|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
20 Dec 2007, 17:14 (Ref:2092816) | #26 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Is this another "spirit of the rules" kind of thing?
|
||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
20 Dec 2007, 17:19 (Ref:2092820) | #27 | |||||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,418
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
aka Penske Or was that wording of 'manufacture' vs 'privateers' been defined? Last edited by AU N EGL; 20 Dec 2007 at 17:21. |
|||||
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
20 Dec 2007, 17:26 (Ref:2092829) | #28 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
L.P. |
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:28 (Ref:2092830) | #29 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
So, basically it states, we reserve the right not to homologate your car, even if it meets all the rules, because we might randomly decide it isn't in the class we want you in.
|
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:32 (Ref:2092838) | #30 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
So you can basically remove some excess weight on the block, change crankshaft to get max displacement + desired compression ratio, change valve timing with camshaft and add two stage turbo. |
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:38 (Ref:2092844) | #31 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
The ACO press release also contains some motivation.
Quote:
|
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:46 (Ref:2092850) | #32 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,814
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:49 (Ref:2092853) | #33 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
L.P. |
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 17:52 (Ref:2092855) | #34 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,418
|
My French is alittle rusty, but in my reading:
1.1.1. – La catégorie « LE MANS » PROTOTYPE comprend : a. « LE MANS » PROTOTYPE 1 (« LM »P1) : voiture ouverte ou fermée (*), réservé plus particulièrement aux constructeurs. My interpretation is "Reserved for participation of constructors" Not "Destin is the right English column is printed. .destined - headed or intending to head in a certain direction; b. « LE MANS » PROTOTYPE 2 (« LM »P2) : voiture ouverte ou fermée (*) réservé plus particulièrement aux privées. (*) Les voitures fermées doivent avoir un pare-brise, un toit and "Reserved for participation of priveeters" |
||
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
20 Dec 2007, 17:55 (Ref:2092858) | #35 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
|
Quote:
Really, they should have left the phrase out of P1. |
|||
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
20 Dec 2007, 17:57 (Ref:2092862) | #36 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
|
Why dance around it with intent? Intent is meaningless without a solid cast iron rule. Just spell it out and be done with it.
|
||
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein |
20 Dec 2007, 18:09 (Ref:2092865) | #37 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,919
|
Quote:
L.P. |
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 18:11 (Ref:2092866) | #38 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
If there is a specific intent, state it. The words themselves are currently meaningless, without further context. Spirit of the rules are useless, unless there is specific wording dealing with how those situations are dealt with. Like I've stated in other posts, the P1 wording is superfluous. I understand the intention of the P2 wording, but I think it failed. I believe it specifically needs to state that the class is aimed at Privateers, and the ACO reserves the right to restrict Manufacturer backed whatever, chassis, motor/engine, entry, for no valid reason than it isn't what they want. |
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 18:35 (Ref:2092881) | #39 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,244
|
This is the way i see it:
LMP1 - Manufacturers + privateers who can afford to run manufacturer's cars (e.g. there were rumours of Charouz running a 908) LMP2 - Privateers running customer cars made by manufacturers (i.e. Porsche RS Spyder, Acura ARX01a) or the Lola/Pesca-Saulnier/Oreca-Courage/Zytek/etc + Judd/AER/AIM/Zytek/etc combinations we see. |
||
__________________
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
20 Dec 2007, 18:39 (Ref:2092882) | #40 | |||
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 70
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 18:49 (Ref:2092890) | #41 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 402
|
If I've understood it correctly, the increase in restrictor size for GT1-homologated engines in P1 means the Aston V12 should be able to get up to around 650hp. Could be quite handy.
|
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 19:26 (Ref:2092912) | #42 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
|
Quote:
So ACO is trying to rein in IMSA... pffft. |
|||
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
20 Dec 2007, 20:13 (Ref:2092934) | #43 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,418
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
20 Dec 2007, 20:14 (Ref:2092935) | #44 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
|
edited to add, I suppose the most important thing to take from this is, after a period of mostly stable rules, now is the time to enter into constant tinkering and change (again). I also note that the ACO has decided to pretend that Stephane Ratel doesn't exist. Last edited by paul-collins; 20 Dec 2007 at 20:16. |
||
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
20 Dec 2007, 20:48 (Ref:2092968) | #45 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,418
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
20 Dec 2007, 20:57 (Ref:2092972) | #46 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
|
20 Dec 2007, 21:00 (Ref:2092976) | #47 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
Quote:
Remember the ACO rules that prohibit Maserati MC12 from entering Le Mans, LMS, ALMS (without exception of IMSA). ACO also added some performance penalties to slow GT1 down; e.g., Aston Martin is not allowed to use their special low drag nose. |
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 22:05 (Ref:2093014) | #48 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Regarding the application of these rules to the American Le Mans Series - IMSA is working with the ACO on the modifications necessary for the American Le Mans Series, and will be announcing before the end of the year.
|
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 22:46 (Ref:2093029) | #49 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
We've only seen a muddying of the waters as P1 vs P2 equivalency was too close for comfort. By 2009 the regs will have eased Acura and, if they still wish to compete for overall wins, Porsche into P1. The wording is more to warn Pescarolo, ORECA and co technology, particularly 'green' tech, will not be limited, so costs to develop a privateer chassis may rise. They'll also potentially have to compete with manufacturer developed customer cars from Porsche, Aston etc. |
||
|
20 Dec 2007, 22:58 (Ref:2093034) | #50 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
Fact is, if P2 cannot compete for overall wins, manufacturers will gravitate to P1 naturallly, and/or supply customer cars in P2. Dyson have run well in P2, but Penske are on a different level entirely. |
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2008 sporting and technical regulations updated | Marbot | Formula One | 31 | 3 Jan 2008 03:21 |
ACO Regulations for 2007 | AU N EGL | ACO Regulated Series | 83 | 30 Dec 2006 06:05 |
2007 ACO Supplementary Regulations | AU N EGL | ACO Regulated Series | 2 | 23 Dec 2006 00:04 |
ACO regulations for 2006 released | Alistair_Ryder | ACO Regulated Series | 96 | 14 Nov 2006 08:10 |
Evolution of the ACO regulations in 2007 | Bentley03 | ACO Regulated Series | 177 | 27 Oct 2006 17:17 |