Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

From what I hear, the Ford GT got some serious waivers.

Thats a fairly broad assessment. All cars get waivers, especially new designs and homologations.

[Spyderman]

Great! Then there should be no complaints about the mid-engined 911.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Some news on the 2016 cars: I have it from a good source that the 488 will be about 2.5 seconds quicker than the current 458. There is however quite a bit of turbo lag, but that just means the drivers will adapt their driving styles.
The rumor is that the new Ford GT is a monster (barring BOP).
(Both news items are from the same source)

It seems Porsche has their work cutout for them.

At the Daytona test last week the Ford didn't appear light years ahead of everyone else. Of course there were no official times and Porsche didn't bring their 2016 car so we don't know how they sit in the mix either.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Great! Then there should be no complaints about the mid-engined 911.

Richard

[rich07]

Porsche GT1 mk2?

I'd love to see that happen again

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by Adam43

No need to cry BOP surely? Wouldn't it just happen automatically? I'd keep it as it is, BOP makes it competitive in the dry and trounce everyone when it rains

Yeah, there's this "convenient" fact about RR layout which is probably my favorite part about the 911 (I'm an armchair racer but sims still simulate well the abundant corner exit grip the 911 has).

Originally Posted by Adam43

This is why I don't 'get' the Ford GT. All that effort will just be removed by BOP. Am I missing something about GTE? (Genuine question)

This is really annoying because current racing puts emphasis on the show and economic sustainability so we can't have the very best being developed. OTOH it ensures the series continues. The premier series without BOP is F1 and, well, that's not very competitive nor cost-friendly ATM.

(actually F1 has always had a "political BOP" but let's not get into that)

[Articus]

Originally Posted by joeb

At the Daytona test last week the Ford didn't appear light years ahead of everyone else. Of course there were no official times and Porsche didn't bring their 2016 car so we don't know how they sit in the mix either.

Ford sandbagged at Daytona.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Articus

Ford sandbagged at Daytona.

They weren't alone

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by joeb

They weren't alone

Pruett's comment that everyone was sandbagging and running flat out at the same time!

WEC at least has an anti sandbagging rule for this type of situation.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Pruett's comment that everyone was sandbagging and running flat out at the same time!

WEC at least has an anti sandbagging rule for this type of situation.

So did IMSA last year. Honestly I'm not worried about any one car being to far ahead. I'd love it if a team was allowed to work to have an advantage but that is sadly not the world we live in anymore. BMW seemed to still be getting to grips with their new car but I'm sure they will be on pace by the time the season starts.

[Deleted]

I miss arakis. His views were so familiar to mine.

How do you think the current LMGT models would place if they were all free of bop and waivers then. In HONEST competition.

458
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C7.R
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991
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GTS-R
Z4
...
...
997 (just because it's so old now)
Vantage

Next year the new Ferrari still on top but Ford between that and the Corvette? IDK

[boki]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I miss arakis. His views were so familiar to mine.

How do you think the current LMGT models would place if they were all free of bop and waivers then. In HONEST competition.

458
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
C7.R
...
...
...
...
...
991
...
...
GTS-R
Z4
...
...
997 (just because it's so old now)
Vantage

Next year the new Ferrari still on top but Ford between that and the Corvette? IDK

You are in delusion.

[Deleted]

Thanks dad

But yeah Aston probably would eat Ferraris and Corvettes for breakfast if bop wasn't practiced and waivers didn't exist. Judt as they have done in actual stastics with those two in use. Right? Right.




In real word Ferraris direct injection alone would make em look laughable.

[rich07]

I miss Arakis too. And Badger. They used to have some blazing arguments that were quite entertaining heh heh.

[boki]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Thanks dad

But yeah Aston probably would eat Ferraris and Corvettes for breakfast if bop wasn't practiced and waivers didn't exist. Judt as they have done in actual stastics with those two in use. Right? Right.




In real word Ferraris direct injection alone would make em look laughable.

ok for Aston. ..but FerrarivsPorsche ,Ferrari with large engine have a bigger torgue,they where faster on le mans (corvete too )....when engines where with same dimension( 996vs 360 997vs430)porsche always had stronger engine .rules in start is wrong. sorry because of the my bad English

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by boki

ok for Aston. ..but FerrarivsPorsche ,Ferrari with large engine have a bigger torgue,they where faster on le mans (corvete too )....when engines where with same dimension( 996vs 360 997vs430)porsche always had stronger engine .rules in start is wrong. sorry because of the my bad English

It is rules that are wrong of course (or the lack of them) but we were talking of the real paces of the current models... and in current trim unbopped, unwaivered Porsche would have nothing against Ferrari or even Corvette. Their engines were good and solid in GT2, but since then they've taken the lazy route....because they can... that's not the fault of Porsche but GTE

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by boki

You are in delusion.

Its the other way around really, the Ferrari 458 has easily been the best car of its generation.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by rich07

I miss Arakis too. And Badger. They used to have some blazing arguments that were quite entertaining heh heh.

Yeah much better than me against X, or Nissan thread back and forth, or or... they had charm

[Fogelhund]

Of course if it weren't for bad BOP, Porsche would be running a twin turbo and walking away from Ferrari.. or Corvette could be running a bigger engine, or...

The rules are the rules, including BoP. This pretending that one car would be better, because it has less waivers, or less BoP... really, who cares, it's silliness.

[Deleted]

You seem to be confusing words BoP and waivers with regulations! If the regs said "have an engine comforming with this set of specifications here, have these max width height and aero dimensions, you may have these parts and features if your road car does, restrictor goes per capacity table alone, every car is 1245kg minimum, every fuel tank is 90 liters, no exceptions are to be made from our rule set"... there would be no issues of your describtion

And if you need to use bop by force majeure it is once or twice in a season. Per the idea of latter part of my sig, what ACO used to think.

Waivers, no.

Anyway, it is no more silly talking about this than it is to have these WWE rules on track.

[boki]

Originally Posted by Chiana

It is rules that are wrong of course (or the lack of them) but we were talking of the real paces of the current models... and in current trim unbopped, unwaivered Porsche would have nothing against Ferrari or even Corvette. Their engines were good and solid in GT2, but since then they've taken the lazy route....because they can... that's not the fault of Porsche but GTE

if we respect the rules than we must respect the Bop. bad rules bad Bop or god rules god Bop. 991 is dominant car on 2015year .....

[Fogelhund]

BoP, waivers are all part of the regulations, or the rules that these cars are run by. It is silliness to a) Bring this up in a discussion about a specific car, particularly the comparisons... if you wish to discuss such nonsense, there is a thread for that... http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...03894&page=522
b) Without the current BoP, Porsche would be running dominant bi-turbos, as they always had, until they were legislated out of dominance.

This all sounds like sour grapes..my car lost because. Porsche won the day in all the series that mattered.... Time to move on and not be sore loser.

[TF110]

I dont see anyone being a sore loser, but the off-topic is there. Maybe this new Porsche isnt so bad in terms of waivers. We'll just have to see.

[Pole2Win]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I miss arakis. His views were so familiar to mine.

How do you think the current LMGT models would place if they were all free of bop and waivers then. In HONEST competition.

458
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
C7.R
...
...
...
...
...
991
...
...
GTS-R
Z4
...
...
997 (just because it's so old now)
Vantage

Next year the new Ferrari still on top but Ford between that and the Corvette? IDK

If no waiver there would be no Viper nor Z4 even.

The Vantage and to a lesser extent the 911 are what show why BOP can be a travesty sometimes. The Vantage is a car still from FIA GT time, it's laughably old now. The 911 simply doesn't have the potential. Porsche knows it doesn't need to improve the 911 that much so they keep it as 4.0L flat-6 for the "purist" road car clientele despite having the weakest engine in GTE because hey, we'll get our BOP anyway.

Porsche twin turbo was dominant in the past but it's how a GT 911 could be competitive in the bigger classes. The old Carrera RSR had the advantage of weight over similar competition but due to its limitations (air-cooled being the biggest one) Porsche knew the only way they could get more power out of it was turbo, hence the 930 (and all derived model like 934, 935 and so on).

Ferrari lost displacement but the turbo will give the 488 what the 458 needed, the torque. If they iron the kinks out it'll be a fantastic car.

[carbsmith]

They've kept it a 4L NA flat 6 because nothing but a flat 6 will fit in the car and GTE has not allowed turbocharged engines. The problem is the engine has been carried over from the previous car for several years despite being behind the development curve to start with.

C6.R was fully able to beat the 458 straight up before all this BoP nonsense started and the current C7.R is way more car than it was at the time, I don't understand why anyone would think it's a weaker than the Ferrari.