Touring Car Masters Imploding?

[Backagain]

Originally Posted by Kingair

Where does one join up for this hedonistic lifestyle?

It's very easy, according to 2 Little Touring Car Star, all you have to do is say that you enjoy watching any category involving V8's.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

No, it isn't. My support for 2 litre engines is because they're the optimal and most appropriate engine capacity. It solves almost all issues regarding Australian motorsport.

What measures did you use to reach your conclusion that 2 litre engines are optimal and the most appropriate engine capacity?

[Average Punter]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Certainly how I WISH my whole life had been!

Who was the wild English soccer player who said "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered"??

[Casper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

No, it isn't. My support for 2 litre engines is because they're the optimal and most appropriate engine capacity. It solves almost all issues regarding Australian motorsport.

Pretty much any criticism of 2 litre cars is a hedonistic one. Here, v8central, speedcafe, any forum or media outlet.

It's taken me a while to nut it out, but it's pretty much it. And tbh, it doesn't surprise me that Mixer cracked it. I would too if someone summed up my motor racing fandom so cheaply.

adjective
engaged in the pursuit of pleasure; sensually self-indulgent.
"a hedonistic existence of booze, drugs, and parties"

Do you want to pick another adjective? abd re-write the sentence so it actually means something?

[Mixer]

So we are all v8 fans because we like the sound of them?

I mean they do sound better than 4cyl Dysons running around.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

So we are all v8 fans because we like the sound of them?

I mean they do sound better than 4cyl Dysons running around.

Turbocharged V8s sound nearly as bad as turbocharged 4-cylinders anyway -- the exhaust note of the various McLaren cars and Ferrari turbos are routinely panned.

Take these V8 DTM cars for example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTTHuKp1hMw If you weren't told it was a V8, you might think it's a 4-popper. They have a lovely inline-four like flatplane rasp to them, especially since there is no crossover in the exhaust joining the banks.

Conversely, take this Yamaha R1 inline-four with a crossplane crankshaft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMMRxHPYc2o It could easily masquerade as a V4 or American crossplane V8 by ears alone.

Therefore your point is fundamentally erroneous IMO. Just as there is very little in tone between an inline-six and V12, between a inline-five and a V10, there is also very little difference in tone between an inline-four and V8 of the equivalent crankshaft configuration.

If you like the sound of a Ferrari 308 V8, why wouldn't you also like the sound of an Alfa Romeo GTV 4-cylinder? They really do not sound all that different!

Alfa Romeo 4-popper @ Targa Tasmania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Q9zVs4YSg
Ferrari 8-popper @ Targa Tasmania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-sjhVTV3AY

Notice how similar they sound, as you would expect given how similar V8 and four-cylinder engines are. They both have their carbs barking away too! Given this, I don't understand how one could like the sound of a NA V8 but not the sound of a NA inline-four -- it would be as silly as saying as you love the sound of a V12 but think inline-sixes sound like garbage.

Conversely, turbocharged four-cylinders do tend to sound pretty bad (especially low-revving TCR), but the twin-turbocharged McLaren and Ferrari V8 GT3 cars also sound bad too... A turbocharged low-revving engine doesn't magically sound great just because it's a V8.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Who was the wild English soccer player who said "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered"??

George Best.(He was not English but Northern Irish ) He died in his 50's after multiple organ failure. He had previously had a liver transplant.

His last published comment was a warning about the dangers of alcohol with the message: "Don't die like me".

Other famous quotes of his :

I used to go missing a lot... Miss Canada, Miss United Kingdom, Miss World.....

I've stopped drinking, but only while I'm asleep.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Turbocharged V8s sound nearly as bad as turbocharged 4-cylinders anyway -- the exhaust note of the various McLaren cars and Ferrari turbos are routinely panned.

Mixer didn't reference turbocharged V8s. Supercars do not use turbocharged V8s, nor do S5000 or old school F5000.

Think he was referring to the sound of an NA V8 - turbocharged V8s not under discussion at all - sorry.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Mixer didn't reference turbocharged V8s. Supercars do not use turbocharged V8s, nor do S5000 or old school F5000.

Think he was referring to the sound of an NA V8 - turbocharged V8s not under discussion at all - sorry.

Sorry if I was unclear. I soon returned to the topic of naturally aspirated V8s. DTM V8s are naturally aspirated, likewise the Ferrari 308.

Like I said the 180-degree crank throw Ferrari 308 V8 and Alfa Romeo GTV twin-cam sound far more similar than they do different. Just as the Yamaha R1 4-cylinder with the 90-degree crank throws sounds very similar to a S5000, at least in the lower half of the Yamaha's rev-range.

Originally Posted by Mixer

So we are all v8 fans because we like the sound of them?

I mean they do sound better than 4cyl Dysons running around.

So it's illogical to like the sound of V8s but dislike inline-fours, just as it's illogical to like the sound of V12s but dislike the sound of inline-sixes. On that topic, the TCM is definitely worse off for the lack of the wailing inline-six Chrysler -- such a shame.

[dirtymacca]

What has all this dribble about DTM, 2 litres and other irrelevent crap got to do with the topic.... Touring Car Masters Imploding?
Come on children, back on the subject!

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by chavez

What measures did you use to reach your conclusion that 2 litre engines are optimal and the most appropriate engine capacity?

2 litre engines are an evolution of 5 litre.

Originally Posted by Casper

adjective
engaged in the pursuit of pleasure; sensually self-indulgent.
"a hedonistic existence of booze, drugs, and parties"

Do you want to pick another adjective? abd re-write the sentence so it actually means something?

No, my opinion is apt.

You can take the time to figure out yourself why.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by dirtymacca

What has all this dribble about DTM, 2 litres and other irrelevent crap got to do with the topic.... Touring Car Masters Imploding?

It's relevant in the sense that competitors with Alfa Romeo GTAs, Ford Escort BDAs and 2.0L Porsche 911s were (arguably) not given the opportunity to compete for victory. If the larger capacity pushrod vehicles were restricted to period-correct engines with around 350-400hp, the 2.0L competitors might still be enthusiastic about the Touring Car Masters class, while the big engine runners could be happy in the knowledge that could drop in a $10,000 415hp crate motor and be competitive... Plus the category would have a much better variety of sights and sounds!





It may have helped avoid the category becoming (what some may argue to be) a pastiche filled with LS-powered Torana sports sedans with dodgy-looking fibreglass over fenders.

If Mr. Showers must source a priceless period-correct Cosworth engine for his Escort, why can Torana runners slap a LS in their rig!?

[Mixer]

That GTA is hot as ****. But it was a class runner in its day so it shouldn't expect to be an outright contender now.

But the front running cars have become ridiculous and they need to be reeled in, but without them there is not much of a show. So TCM has built themselves a house of cards.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

It's relevant in the sense that competitors with Alfa Romeo GTAs, Ford Escort BDAs and 2.0L Porsche 911s were (arguably) not given the opportunity to compete for victory.

So same as when they all ran against each other back in the day with the lower power outputs back then from the V8s? Well lower power outputs back then from all of them most likely but the cars you mention, whilst having the odd special moment, were not outright competitors.

Originally Posted by Mixer

That GTA is hot as ****. But it was a class runner in its day so it shouldn't expect to be an outright contender now.

But the front running cars have become ridiculous and they need to be reeled in, but without them there is not much of a show. So TCM has built themselves a house of cards.

Agree - that GTA is simply magnificent (to look at) and also agree that the TCM crew have let the costs run away and haven't done enough to stay in front of that - hopefully that happens soon or it really is on shaky ground.

[bathurst77]

That purple escort did bad things to my underpants

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Mixer

That GTA is hot as ****. But it was a class runner in its day so it shouldn't expect to be an outright contender now.

But the front running cars have become ridiculous and they need to be reeled in, but without them there is not much of a show. So TCM has built themselves a house of cards.

Has there been a change of ownership of the category?

Someone folded the cards & cashed in ?

[chavez]

Latest news here.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/06/26...h-competitors/

[coln72]

Originally Posted by Tourer

So same as when they all ran against each other back in the day with the lower power outputs back then from the V8s? Well lower power outputs back then from all of them most likely but the cars you mention, whilst having the odd special moment, were not outright competitors.

Agree - that GTA is simply magnificent (to look at) and also agree that the TCM crew have let the costs run away and haven't done enough to stay in front of that - hopefully that happens soon or it really is on shaky ground.

Didnt a twin cam escort come 2nd in the ATCC in the 70's???

[chavez]

Originally Posted by coln72

Didnt a twin cam escort come 2nd in the ATCC in the 70's???

Yes, but not on outright speed, but a points system that was favourably to the smaller cars.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by coln72

Didnt a twin cam escort come 2nd in the ATCC in the 70's???

Originally Posted by chavez

Yes, but not on outright speed, but a points system that was favourably to the smaller cars.

Thanks Chavez, beat me to it.

Similar things have happened in other class-racing series. Chris Hodgetts famously won the BTCC in a Corolla (I think it was) against minimal opposition in his class, whilst the outright contenders took points from each other scrapping all the way through.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thanks Chavez, beat me to it.

Similar things have happened in other class-racing series. Chris Hodgetts famously won the BTCC in a Corolla (I think it was) against minimal opposition in his class, whilst the outright contenders took points from each other scrapping all the way through.

Correct on Hodgetts, John Cleland did the same, as did Andy Rouse in one of this titles years earlier…. It was rare that an outright car won the BSCC/BTCC.

At least in the ATCC there were also some points awarded for outright placings in addition to the class points.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by one five five

Correct on Hodgetts, John Cleland did the same, as did Andy Rouse in one of this titles years earlier…. It was rare that an outright car won the BSCC/BTCC.

At least in the ATCC there were also some points awarded for outright placings in addition to the class points.

Yes more often the big class was the hardest fought and had more entrants. Rouse in '84 with the Rover is the only one I can think of from the top class?
In fact apart from Win Percy's Mazda RX7 double and Rouse inheriting it in '83 in the 2500cc class, most of the titles came from the 1300 & 1600 c tiddlers like Unett's Avenger, Longman's Mini, Hodgetts' Corolla years.