F3 out of AGP - NC out of AGP and Indy?

[RaceTime]

Is the racing from cars artifically placed at the rear of grid trying to get back to the front or from genuine racing?

IMHO the only passing you see these days is the car trying to retrieve a lost spot (spin, stuffed up pit stop etc) - but notice, even with these cars, like cream they float to the top - but they still only get to a certain point before that wall that is named Project Blueprint descends and stops all further forward progress unless someone in front has a problem or makes a mistake.

Sorry - in my book that is not motor racing.

[Crash Test]

I dunno, what I saw with my two eyes was close racing and battles the whole way through the pack. Ok, Ambrose ****ed off at OP, but at QR that was a cracker drive back to near the front. If you can't accept that, just get over it

[GTRMagic]

Ambrose did the same at Eastern Creek too... but it didnt mean it wasnt a good race

[RaceTime]

Crash - like it or not - the figures and the lap chart speak for themselves - those that started at the fron, finished at the front - the only 2 cars that finished in the top 10 that didn't start in the top ten were Murphy (started from 11th), Kelly (started from 16th) and Weel (started in 24th).

Now whether your eyes saw it or not, what was shown interstate was becoming as boring as hell - I am not disputing that, mid-field, some dicing is taking place - but you look at the lap charts and you will see very little exchanging of positions during the race that isn't due to a pit stop, mechanical failure or driver error forcing a car to go off and lose positions IOW positions are not, in general, changing because of superior cars of superior driving ability.

At QLD all positions were relatively static until lap 41 - then chaos breaks out (well pit stops) and, once the pit stops are all done with around laps 55-57 - guess what - it all settles down nicely again with the only real changes of positions being between 888 and 6 - and even these two only make up positions because Skaife falls out of the race.

[Chucky]

Isn't John COwley one of those leaving PROCAR?

If so, he probably wouldn't be trying too hard or even care that much. It may even be a related problem.

[Crash Test]

Statistically you're a better chance of dying from smoking than bungee jumping, but bungee jumping remains a more exciting persuit than smoking

[Onlooker]

Racetime- wouldn't it be fair to assume that when you line groups of things up in order of fastest first and slowest last that when you release these projectiles the ones that travel fastest and started at the front would be unlikely to be overtaken by a slower moving object? I may not have been to sharp at school but that was my understanding.
If however you line cars up in the order of fastest behind slower and then estimate that a certain amount of ballast added to the faster car will prevent it from passing the slower one untill meters before the finish and then take this vehicle and put it at the back again with more weight added and start again,only to remove all weight for the next round and start the proccess again is a more purer form of motorsport then I disagree.
my humble apoligies if i have mis understood this.

[Crash Test]

I don't want to get started on conspiracies and websites going down, but Racetime started this thread, and his website says-

"This account is temporarily unavailable."

[Chucky]

He might have taken a photo of a C10 camera.

He may end up in a shallow hole out the back of Orange for that.

[smithers]

Reply from Rossco on the Procar Forum;


[a]Nations Cup,GTP and V8 BRutes are competing in the Indy event in 2004.We are hopeful that the 8 year long relationship with GOLD COAST MOTOR EVENTS will also continue into the future.
[b]Procar has a long term contract with the South Australain Motorsport Board to supply all of it,s categories to the Clipsal 500.
[c] Procar has been negotiating with the AGP for the 2005 event . No official determination has been recieved at this point from the organizers.
PVDA could you please post this in the ten-tenths forum.

[zonda]

Rumour has it a MR TC has been frequenting channel 7 very regularly in the last few months. The rumour is that he is trying to get the Konica's / Carerra Cup put onto 7 on sunday after noon with Channel 10 still doing the SuperCars and regular stuff. As track side has not been rating well at all it would seem an interesting solution.
Also as part of this no doubt ProCar would be given the arse and as such have no network to show on, unless 9, 2 or SBS would want to take it up.

Sounds very similar to the footy situation with 9/10 sharing the goods, but in this case 7 and 10.

dave

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by Onlooker
Racetime- wouldn't it be fair to assume that when you line groups of things up in order of fastest first and slowest last that when you release these projectiles the ones that travel fastest and started at the front would be unlikely to be overtaken by a slower moving object? I may not have been to sharp at school but that was my understanding.
If however you line cars up in the order of fastest behind slower and then estimate that a certain amount of ballast added to the faster car will prevent it from passing the slower one untill meters before the finish and then take this vehicle and put it at the back again with more weight added and start again,only to remove all weight for the next round and start the proccess again is a more purer form of motorsport then I disagree.
my humble apoligies if i have mis understood this.

In essence - yes this is correct - it is, to use a historic racing term, simply handicapping.

But - and this is where the problems start - putting ballast in a car still allows the superior or inferior aspects of a car to be used to advantage eg a Porsche may have much better braking thatn, say, a Dodge Viper. Even with ballast this advantage will still be there to be used . The Viper may have a massive acceleration advantage over the Porsche - the ballastes helps even things up during a lap BUT the differences in braking and acceleration allow racing to take place.

But in the case of V8's they aren't using ballast - they are using physical components - thus the brakes on, say, Skaifes car, ar no better, in theory at least, that the brakes on Paul Romanos car (OK OK - Skaife doesn't use panels!). Similarly in the acceleration department.

So it comes down to none of the cars having any advantage or disadvantage in relation to any other car - except for the driver - and, because of Project Blueprint, the drivers skills or otherwise are no longer as important as they are in a category where ballast is used.

Hope this is a bit clearer...

[iconic]

if it goes to 9, it will be aweful. i don't want daryl eastlake commentating, he just likes to shout. did you hear his reaction to the superbikes (?) at a wet phillip island? when 2 riders feel off. i was bloody scared, and he sounded enthusiastic!

maybe back to speedweek? but hopefully it will stay on 7.

[Crash Test]

I think it goes for everyone, but even if you have 'quite reliable' sources, use a bit of discretion when posting..

[The Tool Man]

Until channel 7 had procar and after the "other" Bathurst died and they no longer had a October Gig, they treated the V8s and most other motorsport with total contempt one Bathurst I deliberately watched 7 and from thursday to Monday there was NO mention of the race on the mountain despite Bargs and Garth having won it. Not a word.

So now the boot is on the other foot.

[RaceTime]

Crash - re-read ross's post - he still hasn't clarified about INdy for this year - he mentions '2004' - he's been asked if it is a typo but, although answering later questions, hasn't come back on that one.

And I did say, from the start, 'usually reliable' - then asked others for confirmation.

[D.R.T.]

Originally posted by zonda
Rumour has it a MR TC has been frequenting channel 7 very regularly in the last few months. The rumour is that he is trying to get the Konica's / Carerra Cup put onto 7 on sunday after noon with Channel 10 still doing the SuperCars and regular stuff. As track side has not been rating well at all it would seem an interesting solution.
Also as part of this no doubt ProCar would be given the arse and as such have no network to show on, unless 9, 2 or SBS would want to take it up.



dave

I dont see 7 dropping Procar for the the abismal trackside because, if Procar goes so does the 24 Hour

[RaceTime]

BUt just howmuch of the 24 hour are 7 showing? If last year is any indication - very little...

[GTRMagic]

7 hours of coverage I believe is the contracted minimum, but PROCAR have some leverage I believe to extend that

[racer69]

hmmm, if i was Channel 7 i'd be putting my full effort behind PROCAR, rather than a foot in both camps (and in the AVESCO camp, the lower level series). Apart from that, i believe that the PROCAR shows appeal to a wider audience on TV.

If the 'Home of Motorsport' can't get ratings out of it, how can anyone else............(maybe give Trackside a regular timeslot, not every so often on a sunday from 3-5, sorry 3.30-5, sorry 3-4, oh sorry know it is 1.30-3......)

As much as i'd discount it as a little rumour, i would love to see TC's face if he announced that a V8Supercar series would be shown on 7......

[rossp1]

I don,t think so his contracts are fairly tight with 10 and demand exclusivety.

[rossp1]

Racer 69 have you ever thought of a career in "fairy story telling"?

[RaceTime]

we have many seeking a career in that write here all the time....some practice it well, others are still learning the fine arts involved

[racer69]

Originally posted by rossp1
Racer 69 have you ever thought of a career in "fairy story telling"?

I was just commenting on a statement made in an earlier post by zonda that apparently Cochrane was sounding out Channel 7.

[zonda]

no the rumour was they where not taking trackside, just the Konica's / Carerra's, (not the rest of the stuff )and in return they would HAVE to dump procar. This is just rumour, but having spoken to a few people who work in and around seven he tc has been there a fair bit lately. I think its basically to try and remove procar from a prominant network.

dave

just an edit, this is no way my feeling towards procar by the way, i love the idea of proper sportscars racing in this country, thus my love of the 24hr idea. But this is just what is being said behind the scenes.