2021 Argentine touring car championships

[NaBUru38]

!!!

Several TC fans hate the decision...

[TuteZaek]

The fans critize the cars not being production based or having the original egnine but swear by the trueno naranja, the liebres and the "Lets weld a Ford t chasis to the structure so the car Is production based" Pronello Huayra Ford v8 (ironically the succesor trueno naranja Chevrolet Is the same car basically)

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

Toyota coming to the TC championship in 2022!
The brand and the ACTC announced the introduction of a new car in the form of a Camry silhouette for the 2022 championship.
Is the first new brand and model for the series in decades, and could open the door to a modernizatión of the models represented in the TC.
The question now lies in the balance of the new model against the other 4, that aré already pretty tight. For now It seems that it will use the Cherokee engine, same as the Torino and Dodge, and same as on those, it should have an unique power profile for the model (the Cherokees on those aren't on the same specs, the Torino are reving higher, to almost 9000rpm and have more power to compensate for the brick aerodynamics of the body)

https://www.solotc.com.ar/toyota-cam...ructura-motor/

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

https://www.solotc.com.ar/toyota-cam...ructura-motor/

That's interesting, i think it's a good thing to base it on the existing chasis, the pickups work really well on the modified Torino base, but it sound kinda interim, specially since the "new structures" are coming sometime in the future since sometime in the past.

On another tune, the Ford chasis that is the only one based on the old structures because aventin doesn't seem too liked by the technical departament.

[FIRE]

This is BIG news!

If I understand correctly current cars are based (or at least some body shapes) on cars from the 70s. Does this mean the Toyota is based on the first generation of the Camry?



To be honest the shape of a 70s Carolla would make more sense:

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

That's interesting, i think it's a good thing to base it on the existing chasis, the pickups work really well on the modified Torino base, but it sound kinda interim, specially since the "new structures" are coming sometime in the future since sometime in the past.

On another tune, the Ford chasis that is the only one based on the old structures because aventin doesn't seem too liked by the technical departament.

Do you mean they introduce totally new chassis and more modern looking bodies?

[FIRE]

Will Renault rebrand Torino to Renault?
Does this open the door for more manufacturers?

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by FIRE

This is BIG news!

If I understand correctly current cars are based (or at least some body shapes) on cars from the 70s. Does this mean the Toyota is based on the first generation of the Camry?



To be honest the shape of a 70s Carolla would make more sense:

Of course not, but that would be really nice.

The collective head banging and screaming in the argentine racing comunity is really amusing, most of them sound like never watched any form of racing. And then countless "TC must evolve it's dying" (how many categor?*es with 40+ cars per race are dying?) suddenly transformed on "this Will kill the TC!!!" It's weird

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Do you mean they introduce totally new chassis and more modern looking bodies?

The Camry for now, and will be an actual generation one, using a similar/based chasis to one of the actual structures in use (Dodge, Torino or Chevrolet only, the Ford one Is weird)
Jakos (Current chasis provider for the series) with imput from the ACTC Will make the first prototype and then the interested teams will have to buy the chasis, the same as the actual models.

The ACTC said that if there Is another brand interested they will allow it, in the same vein of Toyota, but it will not be open for private teams/individuals. So if Ford wants a Mustang, depending on the proyect, yes, but if "tutezaek racing" wants to race a Mustang TC without the Ford involvement, then the answer is no.

The Renault/Torino question... It's only Torino because the brand change from ika to Renault in it's moment i Guess.

The Renault Torino team works as a works team for Renault in the series, but, aside from branding, it's another normal team.
Toyota would be the same, from my undestanding, the cars/chasis will be Made by ACTC/Jakos and they'll buy them and race as a team.
On the other side, the Dole team (basically Jakos team) is the TGR representative on TC pickups, so, i suspect that they will be the ones racing them.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by FIRE

This is BIG news!

If I understand correctly current cars are based (or at least some body shapes) on cars from the 70s. Does this mean the Toyota is based on the first generation of the Camry?



To be honest the shape of a 70s Carolla would make more sense:

Those Toyota models were not sold in Argentina.
The Celica 79-81 was very sold in Argentina and would be the ideal model for the TC.

But I totally agree that they use a new model.
This already happened in the TC in the late 60's when the current cars replaced the old cupecitas !!!
https://www.solotc.com.ar/tc-toyota-...peiro-chevitu/

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Those Toyota models were not sold in Argentina.
The Celica 79-81 was very sold in Argentina and would be the ideal model for the TC.

But I totally agree that they use a new model.
This already happened in the TC in the late 60's when the current cars replaced the old cupecitas !!!
https://www.solotc.com.ar/tc-toyota-...peiro-chevitu/

That Celica with the crazy Aero and fire spitting engines would be too much awesome for this world.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

That Celica with the crazy Aero and fire spitting engines would be too much awesome for this world.

I love that Celica it was one of my favorite cars when I was a kid together with the Mazda RX7 first generation.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Will Renault rebrand Torino to Renault?
Does this open the door for more manufacturers?

Renault will be suisida if it decides to eliminate Torino.
Torino is the iconic car of the Argentines !!!!
Torino won the 84 hours of Nurburgring 1969!!!!
Officially the Torino was fourth but but but ...... the Torino did 334 laps and the Lancia that won 332 then .......?
http://touringcarracing.net/Races/19...g%2084hrs.html

A Torino Champion again would be the best advertisement for Renault in Argentina.

[IMG]
[/IMG]

[hondafan37]

If the Torino had been Lewis Hamilton, This car would have won the 84 hours of Nurburgring!!!!!!

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

If the Torino had been Lewis Hamilton, This car would have won the 84 hours of Nurburgring!!!!!!

The Torino as a "winning racecar"in tc is More of an consequence of being a modern car, with more modern-ish engines and with factory support racing the (by the Time) old school cars than it's own qualities, when the other compacts entered the scene, Torino faded away quickly, but it's legend stood. Then the "all powefull" tornado engine showed it's age and peculiarities of design, it's a torquey truck engine, an old truck (for the time) engine, when speeds went up, the thing (long stroke engine) could not keep up with the others, same with the lazy slant 6's, so they were thrown away.

The 84hs were weird, the cars were not legal, weren't stock/factory cars, but then allowed to race, it's an all arround weird thing, and even then, it's not a widely known race outside of Argentina.

It has its épic, sure, and the quad round lights nose it's beauty personified, but the Torino it's not the ultimate racecar that it's said to be.
In fact, never understood the "with the tornado, it would won it all, so they changed it" coments, the Torino was dying because the damm engine couldn't race the others for power* on equivalent displacement! But then myths are myths.

*The piston speed needed for the rpm (and consequently, power) would be faster than the combustion part of the cycle of the engine, crashing with it's own explosion.

[FIRE]

As a non-Argentinian I have no emotional link with TC so I like the entry of Toyota. Also I am not against some modernization of the cars, including the body styles.

Are there any sketches in media how the Toyota possible will look like?

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by FIRE

As a non-Argentinian I have no emotional link with TC so I like the entry of Toyota. Also I am not against some modernization of the cars, including the body styles.

Are there any sketches in media how the Toyota possible will look like?

I'm waiting those too, i think next week will be fan art, and some of it will be somewhat clóse. And other will be pure fantasy.

If i have to guess on apeareance, the roofline will be kinda close to the street car, there will be side pontons, and the tail is going to be heavily modified for aero, the aproach could be either heavy downforce high drag to "unclean" the base aero of the modern shape, or low drag, low downforce and making the car penalize on corners, so an artificial Ford/Torino like, or a Dodge aproach, the car, naturally balanced should be like the Chevrolet, an allarounder, high speed cornering car, but much much better)
The nose it's the big big question, as as of now, there aré two diferent front designs homologated for the cars, and are free to use for all 4 brands, but, maybe Toyota would want an specific nose, for comercial reasons (the front of a TC Is the prime advertising space, so much that the drivers/teams fighted against puting the brand logo of the cars in front, and won) the category Is in position of making a credible front for the modern silhouettes, as demostrated by the pickups, and a blunter, shorter "streetcar" like nose could help to balance down the advantages of the modern shape against the heavy sculpted, long, and low, streamlined noses of the other cars. My money is on using the homologated front, but anything could happen.
The side and rear of the car would look crazy either way.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by FIRE

As a non-Argentinian I have no emotional link with TC so I like the entry of Toyota. Also I am not against some modernization of the cars, including the body styles.

Are there any sketches in media how the Toyota possible will look like?

These are some renders:




But I think that the Camry will use the original factory horn.

[NaBUru38]

Let's wait for this guy: https://www.area75.com.ar/blog/

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

These are some renders:




But I think that the Camry will use the original factory horn.

Faster than i thought, i like them.

Edit: If the thing looks like this, i love it

[hondafan37]

Toyota to Turismo Carretera: Who wins and who loses?

The arrival of the Japanese brand as the fifth brand in the popular category caused a symbolic shock in Argentine motorsports.
The arrival of Toyota al Road Tourism from 2022 changes the paradigm of Argentine motorsport, which seemed to have some coherence until the decision of the Road Tourism Corridors Association to accept the order of the Japanese brand to be able to run with a Camry.

With the return of a terminal to the world of TC, something that had not happened since the late 1970s -beyond the presence of Renault sponsoring a squad-, a new story opens with an uncertain ending.

Road TourismUntil October 12, 2021, a day before the surprise decision was announced, the main categories of autochthonous motorsport were very well differentiated. Let's see…



TURISMO CARRETERA: he was leaning on his history and tradition with only four brands vying for glory: Chevrolet, Ford, Torino y Dodge;

SUPER TC2000: captured the interest from factories to reinforce their brand image with current models on the market, although with certain modifications such as suspension and engine the same for all.

TURISMO NACIONAL: hugs in the pure motorsport, in which a car is prepared to compete by providing it with special parts for the suspension, brakes and engine, among others, but always maintaining the DNA of each vehicle.

TOP RACE: It was based on prototypes born to run equipped with high-power engines.

Matias RossiThe use of the time spent in the analysis is not capricious since from October 13, 2021 it is exposed that anything can happen. What would prevent another brand from losing the ACTC that allows it to run in Road Tourism?

This is something that shouldn't affect the Top Race and TN too much, but it does. It could have a direct impact on the Super TC2000, which supports its business model in the presence of the terminals.

What would happen if Chevrolet, for example, also asked the ACTC to authorize the participation of the Chevrolet Camaro? When evaluating investments, those responsible for General Motors It would be easy for them to determine where they would get a higher return ...

Even this new course that the ACTC decided to take could produce the return of Ford, who after his departure from the TC at the end of '70 ended up with his official team in the TC2000 and maintained its presence there until a decade ago (with the now renowned Super TC2000 specialty).

Mustang Mach 1For the Oval, the Carretera Tourism races would be an excellent platform to promote the Mustang, a model that sells dropwise in the country, but that is synonymous with the power that the company wants to transmit.



For now they are all assumptions, but they could stop being so if Toyota's landing is successful and not only in the results section. Undoubtedly, the next few months will be momentous for the popular category, which relives a great simbronazo like the one that occurred when the Chevitú in the mid-'60 to give the cupecitas headaches.

All the changes are resisted and more those to which, with another management, the ACTC lowered its thumb. The bet of Hugo mazacane, president of teceista, is very strong. Under his mandate, the TC could enter into that transformation that many have asked of the entity, but that it never dared to carry out beyond the failed attempt of the TC Turbo in the mid '90s. A transformation that purists hate, who forget that today they encourage tubular structures with bodies that resemble vehicles of the past ...

With this measure, the ACTC made it clear that the modernization of the TC, in some way, is possible. And the entity will be responsible for ensuring that this step leaves everyone satisfied, even the most die-hard fans.

Mazzacane has the great chance to go down in history as the president of the ACTC who changed the course of the most important category in Argentina and not be left alone as the one who succeeded Oscar Aventin and who greeted the pilots before the final. It will surely be something that you will try to take advantage of, despite the costs you may have to pay.

The time, in short and as always, will have the last word.

https://www.automundo.com.ar/toyota-...-quien-pierde/

[TuteZaek]

The thing is, the TC Is a succesfull and healthy seres now, there are 40+ cars per race plus another 30/40 on the main feeder, the attendance it's the best of all the argentine series, and all the drivers want to race there (except Rossi, but he is weird, and may be the Toyota driver, so even he). The series won the power struggle with the STC2000 by almost a landslide, and it's shows.

Another thing, the TC is a truly independent and auto-suficcient series, almost everything mayor its either ACTC provided or nationally developed. There is not much influence of the terminals, there isn't that dependence of the brands that plagues so many series (and kills most of them, looking at you DTM and WTCC). The TC it's doing good! Now.

But then that's a problem in itself, the fórmula (pre Toyota oportuncrisis) doesn't have many ways of going forward, the cars represented aren't current anymore (and weren't, for at least 30 years), i am 34 years old, and can count with my hand the times i saw a Dodge Polara outside a meeting (or a TC Race) and every year i see less and less Falcons (my cousin has a sky-blue 65 on restoration tho), even less torinos and chevys. It's kinda the Harley Davidson Paradigm, you have a following, but for the new generations you mean nothing.

Not only that, but this Is racing, and even if the technical aspects of the cars (engine and chasis) are current development and impresive on themselves, the old model fixation are puting a limitation on that development.

The ACTC knows this, it's a hard place to be, they have to move the thing forward but breaking the actual succesfull status quo it's a risk.

The pickup spinoff was the first step, proved that the often viewed as conservartive dirigence was capable of having new ideas, and it was succesfull, the medium and compact trucks it's the industry battlefield in the country now, and they took advantage of this. Now they're having 30 trucks per race, and the number Is going up (and all of this with the pandemic in the middle).

The Toyota on the main series could be the step needed for breaking the stalemate, and it's ok for the TC doing it now, un fact, i think it's the best moment, if it's a failure, the already working base it's still there, if succesfull, well, even better. It's that or making a bigger change, as in changing all the models at the same time, a bigger risk, or not doing anything, enjoy the moment, and suffer a possible future (near or far) of a dozen cars per race and no interest by any brand.

That said, i love the guys saying "the TC Is dying" Every series in the world would love to be dying with those numbers of cars racing.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

These are some renders:




But I think that the Camry will use the original factory horn.

Thanks.

That's quite a revolution compared to current cars.
Looks bit like the previous Stock Car Brasil car.

[TuteZaek]

On other news, from other series, the TN class 3 did a faithfull F1 impression when the whole 1st qualifying group ended without lap times while fighting to not start the lap first so they could benefit from drafting.
The 11 car group was the one formed by the championship frontruners, including Santero, Pernia and Werner.
The pole position went for Yannantuoni, his first since the last race of 2019.

[hondafan37]

The Turismo Carretera (TC) could race in Brazil and Uruguay in 2023.
Punta del Este could be the first race in 2023.

https://www.fanactc.com/2021/10/se-t...BU1F3cCd_QPniA
https://www.instagram.com/p/CVWWjyrL...tXzVHmvQzBGyXc