Zonta Speaks Out

[Dani]

I think JV has alot of respect 4 Craig Pollock but little 4 anyone else!! It doesn't surprise me with what Zonta said, cos JV seems the type of bloke, well we know he is the type of bloke to diss people behind there back!! Cos he has done it with Michael! I have lost the little bit of respect i had 4 him! I mean i know people say things about there teamates but not that harsh!! I suppose its OK 4 JV to have accidents and be a mobile chicane but when it comes to Zonta, they say its his fault!! I think they should keep a closer eye on JV from now on!!!

[Roy2]

JV seems to have no time for his teamates. I wonder to what extent, if any, this behavior comes from his understanding of what happened to his father? Had Gilles never trusted Pironi, had he never let him get anywhere near him, perhaps he would be alive today.
Maybe the presence of a team mate is anathema to JV. It's for sure that a would be Pironi will never sneak up on him.

[neutral]

Ralfs girl, your interpretation was spot on. I am not saying that Jaques is absent of courage. However, he posesses no more than the average F1 driver. His comments are always filled with vanity or criticisms and this is what I dislike.

[chow wei hsien]

JV is one of the few guys that talks rubbish whenever he opens his mouth. Jacques is highly over-rated!!
He matched Damon Hill coz Damon isn't that good.
Look at what JV is doing with BAR. nothing.

1998,1999 , 2000,.... three yrs had gone by, no win

Example of the rubbish that JV talks:

"we will take,...blah blah a few years to win the championship" pure nonsense!! it will never happen again.


when I think Olivier Panis had his big accident in Montreal(1997), JV said nonsense such as, "in Indy car racing, these accidents are very normal, nothing to shout about"
this is where that idiot tries to show is bravery, he is in fact showing his stupidity and irritating character. And also, I think he means that the F1 safety council is making Olivier's accidet such a big deal.


"I've got nothing to lose next year when I go to BAR" -referring to the uncompetitive Williams in 1998. Fact is JV lost all the chances to be at the top.




JV's driving is just horrible in the wet! he is useless.
JV is very weak in setting up the car. JV is praised by some quarters just becoz of his commitment in the dry, which is to drive over the limit regardless of where he is. but that doesn't mean going 110% all the time is a great driver.




now referring to Craig Pollock- a word of advice to the typical big talking American, go back to US. your style of management will never work in the top class F1 racing. You just don't know what it takes to build a winning team. I am sure if Michael Schumacher is to become a team boss, he will be much better than Craig Pollock.


can anyone remember one of the stupidest thing Craig said before??
"we want to win our first race in F1" ............what a joke. what a stupid boast. winning your first race in F1 in your very first Grand Prix??

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by chow wei hsien
1998,1999 , 2000,.... three yrs had gone by, no win

You just reminded me of a point I wanted to make on a thread a while ago.

People rate Villeneuve as a better driver than Ralf. If this is so, how come - with a virtually identical Williams to the 1998 one - in 1999, Ralf did a better job than Villeneuve did?

I've been wondering about that for some time now.

[chow wei hsien]

HONDA made a damn bloody mistake by teaming up with BAR... BAR is a team that only knows how to throw money into F1 and overspend the budget given.

At least with a huge budget, Ferrari is producing something, produced a great result if not a WDC during the earlier yrs like in 1996, 1997 1998 1999.

Compare Ferrari drivers with BAR drivers, compare Ferrari management with BAR management. it is like comparing heaven and earth. BAR should switch to Champ Car coz it doesn't stand a chance in F1, get lost to Champ car JV!!

JV should seriously **** off to Champ Car coz when he is whining and complaining about stupid rules of F1 (eg. introduction of grooved tyres), he is used to say


"I'm coming to F1 just to have some fun, when i no longer have fun, i won't do F1 any longer"

a 1999 season without a point. JV are you having fun in that season?? why don't you **** off to US ?? the man with full of sh*T whenever he opens his mouth!!!

[Bononi]

$$ MONEY $$ is fun
$$ FUN $$ is money.

[Tris]

Originally posted by chow wei hsien
now referring to Craig Pollock- a word of advice to the typical big talking American.

can anyone remember one of the stupidest thing Craig said before??
"we want to win our first race in F1" ............what a joke. what a stupid boast. winning your first race in F1 in your very first Grand Prix??

First off I always thought that Pollack was Canadain...

Second it was Reynard who made all the claims about winning BAR's first race. Up until that point every car he had designed won it's first race.

[LYM]

BAR did improved by 20 points, from the last position to the fifth this year.

And what do you expect drivers to say other than words of optimism? Who will say things like"The team I'm driving for ain't gonna win anything"?!

Ralf, Button and Montoya had all said that they are going to win the WDC one day. Of course they have the capabilities but are we going to pound on them if none of them can make it? (touch wood!)

JV..1998,99,00 three years and no win.
Nobody(except Damon Hill and HHF)outside Ferrari and McLarens had won anything these three years. Why is JV singled out from the rest for critisism?

I dunno why u guys dont like JV...I think he and Ralf are in for something big next year...

[Tris]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl

You just reminded me of a point I wanted to make on a thread a while ago.

People rate Villeneuve as a better driver than Ralf. If this is so, how come - with a virtually identical Williams to the 1998 one - in 1999, Ralf did a better job than Villeneuve did?

I've been wondering about that for some time now.

Here are a few interesting statistics.

In 1998 Hakkinen won the championship with 100 points.
Jacques was 5th in the championship with 21 points and was the top non Ferrari / McLaren.
JV failed to finish four races. He crashed out of three and was out due to car problems in one.
JV had two podium finishes. Four drives had more; Hakkinen (11) Schumacher Snr (11) Coulthard (9) Eddie Irvine (8)


In 1999
Hakkinen was champion with 76 points and
Ralf was sixth with thirty five points. (With Michael being out for half the season it is arguable that there were more points available)
RS like JV failed to finish four races. He crashed out of three and was out due to car problems in one.
RS had three podium finishes in 1999. Five drivers had more; Hakkinen (10) Irvine (9) Schumacher (6) Frentzen (6) and Coulthard (6)

1999 was an unusual season in that Hakkinen kept falling off the road and MS were not there, there were more points to be picked up. Ralf did a good job in 1999. I could not say if the job he did was any better than Villeneuve did in 1998. Given that the car was radically different aerodynamically and they had four rather than three groves in the front tyres in 199 comparisons are difficult. Also there was no tyre war in 1999 so the cars were closer as the top two team had the same tyre. this is an important factor as both Goodyear and Bridgstone were tailoring their tyres to their top team in 1998.

Did Ralf do a really better job than JV at Williams?

[R]

I'm not gonna dignify a lot of the **** that has been going on in this topic with an answer. However I will comment on a few points.

I think Roy2 has a very valid point about JV's feelings towards team-mates. I remember in 97 he said he didn't regard Frentzen as a team-mate because they had nothing to do with each other, they had two different teams around them. I don't agree with Jacques' attitude here, but seen in relation to what happened to his father, it's understandable.

Regarding him doing nothing in the BAR, that statement falls on its own unreasonability. It's beyond doubt that Jacques has dragged more out of that machinery than most current drivers would have managed.

It's true that JV called Panis' accident in 97 "no big deal". This statement must be understood from a racer's point of view. It's a fact that when compared to horrendous accidents drivers have suffered in the past (for instance Roland Ratzenberger, who was a close friend of Jacques), breaking a leg is indeed "no big deal". It was sad for Olivier, and it ruined his season, but hey, he lived to see another day. Others have not been that fortunate. You would never find Jacques labeling a serious accident (fatal, near-fatal or cripling) "no big deal".

As for Zonta, if he ever thought he would be treated equally to Jacques, he must have been dreaming. It was clear from the start that the team would be built around JV, with his friend Pollock as boss and JV being 97 WDC. I have nothing against Ricardo, and I wish him well in his career, but Jacques is without doubt faster. Of course he gets preferential treatment. But the same thing happens in other teams (TGF at Ferrari, Mika at McLaren (even though they don't admit it) and Fisi at Benetton (up until the point when he fell out of favour with Flavio and the roles became reversed)). So this should be no surprise.

Two points concerning the interview:

1. Do not believe everything you read. Journalists want to write controversial stories to boost sales, and will exaggerate and write things out of context to reach this goal.

2. If Zonta said any of what's quoted, it could either be true, untrue or somewhere in between, most likely the latter. I have no doubt Villeneuve is one of the tuffest drivers around you could have as a team-mate, and Ricardo may very well feel he has been treated harshly. On the other hand, he may have made mountains out of molehills on some issues, simply because he's disappointed to lose his seat and has sour grapes over having been a no.2 driver in the team. Certain comments from JV or Pollock could also have been interpreted the wrong way by Zonta, simply because we're dealing with completely different personalities here. As I said, the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Jacques is not a creep, and Zonta is not an angel.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by Tris
Did Ralf do a really better job than JV at Williams?

I think yes. Ralf had three podiums - two thirds and a second - whereas Villeneuve had two podiums - two thirds. Ralf also came closer to winning a race that year than Villeneuve did in 1998. The only thing Ralf hasn't done at Williams that Villeneuve did is win races and the championship, for the obvious reason that the car isn't good enough.

And Craig Pollock isn't American or Canadian, BTW. He's Scottish.

[Roy2]

chow wei hsien
Do you want your comments to be taken seriously? If so, you should bear in mind that unbalanced, one-sided diatribes like your's above can't be taken as the basis for serious discussion.

In sports where the merit of a performance can only be judged, figure skating for example, high scores and low scores are thrown out. JV doesn't have a car that he (or anyone) can win with yet. Either does any driver other than those who drive for McLaren or Ferrari and none of us can really know which team is the best of the rest.

We're all in a position where we have to judge a driver's merits, the merits of those who drive for McLaren and Ferrari no less that those who drive for the other teams. Your rating of Villenueve, because of it's bias and unfairness, your low score that is, deserves to be disregarded. It doesn't count IMO.

[Liz]

Pollock is not a Canadian.

And as Jacques has said himself, "In a class of 30 kids, some you will like and some you will not." The fact that all the ones he doesn't like are his teammates is interesting but could be just some kind of amazing coincidence.

On the basis of other things besides this particular interview, though, I believe Zonta means what he said...because I believe he is one of those men, like Gilles, who takes people for what they purport to be until they prove beyond doubt that they are not. At the beginning of his tenure at BAR, Zonta really and truly believed that Jacques and he would work together and that Jacques would help him. After two years he found out that was absolutely not true and as it did with Gilles, it hurt him very much. Remember how bitter Gilles was after Pironi betrayed him? That was because of his own honesty and his own ethos - and except for a few people at Ferrari, I don't recall anyone saying his attitude was "sour grapes" or anything worse.

Jacques is a good pilot, not a great one, but he is rapidly proving (at least what we see in public) that he is not a really pleassant human being. There is of course no law against that.

And as far as Panis' accident being "no big deal" remember this is said from someone who has never himself been a victim of a serious accident in which he was badly injured. It is easy to sneer at other peoples' misfortunes when you have no misfortunes yourself. The only way we'll see if his attitude is merely insensitivity to others' feelings (which I suspect it is) or ignorance will be if, God forbid, he ever suffers such an injury himself.

[Roy2]

Liz,
Are you ever going to quit mothering Zonta? If he really thought that Villenueve would work together with him and help him then he was being self-destructively naive. Zonta's goal would be, after all, to take that help and then beat Villenueve with it.

JV's modus operandi is and always was, to establish the best relationship possible with his engineer, and to keep everyone else at a distance. At Williams he had no reputation for sucking up to management to get an advantage over his team-mate. He kept Frenzen and Patrick Head, to the extent he could, at a distance, took his and his engineer's set-ups, and proceeded to trounce them both.

The relationship with Pollock is atypical of Villenueve, not typical. The man was his teacher, career manager, and friend, for goodness sakes. He's not going to treat him like Head or Green.

Any team-mate looking for succour from Villenueve is a baby asking to be sacrificed. Zonta, if he will let his experience at BAR teach him, will have learned a valuable lesson.

[Tris]

I think a lot of Jacques “stay away” attitude is an artefact of his early tenure with Williams where he was not allowed to go his own route with regards to set up. he had things forced on to him by Head and they did not work.

BAR was conceptualised by Pollack a(the Scott [t’anks for correcting me]) as “team Villeneuve” as far back as early 1997. Zonta must have realised that he would not get parity with regards to resources etc. However it was a chance for Zonta to join a team and work along side a former world champion. Villeneuve has a very odd set up strategy that does not work for other drivers.. If Zonta’s setting were based on Jacques’ settings the poor kid would have stood no chance.

Not sharing data is nothing new to F1.. Prost did not let Mansell see his data while they were together at Ferrari in 1990, I don’t see anyone whining about that on the boards..

[Tris]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl

I think yes. Ralf had three podiums - two thirds and a second - whereas Villeneuve had two podiums - two thirds. Ralf also came closer to winning a race that year than Villeneuve did in 1998. The only thing Ralf hasn't done at Williams that Villeneuve did is win races and the championship, for the obvious reason that the car isn't good enough.

[/B]

I see your point(s). However, what I am trying to say is that in relation to the other drivers I am saying that you can not compare the 1998 and the 1999 Willaims cars. First off the 1999 was totally different aerodynamically secondly they were running different tyres. Tyres are more critical than any other part of the car... they account for 75% of the performance of the car. A change in the tyres can spell a magic or disaster for a team. The switch to Bridgstone in 1998 was THE critical factor in McLaren's Championship not Newy. Williams went off the boil in the middle of the 1995 season because Goodyear changed the construction of the front tyres and it did not suit the car. You simply can not compare the 1998 and the 1999 Williams cars.

Ralf, to my mind did a better job in 1999 that I ever believed he would. The results show that Ralf had a better season in 1999 than Villeneuve did in 1998 but the results do not tell half the story.

[Liz]

Roy2 - sorry, probably not. I think the boy got a raw deal and I hope Eddie Jordan can get him back on track next year and he'll kick Jacques' butt when he gets back on the track again.

But if it's any comfort to you, I was just as adamant in defending Prost against Senna. It's my nature I guess.

[R]

Roy2, you wrote one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum in your last post. I think a brilliant analysis on Villeneuve and his relationship with team-mates.

[JayWay]

Liz,

I have read your posts on the Zonta/JV situation for quite a while now, and as Roy points out I think you are only viewing this situation with an overly sympathetic tint on Zonta. You treat him more like a baby then an F1 driver. You like to set the perception for others that Zonta was terribly screwed, and none of his bad preformances were his fault, and he never did anything wrong at BAR, and JV is just the evil villain, and that is the end of the story. The situation while somewhat resembling the scene you have managed to set, is really quite different in many ways. In 99 Pollock openly admitted that JV got everything in comparison to Zonta. This was done because of the innaugaural year of BAR. There was no coverup as you like to say. This in addition to Zonta being injured for a quarter of the year meant that in no way could the 99 season be judged for Zonta fairly. Thus I came into 2000 with the same outlook as many that Zonta had a clean slate.

But as it has turned out Zonta has been majorly dissapointing, and by no fault but his own. The BAR situation of 99 and 2000 is totally different. By equipment standards JV and Zonta got equal treatment. When Honda came in, a Honda worker was assigned the task of making sure Zonta got equal treatment, and it payed off, but it was not needed in reality (will touch on that later). This from an interview with Zonta early in the year.


"We share data, like in every team but he’s never going to explain, for example, how he does the first corner," the Brazilian continued. "thiss seems to be the norm in F1 it’s still difficult for me, being a rookie, to be teamed with him a world champion. It does seem normal for BAR to give him every opportunity to get the results, and not me. Compared to last year, it’s a lot better. I have almost the same level of car as he does and the same support, but, sometimes, I can feel that he still has more than me," Zonta commented."

Observations
1.Equal cars
2.Zonta disagrees with you about unfair treatment, even with the little #1 treatment Zonta gets he believes himself this is the norm.
3.One thing I have noticed about Zonta this year is he is a whiner. He comments that JV doesn't help him on how to take the turns. Zonta (much like Liz) has a babyish view of F1. He believes that his teammate should help him learn the turns as if he is not a professional., he needs to be held by the hand and taught like a baby (like he is treated here) how to drive? This is what he thinks?

In a radio interview in Montreal shortly after the season, JV pretty much summed the same ideas I had up, and confirmed what Zonta said. In fact, when JV is made out to be the bad guy who screws Zonta over, the truth is, if it were not for JV, Zonta would have it alot worse. It was thanks to JV's honesty that Zonta got equal treatment, Pollock hates Zonta, and it is true that JV has everything at his disposal, but unlike other drivers, JV didn't make use of it. Zonta was lucky to be in a harsh situation like BAR but have a teammate like JV.
This from Mtl'78's post at Atlas

"On Zonta and status in the team.

He said that there were NO #1. and #2. at BAR. He gave specific examples of situations where he could have called for superior support but didn't. The best example was with BAR's Japan engines. They had 2 ready at Indy, which meant that JV could have used 1 at Indy and the other in Japan, because they would not be able to produce more in time for Japan, he didn't use one at Indy and they both used one at Japan.

He spoke about his relatioship with Zonta. He said that he actually liked Zonta, but that his joining BAR was a mistake from day 1. He said that a young driver like him should do a year of testing first. That he (JV) did not have the time or inclkination to be his "teacher", that he had FULL access to JV's telemetry and setup info, but that his driving was his own. He said that every driver has his own secrets and that he shouldn't hva te to tell another F1 driver how to drive. No one told him how to drive when he joined. About their "falling out" at Hockenheim, he said that he felt sorry for him, that this was one of the only times Zonta was faster than JV, but he really messed up big by knocking JV out of the points and then messing it up for himself as well. His criticism of Zonta was deserved in his opinion and Ricardo should have taken it like a man instead of crying to the press that nobody liked him."

Just as I had predicted long before this interview about Zontas whining and his screwed up view on F1 that he should be breast fed.

Also on Zontas preformances. It was no faults but Zonta. When Zonta came to BAR, the BAR team made the comment that Zonta has the problem that he can not step up when it counts. In testing with no pressure, he is very fast, but then they arrive for the Grand Prix weekend, and he shows nothing that he did at the track. Zontas bonehead moves at Hockenheim, and pushing off MS, and nearly pushing off MS again at Suzuka, shows that away from BAR and his silly excuses, he is a very immature driver who has alot of growing to do. Early in 2000, once again Zonta disagrees with you Liz, that the team has no affect on his preformance, that it is up to him and his faultering preformances to gain respect. He said in an interview as shown here that it is not unfair treatment, but he should have to prove himself, which at the time he didn't, and as of now failed to do while at BAR.

"Q: We know that Jacques is a clear number one, so how difficult is it to cope with that situation?
"Of course he is the first driver and has more support than me, but if I cannot show my potential in qualifying, how can I say I am faster than him? I should improve my qualifying and then I should be at the same level as him."

So as you all can see it is a much different situation. Maybe you should be thanking Jacques for giving Ricardo, who is naive to the brink about what F1 is like (help me daddy I need help on how to drive) the same treatment in a team that has many people who doesn't like Zonta and who did not care to give him equal treatment.

Blame Ricardo for his preformances, all his F1 career he has had the luzury of these excuses which are false, it's time that you and him both faced facts, seems Ricardo has, but you, I don't think so.

Ralfs girl,

How can you compare the 98 Williams to the 99 Williams. The 98 Williams chassis was almost as bad as the 99, Patrick Head in an interview said that the thing was the worst chassis that Williams in his experience had ever produced and that it's grip level was so low that it was near impossible to drive to the limit because it never gave even a hint of when it would lose grip yet JV still made some incredible qualifying preformances with it that stunned his crew as told by Billy at DailyF1 (he has the quotes I do not) and finished best of the rest. The 99 Williams was a HUGE improvment, it was one of the best.

In 2000 Ralf has driven very well, but he has been the beneficiary of attrition. His podiums have been due to the leaders falling out. On track it is near impossible to compare Ralf and JV this year because they were nearly never on the track together without one not having problems affecting there result, but JV proved to be the best of the rest this year when attrition was not a factor. Notice that JV has more 4th places then anyone this year, showing that when the Macs and Ferraris are not out he was the next fastest. And unlike Ralf who did not outrace the Ferraris or Macs once, JV was on pace to do it twice. In Montreal JV held off Mika and Rubens, until it rained and JV's pit screwed him over. And at Imola JV was in 3rd in front of Coulthard and was on pace for 2nd if not for his engine failing. At Hockenheim looking at Zontas pace after he punted Villeneuve, JV was very likely to be on pace for a podium.

You see stats do not tell all.

In qualifying though it was no match. JV never should have gotten so close to Ralf. Ralf drove the 3rd best chassis (maybe 2nd) in F1 with one of the better engines (just overweight). JV drove one of the worst chassis's with one of the best engines. The fact JV continuatly ran the BAR at minimal downforce in the races showed how bad the BAR chassis was, and you put two and two together. JV qualifying right by or infront of Ralf under regular downforce, then having to revert to minimal downforce for the race, shows how JV qualified a bad chassis so well. There is no contest.

[Liz]

Hey, if you notice the first post that started this thread, I said that I was quoting a paricular interview in a particular magazine. And I have a few other sources that I am not going to tell you. But if you'll remember the way Frenzy raced when he was at Williams racing with Jacques, and how he was called useless and worthless by Patrick Head and Frank Williams said he couldn't believe anyone would ever want to hire him again - and the next year with Jordan he was blinding. Not because over the winter he had magically been transformed into a radically different pilot. The change came when he wasn't being beaten up every day of his life by his team. That doesn't mean he was a sissybaby or needed toughening up; just means that some people react one way to being chucked into the deep end on his own, and some people react the opposite way. You would not treat Ralfie the same way you'd treat Frenzy, for example; one is much tougher than the other, but both are extremely good pilots in the right team.

Zonta is the same way. In my opinion. And time will tell.

[JayWay]

Frentzen is a panzy because Villeneuve came into the same hostile enviroment in 96 against Hill. When JV came in Patric Head did not like JV, him and JV constantly had arguments over setup and JV has said many times that he got no moral support and no extra help as a young driver and says if he didn't have the fight he did, it could have ruined his career. Thats the difference between JV and RZ and HHF. RZ and HHF have no one to blame but themselves. The inferior equipment arguments doesn't hold up, and the fact that RZ is now all bitter, and biting the hand that fed him (JV) shows that he is a whiner.

Btw I think HHF was overrated in 99, the Jordan was vastly underrated due to Hill. What has HHF done this year? Hes had his pace matched by a driver in his first year with the team who has half the experience. If HHF was a championship contendor last year, I guess Trulli could very well be world champion.

[JayWay]

Hhhmmm. I overreacted with the term panzy, I take that back, but this board has a stupid rule that you can't edit after 5 minutes.

[Tris]

Hi JayWay

Actually I find it funny that Head was so anti Villeneuve until Hungaroring in 1996 when he suddenly was transformed into the team’s second favourite driver after Alan Jones. I was flabbergasted by JV at Canada this year. I had not seen him go so well in the wet!

The 1998 Williams was screwed anyway as Goodyear gave up on the team and put all their resources behind Ferrari and developed the tires that would win the championship for Ferrari. The 98 Ferrari worked it’s tires much harder than the 98 Williams and thus the Williams could not generate enough heat in them to get good grip. It did not help that the FW20 had the drag coefficient of a brick! I still maintain that Ferrari would have won the Championship in 1998 if McLaren had not switched to Bridgestone. I mean in 1997 the Prost was a car that could have challenged for the championship, largely due to Bridgestone rubber.

What I find intriguing is that Zonta kicked Montoya’s ass in F3000. I am a HUGE Montoya fan and I will not disguise the fact, I hope he lives up to the hype. Zonta was pretty dominant in F3000 due to his car advantage. I believe Zonta is like Barichello in that he needs to be mollycoddled in order to perform.

[Liz]

Take a look at Autosport.com F1 - there's another little comment by Zonta on the same subject.

I think it's okay to prefer the tougher-skinned pilots like Ralf and Jacques, but calling the more sensitive types "pansies" is a bit much. (I'm glad you took back that word, thanks.) They are just another kind of pilot who need handling in another way.