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2 May 2010, 00:52 (Ref:2682937) | #26 | ||
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Street circuits generally don't have the run off area, or the change in surface to cause the car to roll, and for it to get enough distance to get the vertical attitude AND have the horizontal speed. The If a car rolls on a street circuit, then generally they'll have hit a hard, movable wall with a 90 degree face on it, which absorbs a huge amount of the energy, really minimising the forces that then continue to allow the car to keep rolling. |
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2 May 2010, 01:57 (Ref:2682954) | #27 | ||
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
2 May 2010, 02:16 (Ref:2682962) | #28 | |
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I know this is pedantic, but it is physically impossible for the car to accelerate once it is off it's driving wheels. The amount of deceleration may be less sliding along on the roof, but unless it was on a significant downslope or there is some accelerative force (like the driving wheels), it cannot accelerate.
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2 May 2010, 03:14 (Ref:2682968) | #29 | ||
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There are a couple of things to look at, the fencing is too low at QR - and the same at the drag racing facility too.
Yeah, it was a freak accident, but circuit owners have to minimise the risk to spectators at all costs. The accident does give TC and CAMS fodder to not go back there. |
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2 May 2010, 03:19 (Ref:2682970) | #30 | ||
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V8Supercars - Race cars using road car headlights, for decades ;) 'You holden VT drivers better look out, because the Ford AU is coming to get you' Glenn Seton - 1999 (The original egg on face disclaimer) :roflmao: |
2 May 2010, 03:22 (Ref:2682971) | #31 | ||
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In other news, sorry to hear about the death of another rider at Broadford this morning.... |
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2 May 2010, 03:45 (Ref:2682974) | #32 | ||
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Everyone has been talking about the track but no one about the Mini's themselves. Has not anyone else noticed how easily these cars are spun around when tapped from the rear?
It seems to me they they become very very unstable when even slightly nudged. It may be the high centre of gravity combined with each of the 4 wheels in the furthest corners and then the FWD. There has been some big big accidents like yesterday with a tap from behind. eg Townsville. |
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2 May 2010, 04:13 (Ref:2682978) | #33 | |
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was impressed by the speed of the red flag.
is it an automatic rule that car in the crowd equals red flag |
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2 May 2010, 05:48 (Ref:2682993) | #34 | ||
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Yesterday it was Kain Magro whose mini barrel rolled and flipped itself into the crowd which saw a 59yr old, a 60yr old and the driver of the mini taken to hospital all with minor lacerations. Today a female mini race driver had a severe crash into a tyre barrier and was taken to hospital with some injuries.
Surely VESA and CAMS now have enough evidence NOT to return to this circuit, the CEO Mr John Tetley believes that his circuit is safe and he intends on resurfacing the track etc at the later end of the year. Will Mr John Tetley stick to his word or give VESA the run around just like the Barbagallo WASCC did. |
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2 May 2010, 06:58 (Ref:2683011) | #35 | |||
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It's JT we're talking about - he's already been playing that tune for a few years now. The simple fact though is, V8's seem to need QR more than QR needs the V8's. (Purely because its a tesing circuit). I personally asked JT about resurfacing & frankly, QR is booked out almost every weekend of the year without the need for desperate resurfacing, so why would he? Whilst I agree with him in a business sense, it's condition (along with its boring layout) has certainly put me off from wanting to turn a wheel there - haven't done so for over 12 months. When the track has a good surface, at least you can race wheel to wheel without bouncing all over the place! Morgan Pk should be milking this! BTW, is there any in car footage from either car? Would be VERY curious to see who squeezed who... |
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2 May 2010, 07:43 (Ref:2683035) | #36 | |
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Even Ipswich City Council were on the news compaining about it tonight, and it was the Ipswich City Council that named it...
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2 May 2010, 08:25 (Ref:2683047) | #37 | ||
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the luckiest part of the whole exercise - and I was half way down the back straight wandering around the track towards it! - was the lousy crowd that was there. A few years ago and the car would have landed on a dozen spectators rather than a basically empty patch of grass. Might have even made the grandstand they use to put down there! (from memory).
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2 May 2010, 08:25 (Ref:2683049) | #38 | ||
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2 May 2010, 08:56 (Ref:2683057) | #39 | ||
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Would a paved run-off, rather than a sandtrap, be an answer here, as opposed to solely blaming the height of the fencing?
I don't recall much track changes at Suttons Corner at Oran Park back in the mid-90s when the trucks of Ron Salter & Rodney Crick almost ended up in the spectator area. |
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2 May 2010, 08:57 (Ref:2683058) | #40 | ||
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Could it be a problem with the mini's? We have seen two serious accidents in two days. Over the years we have also seen Justin Hemes roll one at Oran Park (2008?) Then we saw Chris Alajajian roll his at Sandown (2009?).
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2 May 2010, 09:19 (Ref:2683067) | #41 | ||
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For the car to gain speed in this case, there would need to be a force applied in the direction of travel that was greater than the kinetic friction (acting against the direction of travel). There is no force in the direction of travel, so the car cannot physically gain speed, only lose it (albeit at a reduced rate). |
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2 May 2010, 09:38 (Ref:2683080) | #42 | |||
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The track has a license (2 in fact) after being inspected and approved for racing so there is no issue there with the circuit safety. The same type of fencing as has been already stated can be found all around the country. This 'freak' & unforseeable accident is something that Queensland Raceway & Australian motorsport (CAMS & AASA included) can learn from. So lets not be hasty and make such suggestions that V8SA should not return. Lets hope that they do. |
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2 May 2010, 09:42 (Ref:2683081) | #43 | |||
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Short of someone or something pushing it faster the rate of decelaration might vary but it certainly wont increase it's kilometre per hour speed just by sliding on grass,it might just slow down a bit slower. |
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2 May 2010, 10:37 (Ref:2683105) | #44 | |||
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2 May 2010, 10:41 (Ref:2683109) | #45 | |
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Im thinking we should discuss the topic instead of a physics lesson. any reasonable points made or discussed are totally lost in the off-topic conversation
thank goodness for catch fences |
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2 May 2010, 10:51 (Ref:2683116) | #46 | ||
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Simple solution, ban the mini's...
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2 May 2010, 11:47 (Ref:2683140) | #47 | ||
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Datto, not quite the solution, but lets have a closer look at who is driving them;
Hence the point I made earlier about the root cause, but clearly the wannabe astro-physicists on this forum would rather debate the differences in the co-efficient of friction of grass, rubber, metal, and asphalt |
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Bring on the Endurance season, and some big name DNF's... (I'd love to see the V8 Chumpionship decided @ Winton, thus making the El Grande Finale the flop it deserves to be...) |
2 May 2010, 13:12 (Ref:2683187) | #48 | ||||||
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And, although it has now gone, why wasn't Amaroo Park immediately banned when an open wheeler (F/Brabham??) went into the crowd in the same way the Mini did? Quote:
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2 May 2010, 13:49 (Ref:2683198) | #49 | |||
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Stephen, i will respond to this point, as it was mine. (BTW, some of your othere were very good) Doing some quick research on Natsoft (Racetime seems to stop at 2007.....) Mini's lap, (at most tracks) slightly slower than FFord, quite close to than V8 Utes, and around the same time as Biante Touring Car Masters cars. The intent of my original post was that Mini's tended to attract less experienced racers (the Uber star car comes to mind) who quite possibly are quick drivers. Please note, there is a massive difference between a quick driver, and an experienced racer. BTW I'm generally talking about the bottom 50 % of the field here. In saying all that, i'd suggest that a number of these "buy a drive" tourists, lack race craft, and when they are "on show" as a support to The Greatest Show on Earth, maybe, just maybe, they try too hard ? How many of these tourists, have gained experience & race craft in club & state level events? Mini's are not really a class that people graduate to, they bring along dollars, and buy a drive, and again, i say that with the greatest of respect to any past or previous Mini competitor, but that is simply my opinion. Oh, and as to looking at qualification of drivers in general, well there are a lot of replies over in the yellow flag thread that pertain to a lack of driving ability (to follow rules), and dont even get me started on CAMS licences these days. (did someone mention Weet-bix boxes) I reckon you & I might have even been at a number good old fashioned driver evaluation's together at Calder more than 15 years ago. (back when people who were not suitable were actually refused a GC licence) |
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Bring on the Endurance season, and some big name DNF's... (I'd love to see the V8 Chumpionship decided @ Winton, thus making the El Grande Finale the flop it deserves to be...) |
2 May 2010, 21:44 (Ref:2683455) | #50 | ||
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As to the other comments - Mini's are not the only category 'buy a drive' happens. Dare I suggest Ute's as well? |
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