Time for a World championship?

[zac510]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

WTCC has full factory teams, runing real touring cars, and they arent as expensive as LMPs and GTs !

Disregard the car cost: WTCC survives even though they ship cars all over the world, have international sponsorship deals, international TV deals, manufacturer support, etc. No reason why sportscars shouldn't have that too!

[ger80]

Originally Posted by Asa

I think a world championship which takes in the best events without doing away with the ALMS, LMS and Asian LMS will be interesting.

It does not mean the ALMS, LMS and Asian LMS will go away. It is just that Audi, Peugeot and whoever else can compete for the title of world champion at some of the biggest endurance events worldwide.

E.g.
round 1 Sebring 12 hrs
round 2 Monza 1000 km
round 3 Le Mans 24 hrs
round 4 Silverstone 1000 km
round 5 Petit Le Mans
round 6 Mil Milhas Brazil
round 7 Shanghai 1000km
round 8 Adelaide 1000km

Sorry, but a Sportscar World Championship without Spa? Thats not worth the title ...

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

Spa 24 Hours or 1000K ?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

But the current system works pretty well.

As compared to WHAT?

So you are telling countries that want a race that teams- might - make an extra effort to attend to win a "World Championship" to bend over and kiss french buttocks?

That would make the chance of more races, somewhere between zero and none, but greatly increase the chance of fewer races as there would be NO reason, to have one.

When there was a "World Champioship" so loooong ago, it was at, mostly at, the bestest, most demandingestest fasterest tracks each country had.
To win it proved something.

The chance for a real one, of any sort, are near zero, but it would be nice.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by ger80

Sorry, but a Sportscar World Championship without Spa? Thats not worth the title ...

Ditto- Nurburgring.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Ditto- Nurburgring.

The real one, I supposse, not that neutered Tielke-Drome...

[marcosgt]

Where's Brands Hatch?

I'd say NO to a World Championship for one simple reason - It'll get killed by Bernie and Max same as Group C and the GT1 series did.

Sebring was amazing as was Le Mans last year, but a World Series wouldn't last 2 or 3 years before it was killed off and it would leave sportscar racing in disarray again.

M

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

a full field of 45 cars on the Indy version @ Brands Hatch

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by marcosgt

Where's Brands Hatch?

I'd say NO to a World Championship for one simple reason - It'll get killed by Bernie and Max same as Group C and the GT1 series did.

Sebring was amazing as was Le Mans last year, but a World Series wouldn't last 2 or 3 years before it was killed off and it would leave sportscar racing in disarray again.

M

Again? This is not disarray?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by marcosgt

I'd say NO to a World Championship for one simple reason - It'll get killed by Bernie and Max same as Group C and the GT1 series did.

Sebring was amazing as was Le Mans last year, but a World Series wouldn't last 2 or 3 years before it was killed off and it would leave sportscar racing in disarray again.

In those days, FIA had the control of both championships and their influence was very strong. Now, Le Mans, LMs or ALMS don´t depend of FIA to exist. The only problem, is that FIA is the only entity that can´t give "World Championship" status to a championship, so, "World Championship" or (like the americans love) "World Series"?

[LeMans.pt]

The question is always the same one: money. The Problem is that many of the opinions have as starting point the actual state of the championships, and not what would have to be made to a "World Championship" have success. The LMS, clearly, in marketing terms does not serve as an example for nothing, and to have this as model would be half way to an quick and painful end.

It's necessary to remember, that Formula One was not always as it is nowadays, and it had had to start from somewhere. Eclestone can have immense defects, but it is evident that it was from his head that came the ideas for turned F1 in was she is today in financial an mediatic terms. Also it is evident that some of these ideas began with destruction of Group C and the old WSC in order to move the makes from there to F1.

IMO, I think that it is possible to carry through a world-wide championship, but, limited only to class LMP1. The remaining classes, predominantly (or preferentially) based in private teams, do not have the necessary ways for an adventure in this scale, at least initially, even if we could consider that in the GT1, Corvette and Aston Martin would have conditions for such. On schedule matters, 5 rounds would be enough. Ideally, rounds in Europe, America and Asia would have to exist, but currently (we don't know what kind of atration will have the Asian LMS) it would be safest to keep an hypothetical "World Series" both in America and Europe. The choice must have in account the ones that already exist and the ones that traditionally attracts the main LMP1 teams. 24 Hours of Le Mans, obviously, 12 Hours of Sebring and Petit Le Mans, that usually attract teams from europe, must have a place. Thus we have 3 rounds, lack two…

The fourth one, it would be 1000km of Spa, having in account that is before Le Mans and all the logistics would de already in the Europe, before the main event. It lacks one… Europe? Probably it would not please the North Americans. America? It would not leave the Europeans very (the wide majority of independent LMP1 teams) happy. It remains Asia, but, if you think that we have America (Sebring), Europe (Spa), Europe (Le Mans), Asia () e later America (Petit Le MAns), would it be bearable financially to dislocate all the teams from Europe to Asia and later for America?

LMS and ALMS would carry on in the same way as always... and those round would have LMS or ALMS running along with the LMP1 World Series. Out of those races, LMP1 teams would chose if they want to run on ALMS or LMS, or even in none of them.

Ideally, and having in account the 2009 calendars:
21 March: 12 Hours of Sebring
10 May: 1000Km of Spa
13-14 June: 24 Hours of Le Mans
somewhere in August: 1000km of Shangai (or equivalent in Japan)
26 September: Petit Le Mans

Transport of material and people, as well as accommodations, would have to be in charge of the organization as in F1, and this implies that there has to be sponsors that pay to this. They do not exist? They exist clearly, with crisis or without it, what do not exist (probably in ACO) is responsible people, professional people, that can create a structure that supports a "World Series" or "World Championship". And this is the most important factor. With no series sponsors, with no marketing people selling the concept (just see what they do, and very well, in the ALMS) there will never be such a dream. We don´t have to invent northing new... just pick up what is done successfully in other championships and pot on practice in endurance. And, most important, never try in the first attempt, to steal Formula One position in motorsports.

For the rest of the classes, regional championships (ALMS and ALMS being North American Championship and European Championship) and an special prize in Le Mans (not an world title, but something meaningful).

Nothing is impossible to be done if people put their hand to work!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Again? This is not disarray?

This year will see the best Le Mans and European sportscar entry since 1989.

[old man]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

In those days, FIA had the control of both championships and their influence was very strong. Now, Le Mans, LMs or ALMS don´t depend of FIA to exist.

Surely this is not true; their races, circuits, regulations, and so on have to be approved by the FIA otherwise competing drivers and teams would lose their FIA licences for doing an event that does not have FIA Authorisation. This authorisation may be via a recognised National body affiliated (?) to the FIA such as the RAC or IMSA but FIA would still have influence would it not?

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by old man

Surely this is not true; their races, circuits, regulations, and so on have to be approved by the FIA otherwise competing drivers and teams would lose their FIA licences for doing an event that does not have FIA Authorisation. This authorisation may be via a recognised National body affiliated (?) to the FIA such as the RAC or IMSA but FIA would still have influence would it not?

Yes.... in a certain way! Regulations are not a responsibility of FIA on LMP matters, and even the GT1 and GT2 classes regulations are made between FIA and ACO reaching some consensus. Some FIA rules are to be respected (security for exemple) but FIA does not have power to say what way should Le Mans follow. And that didn´t happened with the WSC and the late 90's GT1. FIA does not have executive power on Le Mans.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

This year will see the best Le Mans and European sportscar entry since 1989.

Then don't burden these entrants with extra costs of travelling the world. As witnessed by the number of LM entrants from the ALMS, interest in North America for such a thing is minimal.

[PorscheFanNo1]

LeMans.pt:

As a start, why cant say FIA award World Championship points for those 5 races just as they are now? Without having to create a serie for it, let the races be run as now under LMS, ALMS and JLMS(?)? All 5 races are run with LMP1 cars, just give the top 10 LMP1 cars in each of those 5 races points that counts towards a World Cup or similar, given LMS have 2 races and ALMS 2 races and they dont clash, if a team wants more points they can go and race in the other serie as well. Would be like a bonus for the top LMP1 teams. If you see what I mean? Wasnt the Wolrd Sportscar Championship run this way in the late 70s? With selected races from national series together making a World serie.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

LeMans.pt:

As a start, why cant say FIA award World Championship points for those 5 races just as they are now? Without having to create a serie for it, let the races be run as now under LMS, ALMS and JLMS(?)? All 5 races are run with LMP1 cars, just give the top 10 LMP1 cars in each of those 5 races points that counts towards a World Cup or similar, given LMS have 2 races and ALMS 2 races and they dont clash, if a team wants more points they can go and race in the other serie as well. Would be like a bonus for the top LMP1 teams. If you see what I mean? Wasnt the Wolrd Sportscar Championship run this way in the late 70s? With selected races from national series together making a World serie.

Actually this was what I meant. Award world championship points in select big races and keep the ALMS, LMS and whatever else as they are.

I think we should not limit to LMP1, but award WC points to LMP2, GT1 and GT2 entries as well. If they want more points then they can enter more.

Maybe we can allow a few drop scores so more races will be eligible for WC points.

[Speed-King]

In the light of recent announcements this thread might deserve a *bump*.

[HORNDAWG]

With the current flux of the LMS calendar and hinted at possible inter-melding of it with the AsLMS it seems that prep for this is in full swing.






L.P.

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

With the current flux of the LMS calendar and hinted at possible inter-melding of it with the AsLMS it seems that prep for this is in full swing.
L.P.

It seams so, but probably with high costs... how many LMP2, GT1 and GT2, and even LMP1 teams will have the budget to race outside europe? For what we know, it doesn't looks like all the necessary logistics no move cars, material and team across the world will be paid by the organizers like in F1.

For a team like Quifel ASM Team maintain her LMP2 LMS Championship in 2010 will they have to go to Sebring, Abu Dhabi and Okayama (probably)? With what money? Not theirs for sure...

The main excuse to keep the European series with only 5 races was the fact that team could't affords more races, and know they want them to go world wide?? A World Series yes, but keep the an european championship like the ALMS. 8 races top... mixed durations (1000Km and less), and then, a best off with the bigger/traditional races in america, europe, and one of the new ones in asia.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Le Vieux

Audi won't be around for ever and I suspect Peugeot will disappear once they have won LM. That leaves, er, Aston Martin as the only volume manufacturer present and it's not exactly the best economic climate in which to attract manufacturers.....

Pug have confirmed that they are working on a 2011 car, as are Aston Martin. Audi are going to be as well. Toyota is likely to join in and Acura could return for 2011 once the economy has cleared up.

[re. Acura I suspect the programme is on some sort of unofficial hiatus at the minute, what with the engines being on lease programmes and Highcroft running the P1 car next year with support from Wirth Engineering, it could all get going again come 2011]

[deggis]

If it is really going to be called "Intercontinental Trophy" (like mentioned here, twice), then what a hugely prestigious name. *sarcasm*

The topic is what it is and people keep referring to "World Championship"... even in theory I highly doubt that name. International Sporting Code includes some requirements (such as races at least on three continents) that needs to be filled before FIA can authorize the use of "World" in the name. This series might actually fill those requirements but tbh I'm not so sure it would deserve that status... yet. Or possibly ever. Secondly this new GT1 World Championship...

World Series still includes the "World" word but in practice there must be big difference between "World Series" and "World Championship".

.

[NaBUru38]

First of all, we must find out what do teams and manufacturers want. How many races should this trophy have? And how long should they last? Then we can talk about specific circuits.

It's been rumoured in this forum that the 2010 trophy would have four races from September to December: Silverstone, Petit Le Mans and two Asian dates (Abu Dhabi, Japan?). Four races are hardly a "championship" or a "series", deggis, "trophy" or "cup" are better words. "Trophy" is unique and short, so it should stay. I'd choose "world" instead of "intercontinental", since it's shorter and can be nicknamed "il Mondiale" / "el Mundial" / "le Mondiale" in Romance languages (like mine :P). So my perfect name is Le Mans World Trophy.

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

24 Hours of Le Mans, obviously, 12 Hours of Sebring and Petit Le Mans, that usually attract teams from europe, must have a place.

Yes indeed. I'm not sure whether the 24 Hours of Le Mans will be in, though.

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

Spa 24 Hours or 1000K ?

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Ditto- Nurburgring.

Spa and Nürburgring's 24-hour races will never be in the trophy. Therefore, those circuits shouldn't be part of it. I prefer Silverstone and Monza, since they have a long tradition and high top speeds (just like La Sarthe). The old Hockenheim would have been great too, but not this new tilkodrome.

Until the France family quits bullying, ACO cars won't race at Daytona. No matter how much I'd love the Mil Milhas Brasil to be in the trophy, I don't expect it. About the Asian circuits, Suzuka is a must. China is a huge car market and factory, so Shanghai (the only Chinese track big enough for LMPs) will surely be around. Middle-Eastern circuits are all the same, so anyone can make it. However, Audi owner VAG owner Qatar might push for Losail. An Australian race would be great too.

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

The main excuse to keep the European series with only 5 races was the fact that team could't affords more races [...] keep a european championship like the ALMS. 8 races top... mixed durations (1000Km and less).

Exactly. The shorter the calendar, the longer can races last. A 13-round 1000km race season would be expensive and have low television ratings, but a few >6 hour races can comfortably make a trophy. If the ACO wants the Euro LMS to keep true endurance, then its calendar will never expand. If they do want more races, most of them must be shortened to say 4 hours or 600km.

[johntt]

What I think the LMS needs to do is think of it as around one race per month, excluding December and January.

February: Monza 1000km
March: Leave free for Sebring
April: Algarve 1000km
May: Spa 1000km
June: Leave free for LM
July: Scandinvia somewhere
August: Nurburgring 1000km
September: Silverstone 1000km
October: Leave free for Petit
November: 1000km Fuji and 1000km in Aus/NZ (I'm thinking Sandown with Aussie V8s)

[deggis]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Four races are hardly a "championship" or a "series", deggis, "trophy" or "cup" are better words.

In the link that I gave in my previous post Pierre Fillon says "We’ll start off gently and then up the pace the following year." Maybe that means the amount of races.

Four is only one race less than LMS has. First LM(E)S season (2004) actually had only four races.