Mikey's Full of Hot Air!!!

[indycool]

I disagree. If they have 80,000 or so on Race Day at Long Beach or 80,000 or so on Race Day at Texas, the overwhelming number of them are general event/race fans who don't care, and don't need to be required to care, who sanctions the race.

[corkholio]

It was pretty well known that Gentilozzi was going to enter into the IRL before finding out CART was far cheaper to run last year.

[indycool]

Understand, A.C. Your perspective is legit to me, albeit that I disagree somewhat. I just don't think it serves much of a positive purpose at all for OWRS to "hang on" for a season or two, except for them to lose a lot of money and wind up back in the same situation we are now. OWRS' original proposal in the stock buy deal was only a guaranteed series through Feb. 1, 2005, so they were planning to do one year and see what happened.

The OWRS projections are for a loss of $22 million for '04. In CART's BEST years, pre-IPO, CART was only making a few million a year and some of that was creative accoungting (for example, showing Rio stiffing them as a receiveable forever). How long would it take, under PRESENT conditions, for OWRS to make back the $22 million? And how can OWRS do it for a $22 million loss when Pook lost $80 million doing it last year?

There are just things here that don't add up.

[indycool]

corkholio, that's what a ton of Pookfare will do for making up one's mind.

[GP Racer]

Ac, I'll admit to being cynical and non-trusting about Gentilozzi and his motives, but I'll also say that I was much happier, when it appeared that "talks" between TG and OWRS were going well, and a merger that would benefit all, seemed like a real possibility. I didn't want to see this get ugly, but it is, and I don't believe it will get better now.

It will be bitter to the end, I'm afraid...

[SurfaceUnits]

Explain to me again the significance of the indycar label to those 160 thousand people who don't care.

[Mags]

I'm sure he'd love CART to go away, so he wouldn't have to deal with the fact he made a colossal mistake every morning when he wakes up.
He's full of something alright...

[hawkeracer]

"Anyone that matters in these two series, is calling for one series! "

I'm not sure that's an accurate statement.

It seems to me, and I agree with this, is that many, if not a majority of Champ Car fans would rather have nothing at all to do with Tony George, the instigator of all of this disruption.

I wouldn't go anywhere to watch anything that Tony George is involved in... that is unless it was to his hanging.

[hawkeracer]

Oh, and its not hot air that Michael Andretti is "full of".

[Mags]

Originally posted by Baritone24
I think for the fans, and the sport of open wheel racing. there just needs to be one series for god sake, just divide the venues up equaly and get on with the racing already. I want to see fast openwheel 750hp cars on the best circuts and ovals that best sute the fans and the sponsers demands. so everyone can be happy and to top it off have the Indy 500 as the crown jewel, heck bring back the tripe crown just do something UNIFIED soon ps Nascar has already won who's going to be the first loser?

He's great, isn't he? Speaking to the fans like they want to be spoken to. It's refreshing to hear someone defend what he so firmly believes in.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by hawkeracer
"Anyone that matters in these two series, is calling for one series! "

I'm not sure that's an accurate statement.

It seems to me, and I agree with this, is that many, if not a majority of Champ Car fans would rather have nothing at all to do with Tony George, the instigator of all of this disruption.

I wouldn't go anywhere to watch anything that Tony George is involved in... that is unless it was to his hanging.

I was really talking about the guys who have money on the line here, you know, a real stake in what happens. Team owners, drivers, promotors, and sponsors.

The money guys all know what has to happen here.

[Ac.]

You're right GP Racer, most of the team owners, promoters, sponsers, and particularly ex-CART drivers who are now in the IRL would like to see one series. What is unknown is what those teams are willing to accept in a merge. A two year roadmap to bring the two chassis and engine specs together is what is required to merge the series without totally screwing one side or the other.

[indycool]

Surface, what 160,000 people?

Hawkeye Racer, I don't think anyone who attends an IRL event goes to watch Tony George shuffle papers or answer the phone. They buy tickets to watch races.

A.C., I beg to differ. A two-year road map on specs is exactly what the two series' DOESN'T need. Why would one or the other be "screwed" if the IRL stays as it is and CART teams coming over merely buy new chassis? The CART cars, in '04, will now be three years old. No one needs to hang on to that formula economically at this point for any reason except maybe Ford, which is in the IRL anyway with the Chevworth.

[hawkeracer]

"I was really talking about the guys who have money on the line here, you know, a real stake in what happens. Team owners, drivers, promotors, and sponsors."

That doesn't neccessarily bring exclusivity or credibility to understanding what is neccessary for this sport.

The fan is by definition, at the core of this issue, and without it, as the IRL is experiencing, which is the life blood of this sport, will determine whether they want to accept the IRL, and its NASCARization of a once great sport.

[SurfaceUnits]

And on the other side, you have the IRL faithful who aren't too pleased with TG's cart'ization of their mediocre sport.

[Testure]

Originally posted by Ac.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/racin...r.asp?nid=1453

That was an interesting piece of opinion, thanks for that... I think this quote from there sums up my impression:

And anybody betting on a CART collapse to jump-start the IRL ratings must be lovers of fiction. That remaining core is almost exclusively anti-Tony George and thus more likely to get its kicks from women's soccer. I doubt there's anything north of one-tenth of a point to be gained.

[champcarman]

All of this would not be neccessary if Tony had not formed the IRL in the first place. I know this is all history now and has been gone over many times but as time has passed the real reasons for the IRL formation have become obvious and any credibility Tony George may have had has long disappeared. The writer of the Valvoline.com article suggests that we need Lasoski and Yeley in the IRL.I remember Tony in 1996 "the IRL is all about opportunity for American midget and sprint car drivers who never get the opportunity to race at the Indy 500 like in the old days".So what has happened? The IRL has become the CART that Tony hated so much,hasn't it? Except that Tony now has the power (and the problems?) that he craved so much.I don't know how to fix it. I don't like the concept of big powerful open wheelers on high speed ovals that has created the safety problems the IRL now have but the history and fame of the Indy 500 needs to be preserved and built upon. US open wheel racing is much more popular Internationally than NASCAR so this is one area that should be remembered and possibly built upon. CART has massive crowds at some of it's street course venues. Why lose these? A combination of the best of the IRL and CART is the way to go.How this happens is irrelevant to open wheel fans.Lets just get back to where we were before 1996.

[Straightup]

It really doesn't matter at this point who started the war. It just needs to end. 2 series have not worked to this point and I fail to see anything to suggest otherwise.

Let's get back to one series that runs small ovals, intermediate ovals, super speedways, street courses and road courses. Line up 26-28 well funded cars with the best open wheel racers in the word and lets go racing. Call it what ever you want. Worry less about who owns it and more about the existence of indycars/champ cars if this doesn't get unified.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Straightup
It really doesn't matter at this point who started the war. It just needs to end. 2 series have not worked to this point and I fail to see anything to suggest otherwise.

Let's get back to one series that runs small ovals, intermediate ovals, super speedways, street courses and road courses. Line up 26-28 well funded cars with the best open wheel racers in the word and lets go racing. Call it what ever you want. Worry less about who owns it and more about the existence of indycars/champ cars if this doesn't get unified.

Yep, and that series was called "CART". TEO didn't want to do that - so he started the IRL. Remember 1997. OWR has the right attitude, and the right men at the helm. I wish them well.

[Ac.]

Originally posted by indycool
A.C., I beg to differ. A two-year road map on specs is exactly what the two series' DOESN'T need. Why would one or the other be "screwed" if the IRL stays as it is and CART teams coming over merely buy new chassis?

Oh indycool, you truly are an IRL fan first. CART fans don't want to give up everything they hold dear. Turbo-chargers, higher horsepower, less downforce...these are all things that many believe promote better racing because they emphasize the skill of the driver. At so many of the IRL venues the drivers simply run flat out, no lifting off the gas because of the aero package and reduced power. It may take nads of steel, but not as much skill.

For any merger to bring the fans of both series together, it must respect some of the goals of each side. This is an enormous task...

Thank you champcarman for summing it up,I agree that the fan doesn't care who puts the race. I just really miss those days of CART when Great drivers That we all new raced on great tracks. Thats why us great fans are in such a state of outrage,about how a marqee series can lose so much. I dont know what can be done except to Unifiy so everyone could get on to grear racing. Like its supposed to be. I really miss it alot

[Scrutineer78]

2006 will see CART circa 95. I hope the growth will follow. PG is almost as bad as TG for the doublespeak.

For those truely interested in a reunification, find my thread in the IRL section. I'd post up here but I don't want this place to catch fire.

[Omega99]

Well, if TG wants to have "some" road courses, and that only means 3-4 an a schedule with 17 ovals, then you can watch my interest drop like a stone. It has to be close to 50/50 in order to attract the interest of CART's road racing fans. At the very least, I'd need to see Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Long Beach, Mexico City, and Surfer's Paradise to follow it. Throw in Monterrey (MEX), Laguna Seca, Road America, maybe Cleveland and St. Pete's, and I'm there. Bring on Lola/Reynard chasis and I'm tickled pink. But I can't really put faith in TG just yet when he's made no promises and given no indications of his master plans for the future. I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with OWRS for 2004, at least, and work out the rest of these details later.

[gttouring]

AARAGRAGAHGAHRAGHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the heck is going on, does everyone have to chime in? what to make IRL legit? if everyone would've stayed put, (with rules stability purchased IRL cars would be good for 5 years at a time) we wouldn't have this mess, and now everyone running to do the 500 (which has begun to mean less and less to me) they abandoned the good home of CART- for IRL-BAH!! one series is easily the best idea, but to claim it as something they just thought of or that they are the heralds of good tidings-CHampcars rule it was they who posed a threat to the world not Indyracing league cars, or former Indy cars being renamed (rather well as Champcars) have become the chariots of real drivers and speed- to bad there is a shortage of real drivers in them-poo on Mikey, and Penske and Chip, maybe we will have one series again which will be great with our same cast of characters we love, but these guys are such fair weather fans, they have no integrity and it pains me so.
Death to IRL-Long live IndyCars

GT... Dodging the autocensor is one thing. It ticks me off and you know it. But the garbage you opened this post with is totally unacceptable. Don't do it again.

[indycool]

A.C., once again I beg to differ. The problems in OW racing are not what specs to run. The problems in the NBA aren't whether or not the basketball is made by Rawlings or Spalding.