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Old 22 Jul 2012, 13:35 (Ref:3109732)   #26
ljakse
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ljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If that Vettel's pass on Button goes unpunished, I really don't see how can they punish cutting corners in the future...
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 13:38 (Ref:3109733)   #27
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Just stick grass there.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 13:51 (Ref:3109737)   #28
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Just stick grass there.
Or more Astroturf.

Any way just got the tail end of the race so congrats to Alonso.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 13:57 (Ref:3109739)   #29
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If that Vettel's pass on Button goes unpunished, I really don't see how can they punish cutting corners in the future...
Yes, there was a certain inevitability of that pass, but as a point of principle the four wheels off rule should be applied.

Overall though a good race. I watched it on Abu Dhabi TV in Arabic and I had to smile when the commentator said "welcome back Jenson Button" in English.

Enjoyed Lewis fighting to get back on the lead lap, nothing wrong with that, don't know what happened to him though. Most of the passing was courtesy of the DRS which IMO was a shame, however it was an exciting race. The battle between Di Resta, Kobayashi and Perez was particularly exciting. Then the pass by Schumacher on Hulkenburg, taking Kimi with him was also a bit special.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 14:00 (Ref:3109742)   #30
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Vettel went off with all 4 wheels several time through the race! - He should be punished.

Tom Kristensen who has been the driver steward twice, assess that Vettel will get a 20sec punishment for the overtaking.
He is of course not Steward for this race so it's his personal opinion and cannot be held responsible for his statement.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 14:01 (Ref:3109744)   #31
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Agreed, he and Alonso often took all four wheels off.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 14:05 (Ref:3109747)   #32
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ljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Yes, there was a certain inevitability of that pass, but as a point of principle the four wheels off rule should be applied.
Exactly.

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Enjoyed Lewis fighting to get back on the lead lap, nothing wrong with that, don't know what happened to him though.
Maybe someone listened more carefully, but I think I heared Martin saying something like 'they can't get anything more out of this race, and they can enjoy new gearbox without penalty'.
I'm not sure if that's what he was really saying - by the time I paid attention, he went on something else...
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 14:09 (Ref:3109750)   #33
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Ah, thanks.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 14:22 (Ref:3109759)   #34
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maximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmaximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You know, I like Seb a lot (I'll warn you know that I am biased towards Jenson too I suppose!) but he is being a bit of a fibber and his excuses in the interviews after the race only highlight this!
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:22 (Ref:3109781)   #35
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'Racing drivers sometimes lie to gain an advantage' Shock Horror.

Is there a difference between going off track and gaining an advantage and just going off track in order to make the lap shorter in length? If there isn't, there should be.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:28 (Ref:3109784)   #36
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No there shouldn't. If you go off the track you are effectively out of the race. You then have to come back on safely. You can't be half pregnant. Thus if he went off, despite whether there is a gain, it is illegal. We (racers) are being told that you can't put more than two wheels off, yet the FIA, if they allow this, are going against the rules they are making the rest of the world run to.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:30 (Ref:3109786)   #37
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'Racing drivers sometimes lie to gain an advantage' Shock Horror.

Is there a difference between going off track and gaining an advantage and just going off track in order to make the lap shorter in length? If there isn't, there should be.
No, there should be no difference. The Track is where the Track is, if you go outside the track one should under NO circumstances be able to gain an advantage. And it doesn't matter if it's "cutting a corner" (shortening the track) or going wider than the track to gain a higher corner speed.

What amazes me is how often Vettel went outside the track with no warnings. Last year in the ILMC a car would get a warning if it went outside the track with all 4 wheels twice. In F1 nothing happens!?
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:32 (Ref:3109787)   #38
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another boring race, Vettel should be penalised.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:43 (Ref:3109793)   #39
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Clearly the FIA/stewards/teams/other drivers didn't get too upset by Alonso putting all four wheels over the edge of the track. But McLaren and Jenson Button got all 'hot under the collar' about Vettel gaining an advantage by taking the long way around to overtake their car.

Did anyone complain about Alonso doing this? And if not, why not?
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:46 (Ref:3109794)   #40
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Not disagreeing with you in fact I mentioned it above. But the point is there should be no exceptions.

No link posted but: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...95#post3109795
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 15:59 (Ref:3109803)   #41
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The FIA ruling on this is:

"Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not."

OK.

"A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

Sure.

"Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage."

I'm fine with that.

"A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason."

Are: 'My tyres were shagged' 'It started to rain' 'He pushed me off' 'I was driving really crap' 'My car was handling like a truck', justifiable reasons?

Vettel gained a clear advantage, and therefore deserves what's coming/come to him.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 16:18 (Ref:3109810)   #42
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ljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridljakse should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
According to Joe Saward Vettel was given 20 seconds penalty which moves him to fifth
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 16:19 (Ref:3109813)   #43
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Yup.

Just watching the rerun of qualifying. They mentioned the amount of times Fernando was four wheels off. DC also mentioned the advantage thing. It was noticeable in the race at the last turn also.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 16:37 (Ref:3109818)   #44
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No, there should be no difference. The Track is where the Track is, if you go outside the track one should under NO circumstances be able to gain an advantage. And it doesn't matter if it's "cutting a corner" (shortening the track) or going wider than the track to gain a higher corner speed.

What amazes me is how often Vettel went outside the track with no warnings. Last year in the ILMC a car would get a warning if it went outside the track with all 4 wheels twice. In F1 nothing happens!?
Yep, the track is the track. If there was a wall there it would have been a different story. Maybe that's what they should do, put up sections of wall; Vettel and others wouldn't need any warning.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 16:40 (Ref:3109820)   #45
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fourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridfourWheelDrift should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Yup.

Just watching the rerun of qualifying. They mentioned the amount of times Fernando was four wheels off. DC also mentioned the advantage thing. It was noticeable in the race at the last turn also.
All through the race Alonso was going four wheels off onto the drag strip and seemed to be making two corners and a short straight into one long flowing corner. Can't say he did it every lap but when he was under pressure from Button this seemed to be his normal line.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 16:43 (Ref:3109822)   #46
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Well, he's in a Ferrari.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 17:08 (Ref:3109829)   #47
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Might have been because Vettel advanced his position with all four wheels off the circuit, although I agree Alonso was basically on the dragstrip for the entire session yesterday.
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 17:28 (Ref:3109831)   #48
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Have the race organisers lost their black and white diagonal split flag, or did it never exist and I've just made it up in my head?
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 17:56 (Ref:3109838)   #49
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Have the race organisers lost their black and white diagonal split flag, or did it never exist and I've just made it up in my head?
I thought that was the flag to indicate unsportsmanlike conduct?
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Old 22 Jul 2012, 18:13 (Ref:3109851)   #50
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I thought that was the flag to indicate unsportsmanlike conduct?
Driving Standards.....covers a multitude of sins

Do tend to agree that Alonso should also have been penalised for his repeated "all four wheels off"

Maybe they should lace the run-off area with police-style "stingers" - still allow a safety margin so you can run wide and not get hurt, but not give a "get out of jail free" card........can remove 'em for bike events if necessary
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