[WEC] WEC penalties. Is there an answer?

[chernaudi]

Also relating back to the "good old days" (though that for me was basically from 2000-2008, maybe a bit before that), track limits abuses were almost non-existent because no track (until Fuji got reworked by Tilke for F1 to run there) had the parking lot sized paved run off. Even tracks that had massive run off areas they were usually grass or grass and gravel pits. You didn't want to put a wheel off on that stuff, as you'd either lose time, spin out or risk getting stuck.


And even then, Fuji did have grass verges before the pavement to discourage track limits abuses. There's a reason why even F1 are reverting to more grass run-off areas next to the track.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

IMO, there's been plenty of questionable moves made in both IMSA and the WEC, and even the WEC issuing more penalties hasn't curbed their issues (not helped IMO by taking forever compared to IMSA to issue penalties, due to the steward's rule by committee and calling people to race control to explain themselves or voice their grievances for the aggrieved party).

The IMSA race at Road America had more dodgy driving than the entire season of WEC.

[chernaudi]

IMO, LM had just as much weird stuff going on as Road America did. As I said, LM is the only WEC or IMSA race I've watched live this year, but following the forum discussion on here, I'd argue that both series (and the ELMS) have some major work to do as far as driving standards.


And IMO, it comes down to which is better or worse? Present day IMSA where they don't issue seemingly as many penalties but when they do it does get done quickly, or the WEC where it's basically rule by committee and they may call more penalties, but it takes seemingly forever and a day--even for outright blatant stuff--to issue a penalty?


IMO, only way in either series to fix driving standards is issue penalties, issue them quickly, and be consistent. And IMO for the WEC, that means abandoning the stewards panel and placing everything in the hands of the race director or someone he delegates that authority to. Look at how in recent years that F1's stewards panel has been roundly criticized and there's been calls to either have paid, professional, permanent officials on the panel, or abolish it.


IMO, the F1 and WEC stewarding panel is like NASCAR's appeals panel, and don't get me started on how that works.


And also, we can't discount though, in either case, the race director might have their hands tied by what the sanctioning body wants. IMSA is basically owned by NASCAR, after all...

[chunterer]

That's another huge filip for the hypercar category.

Hyundai choosing prototypes over F1!

Oreca chassis choice seems very sensible but I wonder who will run the programme. Yes Ganassi is strongly linked but it could be an outfit more used to building and developing cars like RMG who recently split with BMW?

[flatlandsman]

I think earlier posts have mentioned the stewards, this needs sorting, it needs to have driver input from both classes, bit as GT and proto.

I think driving standards are less of an issue than pointless penalties for things that are just rule books penalties and make no common sense as already mentioned.

F1 sets the trend for this, all top racing classes have sadly followed, bike racing used to be far more free and less inhibited, but is now almost as bad as f1 in some ways, and yet they still let all sorts of things go that are hugely dangerous yet if you touch a track limits line by a millimeter you lose your position, it is boring, pedantic and silly, and less than helpful for fans and live crowds.

I think WEC is actually a bit better than IMSA usually, some of the pit-lane stuff that gets nailed in IMSA makes no sense to me at all. it is all in the name of safety but some of it just seems hugely pedantic and unnecessary.

The thing is, all the teams know, but as I said earlier, I think in both series these days, if you can get to the end of a 6 hour race without a penalty I think you can feel very pleased with yourself. And for me that is not a great way to go racing.

[TF110]

We may find out next season. Some rumors of lmp2 teams being tasked to set up to run the Hyundai like Cool Racing.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

IMO, LM had just as much weird stuff going on as Road America did.

The only incidents that come to mind at Le Mans are Kubica vs the BMW (punished), and the Ferrari spinning the Toyota (also punished, but perhaps not severely enough). This doesn't equal Road America which was more or less unsanctioned bumper car racing in the GT ranks.

[chernaudi]

You seem to be forgetting the Penske Porsche punting the Iron Dames Lamborghini off in the Porsche Curves. But if I remember correctly, it took the stewards anywhere from at least 20 minutes to a half hour if not more to make a decision to penalize on either count.


Not to mention the no-call on the Ferrari's door being open (yes, they did make them close it, but on the next pit stop rather then calling them in right away).

[Gerard C]

Lets see how they manage track limits infringements in Japan this weekend. The grass is green so far.

[MitchZ06]

I get some of the comments here, accidentally touching a car and copping 30 sec stop hold does seem harsh but it's like we're forgetting something here.

It's a World Championship, there isn't a series any higher than this for sportscars. If you want to race with the best then that means everyone involved has rules to follow and must follow them. This isn't under 8s rugby, it's the peak level you can achieve in sportscar racing. Penalties wouldn't be getting handed out if rules were being followed and teams were performing how they are expected to.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

I get some of the comments here, accidentally touching a car and copping 30 sec stop hold does seem harsh but it's like we're forgetting something here.

It's a World Championship, there isn't a series any higher than this for sportscars. If you want to race with the best then that means everyone involved has rules to follow and must follow them. This isn't under 8s rugby, it's the peak level you can achieve in sportscar racing. Penalties wouldn't be getting handed out if rules were being followed and teams were performing how they are expected to.

+1

[Adam43]

I thought the penalties were fine and seemed to be decided pretty quickly in Fuji. Was that the case?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I thought the penalties were fine and seemed to be decided pretty quickly in Fuji. Was that the case?

I didn't see any problems. The competitors have been aware of the rules since the beginning of the season.

[chernaudi]

Even if the competitors and the race director are aware/familiar with the rules since the start of the season (as well as any changes since then), you can't always say the same of the officials on the stewards panel, since they rotate every race (subject to availability) and none I believe are permanent members (big reason I'm in favor of abolishing the stewards panel in the WEC and F1 and placing things entirely in the hands of the race director or someone he or the sanctioning body delegates who is permanently in that post).


However, this time (and maybe in response to previous rounds, too), penalties were quickly handed out, especially for avoidable contact and rough/questionable driving. And I also believe that everyone on this panel did do at least one previous WEC event this season, too, which probably helped.

The irony, though, for as much as IMSA's driving standards have been complained about, I do have to say that starting at LM that WEC driving standards have gone downhill, with Fuji being the low point. Most incidents were hypercar vs hypercar (though there was a major one between an Alpine and a Corvette).



And that gets back to things that were previously discussed. Namely that the competition is so close now that drivers are racing every lap like it's qualifying or the last lap and aren't showing patience, due to the fact that any small advantage could end up being significant. But at the same time, you can't go for something that's not there, be it gap or advantage, and you can't just force things to happen all the time.


Watch the NASCAR race from Watkins Glen for the ultimate example this weekend...

[KlBD]

What Estre said about putting Toyota in a position where they need to push and take risks applies to everyone and for me explains the uptick in incidents. We may only be in the second season of Hypercars and LMDHs, but with this many manufacturers the writing will probably soon be on the wall for some efforts, so drivers will certainly be pushing to make a case for their future employment.