Do you Think TGF would have been winning if he drove for BAR?

[grumpy1]

You think!!!! It was carried by a couple of F1 sites when it happened.

The Grumpy1
P.S.Considering Mark Webber also drove the car at the time and he also speeks of it you still think its BS

[Kicking-back]

It is BS.

That happened at Fiorano - which has not hosted a Grand Prix.

It's also a classic example of exaggeration.

Yes, he was quick, but he wasn't anywhere near as quick as you try to suggest.

[Adam43]

He was quick, but the story is exagerated shall we say, especially as k-b suggests it wasn't at a GP track!

Besides if MS can put a 2 seater 11/12th then Rubens who is only half a second slower than Michael would still be quite a few places off the back of the grid. RB wasn't fantastically better than Verstappen at Stewart. So Verstappen probably wouldn't have been at the back either. When inifite leap of faith probably shows that the 2 seater Minardi is better than the single seater Minardi!

[hgmonaro]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
...probably shows that the 2 seater Minardi is better than the single seater Minardi!

Funny you should day that, cause looking how the race Minardi goes round corners, the 2 seater with it's longer wheelbase (assumuing so.. no idea of the specs) could well be a better thing!

[Kirk]

Originally posted by gfm
... and would Button then win the World Championship if he had Schumacher's Ferrari?

Barring team orders I think it would be quite a battle. RB by a nose, but as time goes on that could change if Button keeps progressing.

[Gt_R]

I won't predict anything, but one thing's quite for sure is that given any cars on the grid, MS would have little difficulty matching the team's respective drivers, if not far better. And given some time, MS would have produced better results than any other drivers on the grid..he has just that bit extra to bring to any team...and the "worse" the team, the greater the gap.

There's absolutely no denying the guy's abilities.

And yes, the Minardi 2 seater was painted red and MS put in some pretty quick lap times around Fiorano, giving among others, his wife and manager WW, a ride of their lives. Paul was impressed with the pace managed.

[grumpy1]

My appoligies but as I was told it was GP track where this took place.
Raven I will accept your appoligie.
As I said he could drive a go cart and be on the podium.

The Grumpy1

[Led ZeppF1]

I believe in this year's BAR, Schumy would have won a title.

[neilap]

I believe it would depend on who is driving the 2nd Ferrari. If JB or anyone in his league like Alonzo were driving then I doube MS would have a win. A driver can only go as fast as the car will let him. Right now the BAR is still way off Ferrari's pace.

[Rick]

don't believe everything you are told Grumpy - bit like Webber at Le Mans!

[Gt_R]

I think a title is abit far off, especially if it's MS first year... but i won't bet against a WDC in the short term, and a few wins this year at least.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think if he'd've joined them after 2003, he'd have every chance of winning 3-4 races this year, although it depends on who took over the Ferrari.

If he joined them mid-season, I think he could take a win later in the year, and probably do enough to protect his championship lead, espcailly if Renautl adn Williams remain inconsistant, or if Kimi starts winning raaces to deny the other title candidates key points.

If he'd've been the lead man when the team started up in 1999, they'd've reached the top much quicker, although he could've done little with the 1999 car itself. The otehr factor is that he's largely responsible for the remainder of the Ferrari team being made up of the gifted committed organised people it is blessed with.

[pole2pole]

Oh come on you lot put michael in a bar and he would win races.....come on wise up. Look the guy is good but he is not that good like for god sake take him away from ferrari and the fantastic people around him and he would be like a fish out of water. I dont think michael would have won any races and i dont think he would have got any poles

[N I Tram]

Considering that he's almost certainly better than Button, and Button has beaten Rubens several times already this season in both qualifying and races, I think he could jump in and win races this year. He won 3 in the recalcitrant 1996 Ferrari, in Williams' largely dominant season, when he didn't have the same guys around him, so why not?

[Gt_R]

NI, some choose not to see anything positive outta MS

But yeah, he'd won 3 races in his first year at Ferrari without Brawn/Bryne, in a dog of a car with little pace and bad reliability, so why couldn't he do the same in much favourable conditions now at BAR? I think he can...but of course many thought he can't...

[Peter Mallett]

Gt_R. Don't lay it on too thickly. Martin makes a good point about being better than Button. So I tend to agree. But the point may also be that Button is showing more signs of being the "challenger" than the established runners.

Hmm. Food for thought there.

[pole2pole]

Originally posted by N I Tram
Considering that he's almost certainly better than Button, and Button has beaten Rubens several times already this season in both qualifying and races, I think he could jump in and win races this year. He won 3 in the recalcitrant 1996 Ferrari, in Williams' largely dominant season, when he didn't have the same guys around him, so why not?

How do we know if he is better than button? I think that can only be answered if both of them where in the same team and car and no team orders but i cant see that ever going down. How many of you out there would like to see a buttom,kimi or even jv in the other ferrari and may the best man win would that not make the whole thing more interesting. I think button has done an amazing job this season when you think about it he has been with bar for a season and a bit and he is already knocking on the back door of ferrari who are by far the best out there

[shiny side up!]

Now, I am not particularly a Ferrari or TGF fan, but I can appreciate the relative merits of both.

Originally posted by pole2pole
How do we know if he is better than button? ... knocking on the back door of ferrari who are by far the best out there

If you really think that Button may be as good as TGF, seems a bit 2-faced to then go on and say that the Ferrari is by far better than the BAR. Following your logic re: drivers, it would take a test with one driver piloting both the Ferrari and the BAR back-to-back to determine which is better, similar to requiring both drivers to be in exactly the same car to see which is the best. Both rather poor arguments, IMHO.

Few would claim the BAR is as good as the Ferrari, and few would claim that Button is as good as TGF. There are those few in each camp, though.

[pole2pole]

But it still does'nt anwser the question. Is Michael quicker than button cause he is in a better car or is button close to ferrari cause he is quicker. Was Mika quicker than Michael or was the mclaren a better car

[shiny side up!]

The answer (as of right now, I suppose things can change):

On any given day, one would expect Michael to outperform Button.

On any given day, one would expect Ferrari to outperform BAR.

I think more than 90% (probably 95-98%???) of the F1 fan base would agree to both those statements. I suppose that in itself doesn't guarantee that it is fact, but I would tend to think such an overwhelming majority would win any argument...

[Frank_White]

The experts of F-1 including the Team principals routinely state that TGF is the among the greatest or the greatest driver ever. Yet people in this forum can still say with a straight face that Button might be faster than him.

TGF has far outshone every teammate he has ever had, button could'nt even beat sato the last time out. TGF and senna stood out immediately upon entering F-1 far outshinning their respective team-mates. Its almost criminal to compare TGF's talent with that of Button.

i can say this very confidently: if TGF called up Dave Richards and stated that he wanted to race for BAR in buttons seat in two weeks time, you can bet good money that button would find himself without a drive.

[pole2pole]

Ok point taken. You must understand that all i/we want to see is racing and the only driver who can really push Michael is his team mate and we all know that is just not going to happen........sorry to get off the main subject of the thread

[Gt_R]

MS had beaten good drivers in BETTER cars, so honestly, it won't be harder to beat good drivers in mere equal cars...

Frankwhite, i agree with you...it sometimes amazes me how people could insist MS is inferior to other drivers...sure they'd have their dream come true when MS turns 60 and has to race a 25 year old Robins Johnson (random name of future F1 driver).

[RWC]

micheal would absolutally be winning in the BAR.Mostly because he then wouldn't be in ferrari...they're biggest competition

[Andrew2001]

What a dumb ass question which is just asking for trouble lol.
Depends who was in the Ferrari for sure. But for example, I believe if Barrichello and say Button were in the Ferrari, and TGF and Raikkonen in the BARs, I think you'd see both the BARs within tenths of the Ferraris on the g rid and perhaps the odd win or so for both MS and Raikkonen.