BTCC 2018 in-season discussion

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I thought the RS was a new car . Is the shell the same? Whats new?

Probably the best way to understand this is look at what an NGTC shell looks like.
https://btcctechnical.wordpress.com/...ont-sub-frame/
Pictures are of a Civic with the older GPRM sub-frames, but the principal is the same on all NGTC cars.

As you can see, there is virtually nothing left of the original shell. Everything forward of the front bulkhead is gone. The TOCA sub-frame attaches to the bulkhead and then all the mechanical parts attach to that. You can't see it in the picture, but there is a big chunk of the rear floorpan missing, which is where the rear sub-frame attaches.

Reduced down to that level, a Focus RS shell would be identical to a Focus ST shell, which would be identical to a Focus Popular Plus, or whatever the base model is called these days. I assume RS road car has different suspension to the regular model, but doesn't matter as none of the components or mounting points carry over to the race car.

The front bodywork and aero-kit are just bolt on fibreglass parts. Changing from ST-style to RS-style bodywork has no impact on the chassis. As all the running gear attaches to the sub-frame, the car would still be drivable with no front bodywork at all.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So - Neal's picked up another in-season hand injury!!



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00006984282007

Well he’s managed to avoid the past few seasons

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The front bodywork and aero-kit are just bolt on fibreglass parts. Changing from ST-style to RS-style bodywork has no impact on the chassis. As all the running gear attaches to the sub-frame, the car would still be drivable with no front bodywork at all.

Though it may not be long enough to get through scrutineering without any front bodywork.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Reduced down to that level, a Focus RS shell would be identical to a Focus ST shell, which would be identical to a Focus Popular Plus, or whatever the base model is called these days. I assume RS road car has different suspension to the regular model, but doesn't matter as none of the components or mounting points carry over to the race car.

All mk3 Focus hatchback chassis are identical, pre or post facelift, Zetec through to RS. Popular Plus? Never been used on any Focus, probably last used that model name around 35yrs ago on mk3 Escort and Popular would have been the base model, Popular Plus was next model up.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by RS67

All mk3 Focus hatchback chassis are identical, pre or post facelift, Zetec through to RS. Popular Plus? Never been used on any Focus, probably last used that model name around 35yrs ago on mk3 Escort and Popular would have been the base model, Popular Plus was next model up.

IIRC I think Fiesta used it later...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

IIRC I think Fiesta used it later...

1991 - Ford Fiesta Popular 1.0.....

[Alfisti]

I think Pop and Pop Plus were retired when the Mk II Fiesta finished production.

EDIT: wrong! Moniker continued on the Mk III Fiesta...

The RS Focus roadcar has different drivetrains, suspension and subframes. How different I don't know, the part numbers are different.

Seems like Brands was ages ago... still another week 'til Donny. NASCAR for this weekends entertainment for me!

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The RS Focus roadcar has different drivetrains, suspension and subframes. How different I don't know, the part numbers are different.

None of those are used on the BTCC versions though.

[Alfisti]

Yes indeed. Motorbase calling the Focus an RS or Dynamics the Civic a Type R is marketing only. None of the components that distinguish the performance versions of the road cars from the bread and butter versions exist on the NGTC cars.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yes indeed. Motorbase calling the Focus an RS or Dynamics the Civic a Type R is marketing only. None of the components that distinguish the performance versions of the road cars from the bread and butter versions exist the NGTC cars.

The fact that Honda is called the Type R and the Focus an RS allows the teams to exploit the aerodynamic improvements of those models, over other models in the car range.

[Bramzel]

All those aero parts are changed on either model anyways so that doesn't matter. It's pure marketing, nothing else.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

All those aero parts are changed on either model anyways so that doesn't matter. It's pure marketing, nothing else.

RS still has it's functional rear diffuser.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

All those aero parts are changed on either model anyways so that doesn't matter. It's pure marketing, nothing else.

Team Dynamics are definitely using some aero on the type r that they would not be able to use if it was any other Civic.

[porsche962fan]

oh dear


does another "Homologation special" wars loom on us ? like Honda offering some extreme parts as "options" on the road cars that almost nobody would buy in order for Dynamics to be able to use it


and so on the other factory cars

[mjcapri]

The RS shell is actually different to all other MK3 Foci. The most obvious differences are the reinforced rear struts and the higher boot floor. Probably a moot point as the BTCC cars aren’t new anyway, but I thought you may be interested!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by mjcapri

The RS shell is actually different to all other MK3 Foci. The most obvious differences are the reinforced rear struts and the higher boot floor. Probably a moot point as the BTCC cars aren’t new anyway, but I thought you may be interested!

The RS boot floor is identical to the rest of the range it just has a deeper polystyrene tray under the mat than some other models because of the subwoofer where a spacesaver spare wheel would normally be. The extra room required for the rear drive unit is made by fitting a smaller petrol tank.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

oh dear does another "Homologation special" wars loom on us ? like Honda offering some extreme parts as "options" on the road cars that almost nobody would buy in order for Dynamics to be able to use it and so on the other factory cars

no. the model of the whole car (like Type R) must be a minimum 2,500 produced and sold in UK. they can't use 'options' or 'add ons'.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

oh dear


does another "Homologation special" wars loom on us ? like Honda offering some extreme parts as "options" on the road cars that almost nobody would buy in order for Dynamics to be able to use it


and so on the other factory cars

I don't think so - unless you consider the whole Type-R as being an extreme option?

The Type-R contains enough aero design to meet NGTC needs, without any options being required.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

no. the model of the whole car (like Type R) must be a minimum 2,500 produced and sold in UK. they can't use 'options' or 'add ons'.

Regulations just state the model should be freely on sale in UK dealerships at time of homologation. It doesn't state a minimum number produced and sold. If it had, the Proton and MG would never have been allowed.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by RS67

Regulations just state the model should be freely on sale in UK dealerships at time of homologation. It doesn't state a minimum number produced and sold. If it had, the Proton and MG would never have been allowed.

sorry but you're wrong.

regulation 3.1.1 "At least 2,500 cars must have been produced in 12 consecutive months"

yes it says that they must be freely on sale in UK dealerships, but it doesnt say that all those 2,500 must have been sold in the UK.

[bella]

there's a difference between produced and sold though.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by bella

there's a difference between produced and sold though.

and your point?

as long as they produce 2,500 of them who cares if they have all been sold? every major manufacturer has many thousands of unsold cars in storage.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

sorry but you're wrong.

regulation 3.1.1 "At least 2,500 cars must have been produced in 12 consecutive months"

Hi - do you have a link to these regulations please?

The regulations I am looking at 'MSA BRITISH TOURING CAR CHAMPIONSHIP - 2018 Sporting Regulations' gives regulation 3.1.1 as

'3.1. Entries:
3.1.1. The BTCC Entry Form is contained within these regulations.'

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Hi - do you have a link to these regulations please?

The regulations I am looking at 'MSA BRITISH TOURING CAR CHAMPIONSHIP - 2018 Sporting Regulations' gives regulation 3.1.1 as

'3.1. Entries:
3.1.1. The BTCC Entry Form is contained within these regulations.'

its in the technical regulations. you are looking at the sporting regulations;


3.1
CHAMPIONSHIP APPROVAL
Homologation Criteria
A Constructor may make application to the Administrator to Homologate a car, solely for use within the BTCC subject to:
.
• It being from a model with a production minima of 2,500 cars
• It being from a family with a production minima of 15,000 cars
• The engine has a production minima of 2,500 from the manufacturers family of marques
• The production minima of the engine, the model and the family must normally have been
achieved prior to the final race of the Championship in its first full season or the homologation
may be invalidated.
• The family and model being freely on sale in the UK through the manufacturers normal dealer
network.
The Administrator may consider applications for cars very close to, but below, the nominal minimum length of 4.4m
‘Model’ definition
All the identical cars belonging to a family (see below) and to a production series distinguishable by an identical conception and identical external general lines of the bodywork, and by an identical mechanical conception of the engine and the transmission to the wheels. At least 2,500 cars must have been produced in 12 consecutive months. For all cars of the same model, the materials of the front and rear bumpers must be identical. The same applies for the material of the boot lid, engine bonnet and front wings, respectively. The bumpers of cars derived from the same model may not include adjustable parts.
‘Family’ definition
Different series models belonging to one and the same production series of the same manufacturer. At least 15,000 cars with identical external general lines of the bodywork must have been produced in 12 consecutive months. The wheelbase as well as the material of the bodywork/shell (including the doors) must also be identical.
All models must be available through the normal commercial channels of the manufacturer.
The external general lines of the bodywork may vary in the following details: -shape and material of front and rear bumpers,
-material of the boot lid, engine bonnet and front wings,
-removable aerodynamic devices (spoilers, wings, sill mouldings),
-control and comfort equipment (sun roof, auxiliary lamps, door handles, exterior mirrors), -decorative strips and mouldings,
-left- and right-hand drive versions,
-2- and 4-door versions, provided that these differ only with regard to the doors, door openings and B-pillar.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

its in the technical regulations. you are looking at the sporting regulations;

Ah - thanks.