888 Gets Off... Time To Fix The Rules?

[chavez]

The fact that even with the incident clearly caught by the TV cameras, that a decision had to be made after the race shows how poorly the rules are written.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

But who should get pinged, though? The team, or the driver?

The team (and yes the driver is part of the team) win and lose together.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by rich07

Damn straight. That rule is there for that reason and that reason alone. Could end very nasty for someone on the wrong end of a spinning wheel.

As far as the car controller goes, the rule should be black and white.

-the car controller doesn't touch anything or anyone during the pitstop.

Nothing. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

There we go. No interpretation. No grey areas. No claims of doing it for safety reasons or any other excuses.

You touch something you get pinged.

Simple

Yeah.......really
That's what we like to see. A sensible set of rules, with a sensible approach to putting them into practice.
I have no issue with safe work practices, but we now have this situation, where the powers that be, have now got to the point where every little point of issue will be analysed to death, as per the video refs in the ball sports, with the added perspective that every team is now ready to get square and dob each other in at every opportunity. Motorsport, by its nature has a very technical set of rules, however, the sport will only suffer, particularly with more and more cameras now being used by the race producers and the readiness of the TV crowd to stir the pot, and create a storm out of minor detail infringements.
Maybe the answer would be to get in touch with Eduardo Freitas, and see how its done with a common sense approach.
If a team member gets injured through an unsafe procedure, that could have been avoided, sure..... throw the book at them, like what happens in real workplace situations. Maybe in the warm fuzzy world we live in these days, some counseling could be implemented to rectify the problems.

[Trevor]

I thought Damian White explained it quite well, he knows the rules. In this case I believe 888 had nothing to answer for, it was a 'safety' issue


And believe me, it is ****en hard for me to say anything nice about 888

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Trevor

I thought Damian White explained it quite well, he knows the rules. In this case I believe 888 had nothing to answer for, it was a 'safety' issue


And believe me, it is ****en hard for me to say anything nice about 888

Take heart, that's how the rule is currently written & interpreted.

888 have had 2 failures now, where the car controller has done work beyond what a reasonable man (or woman) might consider to be their station. Penalised once from two.

A 50% chance to do something outside the spirit of some loosely worded rules. Might be worth the risk if its important enough.

At least until the rules are tightened up

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Take heart, that's how the rule is currently written & interpreted.

888 have had 2 failures now, where the car controller has done work beyond what a reasonable man (or woman) might consider to be their station. Penalised once from two.

A 50% chance to do something outside the spirit of some loosely worded rules. Might be worth the risk if its important enough.

At least until the rules are tightened up

Probably won't change that rule too much

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Take heart, that's how the rule is currently written & interpreted.

888 have had 2 failures now, where the car controller has done work beyond what a reasonable man (or woman) might consider to be their station. Penalised once from two.

A 50% chance to do something outside the spirit of some loosely worded rules. Might be worth the risk if its important enough.

At least until the rules are tightened up

Sorry, disagree - 2 instances - in one the cc worked on the car - forbidden & very clear in the rules. In the second, the cc didn't touch the car but touched a wheel - not forbidden by the rules.

"Spirit" does not come into the rules, nor can it be considered - an act is either within the rules or it is not & in the case of the weekend, the rules don't prevent what the cc did.100% correct application of the rules and they are not loosely worded but rather completely clear.

My 2c is that I'd rather the cc (who is responsible for safety in the pit stop under the rules) stopped the rolling wheel. If the wheel rolled into the fast lane, got hit by another car and injured someone, sure the team get fined but someone has still been injured. I'd much rather that the cc grab the wheel (as the rules allow them to do) than the potential of someone getting injured - much better outcome.

[ForumNick]

What rolling wheel "..you talk'n 'bout Willis"????

The wheel was lying flat !!

[rich07]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

What rolling wheel "..you talk'n 'bout Willis"????

The wheel was lying flat !!

Yep

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

What rolling wheel "..you talk'n 'bout Willis"????

The wheel was lying flat !!

Yeah, not well expressed - I was also thinking about the penalty at Winton where a wheel rolled into the fast lane from another team & not so specific about this case. Similar point though - personally I'd rather that the cc in this case moved the wheel out of the way rather than leave it and possibly cause an issue - the rules don't prevent the cc from doing so.

[Bugger All]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Sorry, disagree - 2 instances - in one the cc worked on the car - forbidden & very clear in the rules. In the second, the cc didn't touch the car but touched a wheel - not forbidden by the rules.

The way I saw the weekends incident was this. When the car controller touched that wheel it had been removed from the car and another wheel had been fitted to the car. Therefore the wheel was no longer part of the car (it had been replaced) and was a worst a spare part and at best a pit lane obstruction. If the rules do not consider obstructions or spare parts not associated with the car than there can be no issue there!!

[Trevor]

someone is trying to create a storm in a tea cup here, the car controller did exactly what the rules (and common sense) allows him to do, time to move on I think



And I ****en hate Roland Dane and 888

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Trevor

And I ****en hate Roland Dane and 888

So you keep saying!
Can we ask why? ....... this deep seated hatred. Has he done something to offend you?

[bluesport]

The cc is there to do cc duties only for safety reasons, whether it is the car or the wheel should be irrelevant, if the wording is wrong it needs to be changed.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If V8SC cant police the rules, if V8SC cant observe all of the activities in the lane.. its time to add more resource to that process, not wait till Mr Crompton play's home viewer judiciary and declares a failure...

A better approach would be to free up the rules and let everyone race. The nanny state that car racing has gotten into trying to ensure a fairer playing field has done nothing more than ensure the whole thing is boring everyone to sleep. Give 'em manual jacks and two blokes to do it like in NASCAR. I have a novel idea, let 'em go racing instead of having stupid compulsory pit stops for no good reason at all, the issue won't arise at all then.

Note to D. White, let's run racing like we did at KG in the karts and have some fun, all these rules are BS.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Casper

I have a novel idea, let 'em go racing instead of having stupid compulsory pit stops for no good reason at all, the issue won't arise at all then.

well apart from they would have run out of fuel

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

The cc is there to do cc duties only for safety reasons, whether it is the car or the wheel should be irrelevant, if the wording is wrong it needs to be changed.

If you go and read the rules concerned, they're very clear and specific on what the cc's role is and what the cc can't do. No change needed to the rule as what the 888 cc did on Sunday is within the rules.

The rules have been in place for a lot of years and have stood the test of time. All that we have now is a few people who don't understand the rules trying to stir excrement.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

If you go and read the rules concerned, they're very clear and specific on what the cc's role is and what the cc can't do. No change needed to the rule as what the 888 cc did on Sunday is within the rules.

The rules have been in place for a lot of years and have stood the test of time. All that we have now is a few people who don't understand the rules trying to stir excrement.

That's BS, the rules need to be changed as they are now failing "the test of time".

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

That's BS, the rules need to be changed as they are now failing "the test of time".

How are they failing? They're clear, do the job needed and make complete sense. What else are you looking for?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

How are they failing? They're clear, do the job needed and make complete sense. What else are you looking for?

A reason to complain about bias in the sport towards 888?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mixer

A reason to complain about bias in the sport towards 888?

LOL - if only 10/10ths had a "like" button I'd have used it - good call mate.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by peckstar

well apart from they would have run out of fuel

Schools out, Peckys here. Bigger tanks might fix that, or actually use real fuel. Sales of E10 are falling so that experiment has not been a raging success.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Schools out, Peckys here. Bigger tanks might fix that, or actually use real fuel. Sales of E10 are falling so that experiment has not been a raging success.

Government sponsored greenwashing in any case.

Manildra used their political bribery to get it mandated. Yes its made from cane, but it costs more petrol to make it than you get out of it... So without Government subsidy, it won't stand up on its own.

[ForumNick]

Originally Posted by Tourer

LOL - if only 10/10ths had a "like" button I'd have used it - good call mate.

here you go....

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Casper

Schools out, Peckys here. Bigger tanks might fix that, or actually use real fuel. Sales of E10 are falling so that experiment has not been a raging success.

i think the insult was a bit unnecessary, however clearly i studied maths at school

even with bigger tanks and not using E10 would still have a fuel stop, unless you wanted some massive 180 litre tank or similar

Nothing wrong with having pit stops, thats called strategy,