Mercedes not happy with McLaren

[Glen]

Having said that, Norbert Haug has now moved the conversation on to the territory of staying in F1 - FOTA need to take budget cutting very much more seriously, or they will lose the car manufacturers.

[av8rirl]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

I suspect that Ross Brawn and Christian Horner (and indeed Vijay Mallya) would contest your claim that they're a bunch of nobodies; and while Hamilton might be last year's WDC, he's not going to be challenging for the title this year. So if it's true that Mercedes aren't happy with the current situation with McLaren and they want to switch the bulk of their resources to another team, I can't see how they could be presented with a much better opportunity than currently exists.

Early days yet and you never can tell from FP1 but if you look here... maybe things are looking better for Mac??

Personally I don't see Brawn holding their advantage for a long time. I know it was wet but the Red Bull 1 & 2 in China indicates that Brawn don't have the advantage they held at the first two races!

[Glen]

Early days indeed. Just to relate this practice 1 business to the thread theme - low fuel and soft tyres = nice publicity at a time when McLaren could use some nice publicity.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Glen

Early days indeed. Just to relate this practice 1 business to the thread theme - low fuel and soft tyres = nice publicity at a time when McLaren could use some nice publicity.

this constant knocking of mac is really tedious ...

[steve_r]

Hamilton was P1 in the 1st Chinese practice as well IIRC.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

this constant knocking of mac is really tedious ...

Let's see where they qualify then - if its not nearly as good as this result you will see that I am not knocking, merely being realistic.

If however their speed is genuine I will be the first to acknowledge the improvement.

This thread is about Mercedes being unhappy with the culture at McLaren (as reported throughout the F1 media, not me "knocking") - I was only trying to get back on topic.

[Raven]

The thing is Glen, most of us assume McLaren ran light in practice, just as they did in Shanghai. Teams can do whatever they want in practice.

There's no need to publicly put a downer on every single thing they do.

[shiny side up!]

Originally Posted by the.cosmic.pope

Red Bull are also negotiating with Renault. I suspect the reason they have negotiations outside of Renault is in case Renault decide to pack up and leave, which has been a real possibility for a few years.

Even if Renault pack up and leave as a works team, might they consider keeping the engine program running in the back of another car, especially if that car is competitive? With a "freeze" on engine development (I think until 2013?), perhaps it would be a potentially cost-effective way to keep their name in the sport if the team itself exits...

[Adam43]

Glen would never do that, he is quite impartial when it comes to McLaren and it is just a coincidence that he started this thread.

There have been a lot of press about all who are connected to McLaren at the moment. It aint easy to get out of contracts, although performance clauses are cited.

A win looks a way off, but a good result is needed. I don't think a quick time in practice will do it, or that McLaren are trying for that.

[JeremySmith]

McLaren are not happy about the second world, never mind...

[Tourer]

I know what he is getting at but thought that this quote from Haug was actually pretty funny -"At least once a year we evaluate the situation in Formula 1 and think about our future in the sport. There's always the option to change our position in F1 and simply become an engine supplier only."

Yes, I know that Benz have a big investment in McL (and presumably a pretty good return as well) but in terms of the F1 car they are an engine supplier only right now - not much position change there I would have thought?

They all like to call each other partners and all that but maybe the old Norbert is letting it all go to his head a bit?

[Marbot]

I can only imagine many heads being held in many hands in many a board room meeting since Melbourne.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Raven

The thing is Glen, most of us assume McLaren ran light in practice, just as they did in Shanghai. Teams can do whatever they want in practice.

There's no need to publicly put a downer on every single thing they do.

OK, I'll stop with the McLaren thing and just let them do their talking in the track. Good luck to them - I especially wish Heikki another good race, because I like his quiet get on with it sort of manner.

[Andrew2001]

I think that mercedes should take a step back and realise that it was their egg like engines that costed McLaren numerous wins in '99-01, and a whole championship went up in smoke in 2000. It wasn't until 2003 that they began to build an engine anything like what was required.

[the.cosmic.pope]

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

I think that mercedes should take a step back and realise that it was their egg like engines that costed McLaren numerous wins in '99-01, and a whole championship went up in smoke in 2000. It wasn't until 2003 that they began to build an engine anything like what was required.

Got to remember that when exotic materials were banned in engine use it was directly aimed at Mercedes, who had based there entire engine development around these techniques. They struggled to get the performance and reliability back after that.

McLaren should take a step back and realise it was Mercedes that brought them there only championships since Honda left.

[Knowlesy]

Nothing to do with having great drivers and great designers then.

[Rory]

Originally Posted by Glen

Let's see where they qualify then - if its not nearly as good as this result you will see that I am not knocking, merely being realistic.

If however their speed is genuine I will be the first to acknowledge the improvement.

This thread is about Mercedes being unhappy with the culture at McLaren (as reported throughout the F1 media, not me "knocking") - I was only trying to get back on topic.

I'd say the qualifying today and the 5th for Hamilton shows that McLaren are not a million miles away now. Come Barcelona, with a (hopefully) revised aero and diffuser package, I'd think that they'll be there or there abouts.

So Glen - waiting for you to acknowledge that the good P1 showing was not purely show boating for the watching media.

[paddy]

From watching all the practice i would say Hamilton has been close to the pace all weekend, particularly on the harder tyres. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the podium tomorrow. I wouldn't rule him out for the title either as I can see plenty of drivers taking race wins this season without anyone driver or team being dominant. Mercedes would be unwise to rush into anything in my view as MacLaren will be more likely to get it right more often than most.

[Moneyseeker]

Important to remember that F1 is not Mercedes core business, it's discretionary spend as an add on to other marketing and brand building activity. Anyone connected with Mercedes F1 program will report to the main board who ultimately decide if and what they do.

It's a bit of a perfect storm for McLaren - they are up infront of the stewards again - been seen to lie which will upset Mercedes integrity and brand values, the general car sales climates is poor and of course Brawn GP has bowled up and done a better job with a car/engine combination put together at the last minute - getting wins as a Brawn-Mercedes, at no cost to Daimler AG.....

[IB Tim]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

I don't suppose a switch of investment to Brawn GP could be a possibility..?

Selby

I bet it is already done

[the.cosmic.pope]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Nothing to do with having great drivers and great designers then.

I didn't say that. But telling Mercedes to be appreciative of what McLaren did for them whilst discounting what Mercedes did for McLaren is ridiculous. Therefore I swung the argument to the opposite extreme to show that.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Rory

I'd say the qualifying today and the 5th for Hamilton shows that McLaren are not a million miles away now. Come Barcelona, with a (hopefully) revised aero and diffuser package, I'd think that they'll be there or there abouts.

So Glen - waiting for you to acknowledge that the good P1 showing was not purely show boating for the watching media.

I would have done this sooner - but on a beautiful sunny day like yeserday turning on the computer was the last thing on my mind - well done Hamilton, exceptional performance in a well-fuelled car. I hope he can look after his tyres in the heat. Very impressive comeback from McLaren - maybe some of their defecit was circuit related (and maybe some of the Brawn advantage was similarly down to circumstance).

[Marbot]

This could be an influential factor.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21423.html

[Devilsadvocate]

"We look into our Formula One engagement every year. But we wouldn't save a cent this year if we quit Formula One now because we have long-term contracts," said board member Bodo Uebber.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Marbot

This could be an influential factor.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21423.html

I had to take a double-check when I looked at the link.

My first thought was ' how can they lose that much money in one qualifying session, I know the FIA can wield some big fines but that's crazy'!!!!