Your top ten drivers from the 2005 Formula 1 season

[NO1SPECIAL]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Which says that Webber could have done better than he did!

Whether Webber could have done better than Webber? Of course he could - and so could all of the drivers. None of them were perfect.

OR

Whether Webber could have done better than Nick? Well, as I've been trying to point out, he did at least as well as him. Any "opportunities" Webber had were those he earned for himself - or did Webber routinely secrete bricks in Heidfeld's car during qualifying?

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

No driver has had more crashes this season than Webber

I'd love to see the stats on this.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

So you praise Webber for going for it, and criticise Fisichella for going for it? No driver has had more crashes this season than Webber, and while they haven't all been his fault, it does suggest that he needs to modify his approach if he is to acheive his potential. Also, Nick seems to have contributed a lot more behind the scenes in getting the car competitive.

Of this I really am getting tired - can you supply more than the one quote about how Nick is good at this stuff (which BTW doesn't suggest that Mark is no good at this as well)?

And who really cares how good they are at development - isn't that what testers are for? It's the job of a race driver to go fast - something Webber can undeniably do.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Originally Posted by Skam85

I'd love to see the stats on this.

Me too.

[Menelaos]

It's not at all about the media hype, NO1SPECIAL. It's pure expectation because he had shown he could be REALLY good last year. We were expecting he'd be really good and he wasn't. On the other hand, NH was very good. He was not MUCH better, but he didn't make as many mistakes and was much more consistent.

[Gt_R]

I'd name my top 5 drivers this season.

1=) Fernando Alonso
1=) Kimi Raikkonen

This two guys finally have the best cars on the grid, and they made good use of it the best they could. Alonso for being the youngest WDC and only made one serious error in the whole season, being fast, consistent and sensible.. the way a WDC should be. Kimi, for his poor luck, unreliable machinery, still put in 101% in races and that could be seen in his driving. A couple of mistakes on his part too. But these two guys are the ones to watch over the next 5-10 years.

2) Michael Schumacher
Well.. this guy just never gives up does he? Despite talks of him retiring, he shows us just why he is 7XWDC, and one of the greatest drivers ever. Put the under-performing Ferrari in places it shouldnt, scoring results that are above what the car is capable of in another driver's hands. 3rd in the WDC standing. Could have been 1= with Kimi and Alonso, but for some glaring mistakes that he shouldn't have made. But his determined and quality drives against the odds makes the day.

I'd think about the rest later... =) after i watch the DVDs again to relive the season..

[ASCII Man]

1. Fernando Alonso - One word, Perfect!

2. Kimi Räikkönen - Lightning fast, but sometimes inconsistant and also severely haunted by reliability problems that probably costed him the title.

3. Juan Pablo Montoya - A period of bad luck, brain fades and injury, only to come back with a vengeance and take 3 wins!

4. David Coulthard - Well, who could have known that DC would finally overcome his aerodynamic deficiency to get nice results in a midfield car and get himself a new refreshing image in the process as well? Good stuff!

5. Jarno Trulli - 2 second places, 1 third place and a pole, arguably on fumes but still nice. Overall a good season for Jarno, often put the car in places where it didn't really belong during qualifying, very close to his teammate race performance wise.

6. Ralf Schumacher - Consistantly fast with a couple of podiums and quite a number of points finishes to show for it.

7. Nick Heidfeld - Impressed me greatly, pummelling a guy who by some here seems to be seen as the next best thing since Senna/TGF...

8. Jenson Button - Smooth and fast, made short work of a woeful Takuma Sato...

9. Giancarlo Fisichella - After his win in Melbourne took a dive in terms of performance but redeemed himself somewhat towards the end of the season IMO.

10. Christian Klien - Crisp and clean season for Klien, 4 points finishes in all which doesn't sound like much but still overall he performed great, a lot better than Liuzzi could IMO.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by Skam85

I want to put my 2c in on this one as well.

Fisi was badly at fault in Malaysia. Webber had already passed him, and Fisi went and tried to take the place back which was stupid, because his tyres were shot. Heidfeld, like nearly every race, was just sitting back and waiting, and there you go, 3rd place, right in his lap. Same as in Monaco, got the lucky break, and there's 2nd place, right in his lap, when he was never seriously going to have a go at Webber for position the way Michael did on Rubens. Same at the Nurburgring, Kimi throws his car off the track, and there you go, 2nd place, right in his lap.

See where I am going? At least Webber is willing to have a go, whereas Heidfeld just seems to sit back and wait for people in front to drop out/make mistakes.

Right I'm sorry but Bulls**t. Was Nick sitting back when he overtook Alonso? Nurburbrings unfair, he was nowhere near to challenge the two in front of him anyway, how could he sit back and wait? he didn't have a chance to keep up.

This thread isn't about bloody Webber for gods sake, get back onto the topic, and I'm not directing this at just one person.

[Skam85]

Good to see you clarified that.

I don't put in my 2c much, and I certainly don't want to be put off putting it in....

[Minardi fan]

1. Raikkonen
= Alonso
3. Montoya
4. Coulthard
5. Fisichella
6. Klien
7. Trulli
8. Monteiro
9. Albers
10. Massa

[maximus]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Good to see you clarified that.

I don't put in my 2c much, and I certainly don't want to be put off putting it in....

I think I over-reacted actually but no I wasn't directing my last sentence at you. I just got a bit annoyed when I saw all these posts defending and making excuses for Webber in a thread that isn't really for this.

[maximus]

1. Alonso

The World Champion. Managed to consolidate his position even when his car wasn't as good as the Mclaren. Has drove superbly in the final two races and proved to some of his detractors he can race.

2. Kimi Raikkonen

Probably the quickest driver for most of the year, but has made some mistakes along the way and hasn't made the most of his car at times, but was very unlucky not to win more than 7 races.

3. David Coulthard

A man reborn this year, has been an inspiration for the team and has driven above his car at times (Nurburbring for example) he still needs to sort out his qualifiying though.
4. Montoya

A poor unfortunate start and has made some silly mistakes this year, but at times he has been unbelievably quick, faster than Kimi. I think next year his battle between the two will be entertaining.

5. Micheal Schumacer

This year has been a hard one for him, with the car and tyres being a dog and MS making some silly mistakes at times too. But some races year have shown just how good he is and how he can still rise above his car (Hungary and Imola) and I hope we have a close battle between Ferrari, Mclaren and Renault next year!

6. Nick Hieldfeld

Has shown Webber the way at times this year and has produced some great performances such as Monaco and Nurburbring. I wonder if he will have such a strong season at BMW next year?

7. Giancarlo Fisichella

Good lucky win at Austrailia at the beginning, but seems to have lost his head and his way at times this year. He still has produced some good race and qualifiying performances this year, but he needs to keep his head up and not cower to pressure so often.
8. Jenson Button

Difficult year for him this year, with the frankly stupid and reputation damaging contract wrangles, which he shouldn't have got himself involved with in the first place. he has driven well this year (Spa springs to mind) and he managed to finish in the points in every race from France onwards, which is a strong performance. He also categorically destroyed Sato this year. (although so he should have really)

9. Mark Webber

Good first race, but he has got himself involved in a few silly incidents and made some comments that were a bit unwelcome and unnecessary and turned people off him. He has had some great drives though (Monaco, Suzuka and China) and I would like to see him carry this momentum into next year.

10. Tiago Montiero

Rookie of the year, his drive in Spa was excellent and hes been comfortably ahead of Narain for most of the year. He deserves his place in F1 next year if just as a test driver.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Originally Posted by maximus

I think I over-reacted actually but no I wasn't directing my last sentence at you. I just got a bit annoyed when I saw all these posts defending and making excuses for Webber in a thread that isn't really for this.

Well clearly you were directing it at me - the one "defending and making excuses" for him - but, tellingly, not at those critical of him.

However, I suppose you're right, this is probably not the thread for this - it belongs in yet another "Webber is a bum" thread of its own.

[Hazard]

Mine are:
1. Alonso - Best performance, drove like he'd already won the thing 6 times already
2. Klien - In terms of machinery, shocking jump in skill by just race one - by the end of the year he was regularly outperforming DC
3. Heidfeld - Again, a last minute replacement in a way, outperforming his highly touted team mate far more often than expected in clearly inept machinery
4. Raikkonen - Silly 'breaks in the ice' lost him his title, but the king of the dominant drives on occassion.
5. Fisichella - A strong back-up
6. Coulthard - Impressive season from a man looking like he was on his way out, overall attitude change aswell has helped him - this is the first time he's been a midfielder after all.
7. Montoya - Kimi's fall guy - fell too often (particularly off quad bikes) - only strong late season
8. de la Rosa - The fastest man on most Friday's, and a great racer when he had his shout
9. Ralf Schumacher - Amazingly strong in the last part of the season, too weak at the beginning though.
10. Jarno Trulli - Amazing strong in the FIRST part of the season, dropped off at the end to damage Toyota's 3rd place chances

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

1. Alonso - Aside from the brain fart in Montreal he's been perfect all year.
2. M. Schumacher - Despite the Ferrari being an underpowered, under rubbered dog this year he still finishes third in the Championship. To have a bad season and still finish in the top three deserved some kudos in my book.
3. Raikkonen - Fastest guy on track but lacking the mental consistency of Alonso.
4. R. Schumacher - Hasn't grabbed the headlines like Trulli but he's scored points in all but four races. An impressive tally.
5. Coulthard - I think he cemented his status as the best value driver on the grid this season, missed out on a couple of podiums through no real fault of his own and rung every last tenth out of the car. Striling stuff.
6. Klien - Most improved driver of the year. With an axe over his head from day 1 he managed to put in the season of his life. Red Bull would be insane to replace him now.
7. Montoya - on pace alone he deserves to be higher (on an equal day I'd rate him above Kimi) but this season he's let himself down far to many times.
8. Heidfeld - proved his reputation isn't a myth. *cough*Fisichella*cough*
9. Webber - an on/off season for Webber but he got that elusive podium (at Monaco no less) and finally found his feet towards the end of the year.
10. de la Rosa - I'll admit this is a strange choice, but he stepped up and delivered a hugely entertaining performance when called upon in Bahrain

[Heebeegeetee]

The trouble with motor racing is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to seperate the driver from the car he's in. How do we know that Schumi is different from last year? How would FA or Kimi fare in this years Ferrari? The answer is we simply don't know.

However, all things considered, and taking into account the equipment at their disposal, I would rate Fernando as 1st.

For me, Kimi has made far too many errors for a guy purporting to be a top world class driver, far too many mistakes. So, in second place, I'd have to think long and hard to seperate Michael from DC. I reckon I'd place Michael 2nd 'cos of his record, DC third 'cos I think he's done a terrific job with the equipment and facilities at his disposal. Then Kimi, then perhaps Montoya.

After that, its all much of a muchness, and I can see little point in trying to seperate a bunch of guys who really and truly, haven't done a good job.

I'm sure someone may be able to change my mind, but really, all the rest have underperformed, in my view.

[Kicking-back]

Heebeegeetee - I've noticed throughout many of your posts you don't rate Kimi - but he's made no more errors season than either DC or Michael Schumacher who you rate above him.

Since McLaren's sluggish start he's had to give 100% all the time for the rest of the season, which surely makes the odd over-the-limit incident more likely.

In terms of crashing out of a race, he's only done that once this year (Nurburgring) - just like Alonso (Montreal)

[enemy-ace]

1. Raikkonen
2. Alonso
3. M.Schumacher
4. Coulthard
5. Heidfeld
6. Montoya
7. Button
8. Fisichella
9. Webber
10. Massa

[Marbot]

1.Alonso
2.Raikonnen
3.Schumacher.M
4.Montoya
5.Button
6.Coulthard
7.Klien
8.Heidfelt
9.Webber
10.Albers

[touringlegend]

1 - Kimi Raikkonen. Was simply awesome when the car was there for him
2 - Fernando Alonso. Didn't have outright pace of Kimi usually, but showed maturity in his driving to always end up picking up points on a bad day.
3 - Juan Pablo Montoya. I believe he's been underated sometimes - keeping up with Kimi or being faster sometimes aint no easy task.
4 - David Coulthard. This time last year who'd have guessed the year he'd have. Some pretty strong performances when a lot of people were questioning his decision to stay on in F1.
5 - Giancarlo Fisichella. He started off well but he was always talked up to be the 2nd best driver after Schumacher. Dissapointing, he could have done much better.
6 - Christian Klien. Definitely improved in his 2nd year in F1 and swapping with Liuzzi for some races can't have been easy.
7 - Michael Schumacher. Nothing went his way this year, and it's a bit flattering of him and the car to list themselves winner of 1 Grand Prix.
8 - Tiago Monteiro. Solid drives and kept out of the trouble for a good part of the year.
9 - Jarno Trulli. His qually performances were always pretty damn good, but then the races always dissapointed.
10 - Ralf Schumacher. Few good performances this year, there to pick up points for Toyota.

[Super Tourer]

If I can add to the Webber debate, a lot of which is old ground. I think that Mark has learnt a lot this year. Coming into the season there was a certain amount of expectation/hype - call it what you will - but he was a driver that had never previously run at the front in F1 and only had a 5th place finish to his name.

What we have seen this season is the performance from somebody with those credentials - learning to run at the front, learning how to pass the Fizzi's, Button's, Barrichello's of F1 - in other words this has been very much a learning season for Mark.

I think we saw some of the fruits of it today. The Webber of early season would have lunged at Massa and risk taking either or both of them off, yet we didn't see that - we saw a driver who tried hard but still made a points finish.

I'll admit I am not great fan of Webber, perhaps that is clouded by how many times we have had to hear about the great things he would achieve this year, despite the lack of an obvious cv to breed such expectation. Maybe his supporters have expected him to run before he can walk, that is my take on it.

I predict he could well be the most improved driver of 2006, with the experience (good and bad) he has garnered this season.

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by Bellof

all buts and ifs apart, it shows he achieved more in lesser equipment.

Yeah, but that's not just "buts and ifs". MS had three races more than JPM.

[Menelaos]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

2 - Fernando Alonso. Didn't have outright pace of Kimi usually

Ah, but he probably would (or at least he'd be close to it) if he had some reason to push it. Alonso's quote today "we showed that if we want to risk to beat McLaren we can do it" was utterly stupid though. Being able to do this today doesn't mean they could've done it everytime...

[touringlegend]

Well they didn't do it everytime.

He could have been tellling the truth. I thought it a pretty clever comment - just letting people know Renault are good when their backs against the wall.

[Trev Campbell]

I have taken into consideration the car at the drivers disposal.

1 - Kimi Raikkonen. The fastest driver this year only let down by poor reliablity of his car
2 - Fernando Alonso. Fast and Consistent, Had the speed an reliablity at the start of the year and then the maturity to hang on towards the end of the season.
3 - Michael Schumacher. Considering their past results a dismal year but Schumacher still pushed his car to the limit when there was little chance of a result and dragged the car up the grid.
4 - Juan Pablo Montoya. Not a bad year but is seems to eratic to be a WDC, shows glimpses of amazing speed, punctuated with silly mistakes and offs..
5 - David Coulthard. One of the drivers of the year, consistently drove a mid pack car to good results
6 - Mark Webber. Showed plenty of pace in qualifying, but made silly mistakes in the first half of the year. Second half of the year was solid and mistake free.
7 - Jarno Trulli. His qualifying performances were very good with fair race performance, but once again his second half of the year was poor.
8 - Ralf Schumacher. Pretty much the exact oposite of Trulli, Very average 1st half of the year with a very solid second half, a better racer than qualifier.
9 - Christian Klien. Very good year deserved his spot over Luizzi with some very strong performances, improver of the year.
10 - Giancarlo Fisichella. I know he is very low but I can't help but compare what he achieved to Alonso in the same car. Basically gifted a win in Australia, then had bad luck, errors and poor reliablity and then his year fell apart after that. Japan still sticks in my mind as the ulimate poor performance.