[BTCC] Jason Plato such a sore loser!

[nickyf1]

Why do people think any contact in the BTCC is intentional?

How do you know?! How can you be sure, especially at a corner like Duffus Dip, where the track falls away like that?

An unavoidable racing incident in my eyes.

[KA]

Originally Posted by trebor901

I also think Chevrolet are slightly to blame with the whole non turbo car this year as they had the oppertunity to develop a turbo engine and if they had im pretty sure that Plato would be very close to the top of it by now.

Was it a case of RML focusing too much on the WTCC's new engine regs this year or is it just a matter of they thought that they would be competitive against the turbo powered machines.

I suspect a bit of both; RML's main focus was always going to be the WTCC engine- that's their main programme for Chevrolet- and developing two different engines over the winter was probably a big ask, especially if Chevrolet aren't putting much money into the BTCC programme.
If TOCA told them that there would be parity between the S2000 cars and the NGTC & NGTC-engined S2000 cars, then they had every reason (in theory at least) to believe it.
If they hadn't believed they could compete against the turbo cars, then I suspect we might not have seen RML, Chevy and Plato in the BTCC this year...

To be honest, attempting to get parity between cars built to two different rulebooks, and a hybrid of the two (plus a third rulebook when you take into account Lea Wood's Integra) was probably never going to work...

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

An unavoidable racing incident in my eyes.

There is no such thing. Any "racing incident" is avoidable.

[nickyf1]

When two people are fighting for position, there are many different variables, and today we saw a Chevrolet being spat off the track, unfortunately.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

There is no such thing. Any "racing incident" is avoidable.

Very true. The art of motor racing requires drivers to drive around their opponents, not trough them. In this case it was just a mindless move from Boardman. And I can very much understand Plato's frustration, not a sore loser but a frustrated sportsman. And right he is.

[brands]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Why do people think any contact in the BTCC is intentional?

Seriously ?? Have you never heard of 'nerf to pass' in BTCC, all the 'leading' drivers resort to it.


Plato was moaning about the turbo cars and not about being taken out on the interview I saw. It seems that despite being the best driver, in the best team, with the world's best touring car (his words) he can't compete against the nasty turbo cars.

[safc_fan89]

If Plato and RML were made a promise that turbo and normally aspirated engines would be equilibrated, then he has every right to complain. The championship has done a terrible job at balancing the performance. Worst thing is this was entirely predictable; trying to equalise performance never works.

I think you would also have to be incredibly blinkered if you think the sort of contact we see all the time in BTCC is unintentional and unavoidable. Funnily enough the drivers in other series manage. And the worrying thing is that a lot of people seem to like it BECAUSE of the collisions. That's not a gimmick but plain bad driving. I'd rather have the gimmicks and clean racing.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

I think you would also have to be incredibly blinkered if you think the sort of contact we see all the time in BTCC is unintentional and unavoidable. Funnily enough the drivers in other series manage. And the worrying thing is that a lot of people seem to like it BECAUSE of the collisions. That's not a gimmick but plain bad driving. I'd rather have the gimmicks and clean racing.

Equally, I think you have to be incredibly blinkered if you think contact in BTCC happens "all the time" and that most the drivers use contact to pass. Take your rose tinted spectacles off and watch the races again. Most the racing that was going on was clean and fair, and despite the pro-ban a driver that uses contact in the BTCC attitude most seem to hold here, the moments that end up in incidents are only a small minority of the overall racing.

BTCC has had a reputation of being slightly rough-and-tumble type racing for years. I don't think what is happening now is bad and I don't buy the suggestion that driving standards have got worse. Most incidents I'd say were racing incidents, plain and simple.

[medius]

I don't agree that Boardman deliberately decided to put Plato into the tyres. I think he caught him a lot quicker than he expected on the straight (the first tap), and again he caught him right on the apex a lot quicker than he expected (the second tap).

The speeds done at that point of the track, the kerbs making the cars tip on two wheels, the reletively short runoff area and hard tyre wall all combined to make it look like a spectacular accident, but I don't believe for a second that Boardman drove down the straight with the thought in his head ''I'm gonna put you in the wall, Plato!''.

[garcon]

Well, he's either a deliberate dangerous driver or a rank amateur.

[crmalcolm]

Plato's reaction seems to be all about the frustration of not being able to compete, and not about the accident itself.

He is clearly frustrated at the moment, and having found himself fortunate to be leading, his luck ran out in an abrupt fashion.

With regards to Boardman's 'deliberate' contact, I take it Jackson is also a rank amateur when he was caught out by closing speed?
From what I can tell so far experienced drivers/commentators (Harvey & Edwards), experienced officials (Clerk of Course etc.), aggrieved party (Plato) and more have all seen no reason to think the incident deliberate, yet forum posts assert differently.
I'll take the views of the professionals until I hear a valid argument otherwise.

[ChrisPage]

Equivelency formulas seem to just cause trouble wherever and whenever they are introduced. You pure and simply cannot provide a level playing field - unless potentially you are at the same circuit every meeting. And even then how to do it? Hamper one set of cars in the straights the others in the squiggly bits? I know where I'd prefer to be faster.

I wish we could just have a single rule - or a free-for-all where you just let different formulas get on with it so everyone naturally filters to the quickest.

Has any equivelency formula ever provided anything other than bitterness? It harms the image of the series in question.

[steve_r]

A couple of weeks ago at Snetterton Plato took pole position, a race win just ahead of his teammate, two 3rd places and fastest lap. So, really for that round perhaps the turbo cars should have been given MORE boost.

It is surprising (for me anyway) to see the top speed difference at Knockhill, and I fully understand why JP is not happy. But in honestly they cannot change the turbo boost / weight penalties for every single different race track that they visit.

The sooner we have a grid full of turbo charged NGTC cars the better. The difference in relative performance between the two rounds shows that it is virtually impossible to always have parity.

[medius]

Originally Posted by garcon

Well, he's either a deliberate dangerous driver or a rank amateur.

So there's no middle ground? Thats a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

He's human and made a mistake.

However, is JP bringing the sport into disrepute?

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonplato/st...70560277995520

[jimothy84]

JP's twitter is regularly like that. I replied to his post about Boardman and got abuse back.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by jimothy84

JP's twitter is regularly like that. I replied to his post about Boardman and got abuse back.

Assuming the "84" is common to you here and on Twitter, in my opinion you asked for it! Criticise what was said by all means, but not the person saying it (or for here - attack the post, not the poster). The second part of your tweet wasn't really necessary, was it?

That said, his reaction to your comment and others wasn't what you'd expect from someone as well-versed in PR as he should be.

[crmalcolm]

Are we sure it is actually him?

It seems strange how he can go from being calm and professional so soon after the incident in his interview, to being so unprofessional and immature hours later.

[richrad smith]

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

The BTCC's reputation took a knock today it seems.

No it never, The only thing to take a knock yesterday was JP's ego!!!!

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by medius

So there's no middle ground? Thats a pretty ridiculous viewpoint.

He's human and made a mistake.

However, is JP bringing the sport into disrepute?

https://twitter.com/#!/jasonplato/st...70560277995520

Exactly - Plato's not exactly an angel either, is he?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It seems strange how he can go from being calm and professional so soon after the incident in his interview, to being so unprofessional and immature hours later.

A beer or three tends to have that effect

[Craner Curves]

From seeing his post race interview to reading that Tweet, he's gone down in my estimation. He doesn't need to resort to name calling.

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

Of course some people will always like to see that type of thing. Usually people with the intelligence of a lamp-post.

People with low intelligence are usually low earners and the knock-on effect is fewer manufacturers will be interested as the BTCC is promoting itself to simpletons.

I saw a good example on the official BTCC Facebook page last week. "Chris Swanwick is going to drive the 2nd Audi, I heard he's a dangerous driver. Should be good, lots of crashes".

Originally Posted by medius

I don't agree that Boardman deliberately decided to put Plato into the tyres. I think he caught him a lot quicker than he expected on the straight (the first tap), and again he caught him right on the apex a lot quicker than he expected (the second tap).

The speeds done at that point of the track, the kerbs making the cars tip on two wheels, the reletively short runoff area and hard tyre wall all combined to make it look like a spectacular accident, but I don't believe for a second that Boardman drove down the straight with the thought in his head ''I'm gonna put you in the wall, Plato!''.

Yes I agree, it was the closing speed that caught Boardman out, rather than anything malicious. Boardman's matured a great deal since his days in the production class when I feel he genuinely was a dangerous driver, especially in that BMW in 2002 and I don't think he meant to do anything like that yesterday. It's just the usual Knockhill carnage plus the ridiculous turbo v n/a issue.

[Greem]

To my surprise, 888 Racing have got in on the name-calling too. A bit more subtle, mind you, but following Plato's comments to the letter. I thought the teams were better than this.

[Steve Milward]

Plato has dished it out for years, giving others a little nudge when he was faster. Not so happy now he is on the recieving end.

As for the name calling he has now reached a new low and if not careful will be getting another reprimand.

[jimothy84]

Originally Posted by Greem

Assuming the "84" is common to you here and on Twitter, in my opinion you asked for it! Criticise what was said by all means, but not the person saying it (or for here - attack the post, not the poster). The second part of your tweet wasn't really necessary, was it?

That said, his reaction to your comment and others wasn't what you'd expect from someone as well-versed in PR as he should be.

You'd assume correctly. Admittedly the second part could be seen as inflamitory, but his original tweet was ridiculous from a "professional", and the Plato apologists falling over themselves to praise him and stroke his ego p!ssed me off. It was an accident, unfortunate Plato couldn't continue but that's how it goes. He's got an awful short memory if he can't remember turn 1 of race 1 at snetterton...

I don't think I asked for it at all, he was out of order and I felt something had to be said.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I saw a good example on the official BTCC Facebook page last week. "Chris Swanwick is going to drive the 2nd Audi, I heard he's a dangerous driver. Should be good, lots of crashes".

As I said in the other thread, drop the crap. To presume that this means that every single BTCC fan is a crash fan mokey is a completely stupid, arrogant view to hold. Get off your high horse.