[WEC] The Unified Power Rankings (GTP / Hypercar)

[TF110]

Wec rankings after 2 rds;

1. Toyota
2. Ferrari
3. Porsche/Cadillac
5. Peugeot
6. Glickenhaus
7. Vanwall

I dont think theres much between the Porsche and the Caddy. I think thats going to be a closer battle at Spa with another Cadillac racing. I also think Vanwall will make strides and be better than Glickenhaus. Hopefully Jim keeps going and does more work on the car.

[PhilipR]

Let's give it time! I remember the Toyota looking a handful and difficult in 2021 and not having competition is what saved them. Even last year they had issues with the hybrid motor forcing them to stop on track - but they had time to further develop and now have a well sorted car that they fully understand

I am glad this BOP is used to allow cars to reach their ultimate performance potential rather than artificially bunching the field together - it is still onto the teams to deliver if they want to win

Ranking:
Toyota
Ferrari/Acura
Cadillac(still think without the tire issues they would have challenged porsche at the end)
Porsche(slow in Long Beach but strategy and the usual WTR brain fart saved them)
BMW/Peugeot
Glickenhaus
Oreca 07
Corvette c8-r/ Porsche 911 gt3 rsr/ Ferrari 488
Steel Brakes
Vanwall

[GT3_Fan]

I am going to rank in a new way.. The best looking cars. The cars along with the liveries we have seen are all factors. That is one thing that dings Toyota even though I like the car. The livery of Toyota Gazoo racing is so bland.

1. Cadillac (looks like the Corvette DP styling. All 3 colors are great too)
2. Ferrari
3. Peugeot (looks most like a GT car)
4. Toyota (I have grown into it after not liking it at first, livery still stinks)
5. Vanwall
6. bmw
7. glickenhaus
8. Porsche (too LMPish looking and generic. Penske livery sucks)
9. Acura (hate it, looks like a generic lmp car more than any other. The NSX Gt3 car looks good. Why can't they make their protos look good)

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

I am going to rank in a new way.. The best looking cars. The cars along with the liveries we have seen are all factors. That is one thing that dings Toyota even though I like the car. The livery of Toyota Gazoo racing is so bland.

1. Cadillac (looks like the Corvette DP styling. All 3 colors are great too)
2. Ferrari
3. Peugeot (looks most like a GT car)
4. Toyota (I have grown into it after not liking it at first, livery still stinks)
5. Vanwall
6. bmw
7. glickenhaus
8. Porsche (too LMPish looking and generic. Penske livery sucks)
9. Acura (hate it, looks like a generic lmp car more than any other. The NSX Gt3 car looks good. Why can't they make their protos look good)

Interesting. I'd put the blue Glick head and shoulders above everything else on looks....

[Adam43]

Update after Long Beach and Spa…

[Mike E]

Not a subjective ranking, just the WEC Manufacturers points table after Spa:

Toyota 90
Ferrari 57
Porsche 42
Cadillac 40
Peugeot 19
Glickenhaus 12
Vanwall 6

[Adam43]

Looks like the adding up pretty much reflects the current state of play.

My subjective post Spa.

1. Toyota (no move)
Still the top and again I feel the gap is a little less now.
No reliability issues this time.
Going into the big one with confidence and the clear favorites.

2. Acura (no move)
No race. Would love to see their pace in WEC.

3. Ferrari (no move)
The pace is pretty much there.
The inability to warm up the tyres almost made them drop on this list!
I need to look at the relative performance of the drivers. Nothing is jumping out, but are they all as strong as each other.
At the last race I got the impression Ferrari was using more energy for its pace relative to Toyota. Is his true. Difficult to tell at Spa as I was distracted by the tyres.

4. Caddilac (up 1)
Best thing about the race,Van der Zande walking away unscathed.
I hope the crash doesn’t set them back.
I am still loving how drivable it looks.

5. Porsche (down 1)
OK. A 4th. Fine.
Reliability a concern, with Porsche! As Aysedasi points out, not even Porsche can expect instant success in this new world.

6. BMW (no change)
Could be above Porsche?

7. Peugeot (no change)
Better than Sebring. Better than Portimao. But still 7th.

8. Glickenhaus (no change)
At one point they’d played it well and were quite high up, but others recovered.

9.Vanwall (no change)
Villeneuve still grabbing all the (bad) luck there.

[Adam43]

Looking at lap times (not just the fastest) the order from Spa looks like.

Rank	Manufacturer	No.	30th best lap	Gap to next
1.	Ferrari !	51	2:06.600
2.	Toyota	7	2:07.042	0.442
3.	Caddilac	2	2:07.735	0.693
4.	Porsche	5	2:08.377	0.642
5.	Peugeot	94	2:08.827	0.450
6.	Glickenhaus	708	2:09.365	0.538
7.	Vanwall	4	2:11.669	2.304

Vanwall might be suffering a little here with having a shorter race, but they are the slowest.

There is no real reason I chose 30th best lap, other than it kind of shows the gaps in the chart well.

The best performing car from the race was chosen for the chart and table.

For me the power rankings aren't just lap times, but this is interesting.

[Adam43]

IMSA race next.

A chance for BMW to move up the rankings? …

[Adam43]

Back to Sebring. A combined table for IMSA and WEC would look like this:

Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 50	Top 100
1	W8 Toyota	1:47.885	1:48.427	1:48.987	1:49.280
2	W7 Toyota	1:48.362	1:48.718	1:49.051	1:49.378
3	W50 Ferrari	1:48.483	1:48.855	1:49.312	1:49.613
4	I10 Acura	1:48.733	1:48.909	1:49.433	1:49.915
5	I31 Cadillac	1:48.406	1:48.833	1:49.452	1:49.929
6	W2 Cadillac	1:48.607	1:49.107	1:49.548	1:49.861
7	I1 Cadillac	1:48.311	1:48.746	1:49.599	1:50.239
8	I7 Porsche	1:48.668	1:49.137	1:49.744	1:50.291
9	W51 Ferrari	1:48.892	1:49.220	1:49.869	1:50.300
10	I60 Acura	1:49.018	1:49.279	1:49.875	1:50.324
11	I25 BMW	1:48.399	1:49.525	1:50.060	1:50.552
12	I6 Porsche	1:49.033	1:49.387	1:50.062	1:50.544
13	W6 Porsche	1:49.324	1:49.573	1:50.117	1:50.542
14	W5 Porsche	1:49.511	1:49.844	1:50.351	1:50.754
15	W94 Peugeot	1:50.092	1:50.349	1:50.789	1:51.273
16	I24 BMW	1:49.805	1:50.456	1:51.126	1:51.908
17	W93 Peugeot	1:50.478	1:50.893	1:51.221	1:51.513
18	W4 Vanwall	1:50.788	1:51.157	1:52.050	1:52.689
19	W708 Glickenhaus	1:51.620	1:52.119	1:56.587

(in order of the Top 50 laps times)

W is WEC and I is IMSA. Then the car number.

[joeb]

I think it would be interesting for an all green race, that way we can see if any of the hypercars actually have an advantage. Yes BMW is catching up, but without cautions will they be near the front?

I know caution free is rare for IMSA, but the P3's aren't here so.....

[veeten]

Coming up,... the latest rankings post Laguna Seca.

[Adam43]

That’s a difficult one!

[joeb]

I'm guessing the power rankings post Laguna are actually just pit strategy rankings.....

[Adam43]

To try and help with the rankings, but not the be all and end all here is a look at lap times.

This can be considered the relative pace of the the cars to the fastest at the most recent IMSA and WEC race.

Rank	Manufacturer	Lap%
1	Ferrari	100.00%
2	Toyota	100.21%
3	Cadillac	100.88%
4	Porsche	101.28%
5	Acura	101.34%
6	BMW	101.45%
7	Peugeot	101.70%
8	Glickenhaus	102.05%
9	Vanwall	104.01%

(Comedy) Method:

• The average of the top 20 lap times for each car at Laguna Seca was considered and the top 50 for Spa (considering the different race lengths)
• The fastest car from each race was considered. The lap times compared to the fastest car overall. Hence Ferrari (only in Spa) was the fastest and is 100%
• The Porsche and Caddy fastest were averaged in Laguna Seca and Spa and aligned.

Notes:

• A great deal of thought did not go into choosing top 20 and top 50.
• This is only the most recent races for IMSA and WEC

[Adam43]

My Post Laguna Seca power rankings

Ranking, manufacturer, movement since Spa, relative pace of last IMSA/WEC race combined (see above)

1. Toyota (no move) 100.21%
No race, no challenge.

2. Ferrari (up 1) 100.00%
No race and up one! Madness?!
Well, the reason they remained third after Spa was the race craft, the preparation and the running in different conditions.
The Achilles heel of cold tyres has just been removed by allowing tyre warmers at Le Mans. They get a boost for that. I still think that overall Toyota have the race nous and experience to win out. Less so the speed. In theory Ferrari has the pace. In theory.

3. Caddilac (up 1) 100.88%
They won and deserved it in Laguna Seca. Made it count. Overcame their recent set backs from crashes. Looks a nice car to drive generally (although did see a lock up in the heat of battle).
But 3rd, 4th and 5th in this ranking are super close.

4. Porsche (up 1) 101.28%
An IMSA win followed by very strong practice and qualifying. And then lock-up! Difficult under braking, maybe? And then under pressure a crash.
Still some nice early showings from two privateer teams that went straight in at the deep end.

5. Acura (down 3) 101.34%
Super close 3rd - 5th, so a little unlucky here. Had pace at moments at Laguna Seca, but didn't get it to stick.

6. BMW (no change) 101.45%
Just behind the other three. Occasionally got amongst them (it is all very close)

7. Peugeot (no change) 101.70%
No race, but the Peugeot thread shows everyone is concerned.

8. Glickenhaus (no change) 102.50%
Continue to get stronger after Sebring, but not quick enough to challenge the factory produced machines.

9.Vanwall (no change) 104.01%
Vanwall. Villeneuve. Non vicisse.

[GT3_Fan]

Post Laguna and Spa. I'll do next one mid July.

1. Toyota
2. Cadillac
3. Ferrari
4. Porsche
5. Acura
6. BMW
7. Peugeot
8. Vanwall
9. Glickenhaus

[Adam43]

Cadillac in second. They weren’t having the best of rims coming into the race. And then what do you know they went and won it.

[skycafe]

It looks very driveable and can benefit from instant torque, which is perfect for the tight IMSA tracks.

And it is "Cadillac."

[GT3_Fan]

Originally Posted by skycafe

It looks very driveable and can benefit from instant torque, which is perfect for the tight IMSA tracks.

And it is "Cadillac."

I am digging the Caddy VSR so far. The Caddy DPI sound great. The looks were meh. The Caddy VSR however looks like a hypercarish Corvette DP. Still has that great GM grunt sound to it.

[Adam43]

Apart from the brake by wire that everyone seems to still be getting to grips varying degrees it looks like it hangles really well. Nice and controllable. A joy to watch when the drivers start leaning on it.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Adam43

...

This can be considered the relative pace of the cars to the fastest ...

This looks at the relative pace of the cars after different weekends. After Sebring (then we'd had a race of each), after the April weekend of Portimao and Long Beach, then updated after Spa (with Long Beach) and Laguna Seca (with Spa).

The (Comedy) Method:

• The average of the Top 50 laps for each race (Top 20 for the shorter 1:40 and 1:20 races).
• The fastest car from each race was considered. The lap times compared to the fastest car overall in that race.
• For the cars in both races (The Porsche and Caddy) the fastest were averaged across the most recent IMSA and WEC race.
• Then the cars that are only in one of the races are indexed to this.
• The fastest overall index is then set at 100% and the others expressed relative to this.

Notes:

• A great deal of thought did not go into choosing why top 20 for the shorter races or why top 50 for the faster ones - it just seemed a good compromise between trying to reflect consistency, but also not getting drop off due to conditions, or race dynamics.
• At Sebring Vanwall and Glickenhaus didn't have the best, it is actually their Top 20 relative to the other's top 20. Otherwise they would have looked a lot worse.
• If you don't race in the weekend your position may still change depending on how the benchmarked Caddilac and Porsche do.

[Adam43]

Hot takes? None really. Wam takes? Maybe some.

Firstly, all these should be considered in the context of the scale. These are all close, especially the big factory teams.

Vanwall haven’t matched their Sebring pace. Whereas Glickenhaus have made he biggest gains after a terrible Sebring. They hadn’t tested for ages beforehand, but maybe there is also a change as to the type of circuit that suited each car.

Peugeot they are where they are.

BMW have had their moments, every now and again in a race, but that isn’t really showing here. I think that realistically shows where they are.

Acura have dropped away after their strong start (Daytona also isn’t included here).

Porsche dropped away after finding some pace on the Long Beach weekend.

And then Ferrari. We got a hint with that pole in Sebring, but it took them three races to get to the top. However, in that race they might have the fast consistency, but it was ruined by the awful tyre warming - at the other end of the fast lap spectrum they were nowhere.

[veeten]

Hey, guys... Been over on YouTube and saw a video doing a comparison of the racers. Right now it's about the cars in IMSA, more based on the overall looks of each one. There is to be another based on WEC entries coming soon.

If performance info will be used later in another video, then we could say that our thread may have been an impetus for it. Check it out for yourself.

[Adam43]

I’ve tried to find it. Failed.

There are some videos on racer. Tech and sounds of each one. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...44ZfoyDHTmlke2
Pretty old now, but not bad.