Group C 1991-1992 unborn, unraced sportscar projects

[The359]

Here's some pics of the Gebhardt in IMSA. It reminds me a lot of the Ferrari 333 SP, but with a roof.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-05-030.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-05-mw1.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-05-mw2.jpg

And what I presume is the same car in Group C in 1992.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-04-26-025.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-10-025.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-10-jj4.jpg

Looks like they had problems with the doors?

[zac510]

Originally Posted by The359

The Alfa Romeo was in an exhibition of Italian cars in Torino last year.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39749410@N00/2428523521/

That's an extremely effective way of getting the 'corporate nose' that all of the manufacturers covet so much these days, but without ruining the overall shape, aesthetics or aerodynamics of the car!

[yuragagarin1961]

The Imsa Momo and WSC Gebhardt are the same car -the same tub, even- but with different engines, Audi 5 cyl Turbo and Cosworth DFZ, if I am not wrong. I'd say it would get a sharper nose later on and that now it is usually entered in Historic Sportcars series.

What's the connection of the Japanese HKS F1 specs engine with Mitsubishi??

Here's a video of the engine at the back of a F3000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3s8NSY06SA

And the Brun C90

[Just-Right]

I would like to add the '92 LOLA T92/10. It is designed by the Dutch Wiet Huidekoper.







As an addition the amazing Mazda RX 792p.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by yuragagarin1961

What's the connection of the Japanese HKS F1 specs engine with Mitsubishi??

Mitsubishi had commissioned HKS to develop an F1 engine. But the engine ended up being well over weight and the F1 project was eventually shelved. Mitsubishi gave HKS the green light to shop the engine around for other applications and it rose to the fore with the potential of slotting it into a Lola T92/10 for Andy Evans to run in GTP. Michael Gue was the person attempting to broker the deal having contacts at both HKS and Lola.

[Thundersports]

I thought the Lola T92/10 ran in period in the WSC or am I being forgetful? Saw it a few times in the proper Interserie championship.

[yuragagarin1961]

Thank you.

Any clue which team in F1 could have received the Mitsubishi badged HKS unit, if ever they at Mitsubishi attempted any conversations with anyone?

Peugeot had ready the 905E2, Mercedes, the C292. What about Tom's Toyota?

And does anybody know if TWR-Jaguar had any plans beyond the XJR14, at least an evolution of it -or was it the Mazda MXR01, such slight evolution of the XJR14-? What about Lola, was any serious evolution of the T92/10 anytime planned?

[templer]

Hello group c fans.


I have been in contact with John Thompson about his 1992 group car project.
He did the design by his own and build himself a windtunnel model. The first tests were very encouraging. He was in contact with an engineer at kremer racing for building and racing the car. But the man left kremer and joined Peugeot and so the project died. Sadly John didn't have any pictures cause he had thrown all older things away then T.C. prototypes closed the doors.
As the model fearuted a tyrell 019 style raised nose with a seperate front wing John tought the Peugeot 905 Evo 2 was influenced by his work.

I don't know any plans for further development work for the Jaguar XJR-14 or the Lola T92/10.
Interestinly Nigel Stroud told my all work for the use of the Judd V10 in the Mazda MXR-01 was done by TWR and not by Mazda.

For the Mercedes C292 I hope to get some in deep informations from the designer Leo Ress during the next weeks.

Regards

Markus

[yuragagarin1961]

So, our only hope of getting any knowledge of the late Thomsom sportscar is trying to find the 1991 or 1992 Autosport issue in which the image of the scale model might have appeared?

The story behind that Templer tells is very interesting, and would be very interesting too to hear about the story behind the TC Prototypes product for Konrad Motorsport, the KM011 Lamborghini, which preceded his 'revolutionary' later design.

[The359]

The Mussato MXJ is another car that could be added to the list.

[yuragagarin1961]

Any more infos regarding the Mussato? Which engine would it have used, who was the engineer behind the project...?

Also, wasn't there a project by Alba for a AR20 with Subaru-Motori Moderni flat 12??

The car in the image was having some other engine, don't know exactly which.

[templer]

The Alba was fitted with the 3,5l B12 Subaru eingine for the first races of 1990. The idea was to have a car which complied to the 1991 rules with 3,5 l atmospheric engines. But the team had a lot of problems with the engines and switched during the season to an Buick engine.

Regards

Markus

[KA]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

I thought the Lola T92/10 ran in period in the WSC or am I being forgetful? Saw it a few times in the proper Interserie championship.

Yes, two cars for most of the '92 season from Euroracing- Charles Zwolsmann joined variously by Stefan Johansson, Cor Euser, Jesus Pareja, Heinz-Harald Frentzen amongst others.

One car was car was later converted to an open-top spec for the early years of the ISRS/FIASCC 1998-ish, run by McNeill for Robbie Stirling and Chris Hodgetts etc as a McNeill-Lola
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-07-19-015.jpg

[templer]

Does anybody have some informations about the Alfa Romeo SE048. Especially who were the designers and which persons worked at the Abarth stuff.

The car looked really great though a little bit old-fashioned with it's normal two element rear wing compared to Peugeot or Jaguar.

Regards

Markus

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Yes, two cars for most of the '92 season from Euroracing- Charles Zwolsmann joined variously by Stefan Johansson, Cor Euser, Jesus Pareja, Heinz-Harald Frentzen amongst others.

Wasn't there some story that Frentzen was absolutely mega in the rain at night during the '92 or '93 Le Mans?

[yuragagarin1961]

Chasis for the SE048 would have been developed by Giuseppe Petrotta, coming to Abarth from Osella and years later responsable for the FX Ferrari Enzo. The car's development would have been halted in September 1990, which might explain the dated rear wing.

[The359]

Some lists have a Judd for the Mussato, others have a Ford Cosworth.

[KA]

Originally Posted by templer

I don't know any plans for further development work for the Jaguar XJR-14 or the Lola T92/10.
Interestinly Nigel Stroud told my all work for the use of the Judd V10 in the Mazda MXR-01 was done by TWR and not by Mazda.

Just a thought- had the 1992 Alan Randall Jaguar deal actually hapened, I wonder if TWR would have done any development of the chassis, or whether development would have been left frozen at late-91 spec?
Would have been interesting to have seen the same chassis being raced against each other in both 'Jaguar' (Ford HB) and 'Mazda' (Judd V10) forms as well....

[KA]

Originally Posted by JAG

Another car was the Jaguar XJR-17, an IMSA Lights car with a 3.0 V6 (based on the XJR-10/11/16 turbo motor). It was a parts bin special converted XJR-16, and has since been converted back to XJR-16 spec.

.

http://wikicars.org/en/Image:1757752.jpg
http://jaguarracing.xf.cz/wp-content/xjr-17.jpg
http://jaguarracing.xf.cz/wp-content/xjr-17_1.jpg


Didn't the '17 feature as part of the abortive Alan Randall Jaguar entry for 1992- As I remember it was 2 XJR14s and 2 XJR17s for the secondary 'FIA Cup' category? After the Randall deal fell through, I seem to remember there being a possibility of one being raced by Swiss privateer Georg Paolin, who started the season with an Argo but disappeared from the championship early in the season.

The 17 did run in some of the early Historic Group C races a few years back

[yuragagarin1961]

Anybody could possibly know something about the aborted projects by Cheetah or ALD?

Thank you.

[AMICALEMANS]

What aborted project abvout ALD ?

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Wasn't there some story that Frentzen was absolutely mega in the rain at night during the '92 or '93 Le Mans?

Yes, it was 1992. The cars ended up filthy at the flag.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-06-21-004.jpg

I am amazed how much the Nissan P35 ended up looking like the Toyota TSO10

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-06-21-033.jpg

[Geva-Nelson]

Originally Posted by KA

Yes, two cars for most of the '92 season from Euroracing- Charles Zwolsmann joined variously by Stefan Johansson, Cor Euser, Jesus Pareja, Heinz-Harald Frentzen amongst others.

One car was car was later converted to an open-top spec for the early years of the ISRS/FIASCC 1998-ish, run by McNeill for Robbie Stirling and Chris Hodgetts etc as a McNeill-Lola
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-07-19-015.jpg

And this car surely formed the basis of the Ascari LMP programme

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-08-06-017.jpg

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Geva-Nelson

And this car surely formed the basis of the Ascari LMP programme

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-08-06-017.jpg

The Ascari's always got me. To my eyes very well proportioned and having modern and classic touches to them.

The Lola was always lovely too.

robt

[Derwent Motorsp]

Did the Allard race and what was the link to the original marque?