1992 Australian Group A Touring Car Racing - Discussion & Results

[Amaroo Park]

Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Amaroo Park

Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them

..so Falcons from Glenn Seton and Dick Johnson would dominate the first few years of V8 racing. As I remember it, those aero kits were homologated season-by-season, so when something did or did not work, you were stuck with it.

Chunterer, go bye the dvd - you won't be disappointed. Bathurst 1992 had just about all the dramas you wouldn't write into a Hollywood script. The championship winning Nissan hounded by the Shell-Sierra, out for revenge, every inch of the way for the expected 161 laps, only to be cut short by some 20 or 30 odd laps. I think this was one of those few days that Dick Johnson went silent, simply because he was in stealth mode, focusing on that red Skyline in front of him, with a chance of winning the race once again. He and John Bowe finished second, but by my recockning their finest drive together ever.

Jesper

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

..so Falcons from Glenn Seton and Dick Johnson would dominate the first few years of V8 racing. As I remember it, those aero kits were homologated season-by-season, so when something did or did not work, you were stuck with it.

Holden were allowed a 're'-homologation during mid-1993, which promptly led to them dominating the remainder of the ATCC and Bathurst. The parity adjustment didn't even things up, just swung them the other way

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Amaroo Park

Even from this early stage the VP Commodore runners realised that there had been a serious mistake made by TWR in the design and development of Front & Rear Spoilers on the cars. HRT had developed them sent them to the UK for final sign off and the TWR engineers in the wisdom changed them

The funny part about it, Mr Brock knocked the front splitter off his VP at a race in '93, and the car actually went FASTER without it...

[Amaroo Park]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The funny part about it, Mr Brock knocked the front splitter off his VP at a race in '93, and the car actually went FASTER without it...

That was at the Winton round were Perkins was chasing Brock after he knoced the spoiler off. Brock set a faster time than both he and Perkins with out it

[racer69]

Was Phil Johnson's VL the ex-Tim Slako or ex-Alf Barbagallo car?
And what was the origin of Mike Steele's RS500?

[William Dale Jr]

Not sure about the VL, but I believe the Mike Steele Sierra was one of the ex-Brock units.

[htc]

the VL was ex Barbagallo

[Jesper OH]

Just noticed a thing about the Adelaide GP support race. I presume this was the last Group A race run in Australia and among the starters were Lawrie Nelson and his trusty Ford Mustang. 8 years earlier Lawrie and the 'Stang tried to make it to the start line of the Sandown 500 endurance race for the first Australian race featuring Group A cars! I guess this is a rare achievement in racing.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Notice that a Seton Falcon was in the entry for this round and as a Group A entry? Presumably the first EB to race competitively, and I would also guess the only one prior to the Sierra and GTR's being removed at the end of the season?

From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

Clarks Shoes Group A Finale
Adelaide Grand Prix Circuit, SA (7-8/11/1992)

Circuit Length: 3.78 km

Race 1 (7/11/1992)
Weather: Sunny
Race Distance: 20 laps


Race 2 (8/11/1992)
Weather: Overcast
Race Distance: 10 laps

Found this on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NXyvQWaqIM

From the commentary, this is the second heat, explaining why Peter Brock didn't finish! The smoking dayglo/yellow RS500 seen right at the end is the #50 Bryan Sala car.

Jesper

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

Jesper

I recollect it going to the dealer principal of President Ford, a Carter sponsor.
Graeme Hunt ? Dont remember him racing it, although he was into historic racing at the time.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

From what I know the new V8s were entered in a separate class. These were the classes for Bathurst, and presumable also for Sandown:

Class A: Group A, over 1600 cc
Class B: Group A, under 1600 cc
Class C: 1993 cars
Class E: Group E production cars

I also note that Murray Carter was driving a Group E Nissan Pulsar (Sunny for Europeans?), which made me wonder what happened to his RS500?

Jesper

The Production cars were only eligible for Sandown, the promoter included them to bolster the grid for the 500 (as he did again in 1993 and i think 1994 too)

As mentioned yes the '93-spec V8s were in a class of their own. Three appeared at Sandown (2xHRT Commodore's & Seton's Falcon), four at Bathurst (Brock) and five at Adelaide (Johnson)

[DV_08]

Just uploaded Rounds 2 and 3 of the Amscar series. Probably the best Group A Amscar races that I've seen. The Nissans, BMWs and Holdens were all competitive
Round 2 Race 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owMXViKef4Y
Round 2 Race 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIv_vQlPFuQ
Round 3 Race 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UZtK-DQyVk
Round 3 Race 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2UkY4vlvMk

[Jesper OH]

To DV_08: A big WOW and thank you for the up-load and links! I've just seen the round 2 first heat and it was quite a battle royale for second to fifth all the way. Eight cars on any grid could and would sound as a downer, but look for yourself..

Jesper

[DV_08]

No worries, I've come across some good group A action recently, so I will gradually upload them. I've had a lot of people subscribing to my channel recently so I take it people are enjoying it.

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by DV_08

No worries, I've come across some good group A action recently, so I will gradually upload them. I've had a lot of people subscribing to my channel recently so I take it people are enjoying it.

A BIG thanks from me too- I have never seen these races before!
Keep them coming please - Subscribed

[formerf1champ]

Taking into account this season was another year Gibson Motorsport dominated, I also thought it was a good season follow. I wasn't sure about about going from a single, hour long, race to two half hour races, but in the end, I thought it was the best format to use (when it went to 3-20 min races I thought it was a bit much though). I think because we knew it was the last GrpA season, you just let go of whatever you didn't like about the class and enjoy whatever happenend more (if you know what I mean).

Interesting to note Richards didn't win a heat this season. Had GrpA not already been finished in Europe, instead of piling on the weight, wouldn't it have been easier to ban 4WD from the rules? That's if you think the GTR should've been allowed in the first place!

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

ARDC AMSCAR Series
Round 3 (23/8/1992)

Circuit Length: 1.946 km
Weather: Sunny

Heat 1
Race Distance: 10 laps


Heat 2
Race Distance: 10 laps

Did any other cars run at this meeting? The Mal Rea Corolla Sprinter passed scrutineering.

[flappa]

Does anyone have any further information on the parity rule changes and freedoms that were applied for 1992?

[Holden308]

Originally Posted by flappa

Does anyone have any further information on the parity rule changes and freedoms that were applied for 1992?

From memory:

* The Sierra's and Commodore's were restricted to a maximum of 7,500 rpm. I think (not 100% sure) their weight remained the same as 1991. For the Holden brigade it meant a lot less engines were lost as they weren't being revved into oblivion, though being a heavy 4-door family car they still chewed tyres in the sprint races. For the Sierra's this was actually a god send. Dick Johnson claimed that it meant they could tune the engines more for torque than horsepower and both he and John Bowe claimed it made the cars far more drivable than before. They actually proved even quicker than before with Bowe setting a number of lap records in his Shell Sierra during the ATCC, though with their skinny rear tyres they also had trouble making tyres last.

* The BMW M3 Evo had an extra 20 or 40kg of weight added. Neither Frank Gardner or Tony Longhurst were happy about it, but lived with it (more than they would the rev-limiter in 1993). The Bimmer's were still tough to beat at tracks like Amaroo and Lakeside, and Tony even managed to get his into the top 10 shootout at Bathurst (though he admitted to getting a tow from Perkins which helped)

Then there were the GT-R's.........

After their domination of 1991, CAMS imposed an extra 50kg of weight to the cars, bringing them up to 1400kg. At the Winfield Triple Challenge at Eastern Creek before the ATCC, they were slower than the Shell and Peter Jackson Sierra's in qualifying, but they had the measure of the Shell cars in the races (Glenn Seton cleaned up and won both races). When talking to Darrell Eastlake and Alan Jones on racecam during the first race at EC, Jim Richards had a not so subtle dig at CAMS for making the cars so slow.....though not surprisingly AJ didn't show much sympathy lol.

Then after the Winton round of the ATCC after the Nissan's had again proved the cars to beat, CAMS added another 100kg which brought them up to 1500. This was before the Lakeside round of the series where neither Skaife nor Richards could crack the top 10 in qualifying and accusations of sandbagging were flying thick and fast (they proved they were still quick enough in the races though with Jim finishing the round in 2nd and Mark in 5th).....and Bob Forbes was told to leave his GIO GT-R at home and instead bring their VN Commodore for Mark Gibbs to race. CAMS also mandated the use of pop-off valves for the cars (the same FIA units used in F1 in 1987 and 1988). This allegedly brought them down from about 630+ hp in 1991 to 450 hp in 1992. Yeah, right.

The weight I'm not disputing. The power figures I am because Fred Gibson himself has admitted to it being fudged. CAMS actually had no idea how to work the pop-off valves and Fred, being the nice guy that he is, kindly offered to show them how they worked, he even had his team build a rig to test that they were working properly. What he didn't tell CAMS though was that he had the team set the rig to show exactly what CAMS wanted to see. So, as far as CAMS knew the GT-R's only had 450 hp on tap in 1992. Some very gullible people at CAMS......

Come Bathurst, IMO the GT-R's had at least 600 hp to play with. How else does that explain how Skaife topped the times in official qualifying with a 2:13.8 lap that was only one second slower than his 1991 pre-shootout time? And he did this in a car that weighed 150 kg more and supposedly had around 180 hp less. Even allowing for the cars 4WD advantage, there is no way they should have lapped Mt Panorama as quick as they did in the specification the car allegedly had. Maybe laps in the 2:16's, but not 2:13's.

Also, early in the ATCC when they 'only' had 450 hp and 1400 kg, the Nissan's were blown off by the Sierra's and faster Commodore's on the straights at Sandown and Symmons Plains. Yet at Bathurst with an extra 100 kg added to the cars and the horsepower figure still saying 450, the Commodore's presented no problems, and the cars were able to hold or even beat Dick's Sierra on both Mountain and Conrod Straight's.

CAMS were hookwinked, simple as that.

[Alex E]

Slightly off topic but I am hoping to find a home for a few parts I received in a consignment of stuff from Asia. I suspect they are from a small class Japanese Gp A car but not sure. I thought maybe some of you Aussies might be able to help....alex.

[ART Racing]

Dragging up an old thread here - I am looking for information on the Group A participation at Indy 1992 on the Gold Coast. Until a couple of days ago I was unaware that one of my cars - the ex Willmington Supra - was at the carnival March 21/22. It isn't in the log book, and I don't seem to have anything in any of my references that discuss it. I guess being a 'support category' to the main race it doesn't rate a separate mention. Does anyone have the results?

John

[DAVID PATERSON]

I believe that event wasn't held under a CAMS permit and that would explain the absence of a log book mention. Also, there were no Touring Car races on the program, but there was a class that more or less approximated Sports Sedan/GT.

[ART Racing]

Thanks Dave, was wondering whether that was the case noting the parked car looks like a Mazda RX-7 Sports Sedan (Dick ??? on the windscreen banner).