and has had for a long time , Peter used to work at Birrana Cars and also did a lot of engine work , primarily Ford Twin-cam and Cosworth Bdds , he was at one time at Repco racing engines as well. Bryan. |
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21 Apr 2006, 04:28 (Ref:1590451) | #45 | ||
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Sorry , I should have added that makes it 274-012.
Bryan. |
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24 Apr 2006, 10:47 (Ref:1593647) | #46 | ||
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The Liston/Fisher built car currently resides in Sydney, the owner hopes to run it in AF2 in the near future,well maybe.
The '376' of Bill Stoddarts was the Brickley/Hewitt Gemini powered car |
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26 Dec 2006, 23:01 (Ref:1799595) | #47 | ||
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the ex Brock 272
I see the 272 that Brock sold to Zampatti is being rebuilt in WA - see WA Racing Museum www.warm.org.au & follow the links to the associates car.
All hail the Caversham era (irrelevant to the Birrana, see the ZX5). |
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16 Jan 2007, 13:29 (Ref:1816518) | #48 | |||
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Quote:
I also purchased the 273-010 and the damaged 016 Car (Baker) from Chas Talbot. The 016 was returned to Australia to recoup "NZ Duty". The 010 Crawford car later went to Steve Lunn. The 016, in component form, (damaged in NZ) was sold to Russell Spokes. Good to catch up on the Birrana's, wish I still had one? Wish I had built the Renault R5 Turbo too! How is James McGaughey? |
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18 Jan 2007, 11:01 (Ref:1818329) | #49 | |
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I thought the brock 272 was written off ,what parts of it survived to be now under restoration in WA?
Would you not at least need the original chassis to constitute a genuine vehical. |
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18 Jan 2007, 14:51 (Ref:1818516) | #50 | ||
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Depends what you call genuine. You dont need an original chassis for an HTP and you don't need one for a Heritage Certificate either.
However, a car that had been 'apart' for a time would not get a HC. Allen |
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