[WEC] BR1 Dallara LMP1

[Victor_RO]

Dragonspeed will use the BR1 in the 2018-19 season. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...1-assault.html Sounds like it will run an uprated Gibson V8.

[Canada ALMS fan]

^Great news! Nice to see all the privateers that are stepping up to LMP1 after the manufacturers have left. Having a quasi-spc P2 is ruleset is surely helping too. Nice to see folks still want to race in class with bespoke cars.

[Victor_RO]

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

Yeah basically it should be a fuel flow updated version of the engine used in the old ginetta gz09s. Can't remember released figures, but in 2008 or 2009 it was something like 630hp @ 9500 or 10000rpm and about 580Nm.

Good to them if they have been able to throw out reliabile 700hp from a so small unit.

[canaglia]

Anyway given by the fact that BR1 is a slightly modified dallara lmp2, hope that rebellion too may follow this route with an oreca 07 chassis powered by this 4.5L V8.

So what's about next year lmp1 so far?

x2 toyota
x1 CLM (not confirmed yet but likely)
x1 manor ginetta
x1 dragonspeed BR1
x1 SMP BR1

Rumored
x1 second manor ginetta
x1-x2 another ginetta team

Unlikely rumors
x1 oreca lmp1 effort

[Turbodcc]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Anyway given by the fact that BR1 is a slightly modified dallara lmp2, hope that rebellion too may follow this route with an oreca 07 chassis powered by this 4.5L V8.

So what's about next year lmp1 so far?

x2 toyota
x1 CLM (not confirmed yet but likely)
x1 manor ginetta
x1 dragonspeed BR1
x1 SMP BR1

Rumored
x1 second manor ginetta
x1-x2 another ginetta team

Unlikely rumors
x1 oreca lmp1 effort

No SMP ran BR1. It is x2 ART GP ran BR1, as tested in Aragon this week.

[canaglia]

Excuse me, explain better, I can't understand who runs who.

[Turbodcc]

The actual BR Engineering entry in LMP1 next season, not the customer supplied chassis (Dragonspeed), will be ran by ART GP at the track. The latest testing they conducted was at Aragon this week.

[Akrapovic]

Isn't it both ART and SMP?

[Turbodcc]

Yes it is a bit confusing. There appears to be an SMP element, but with ART GP looking after the car, AER looking after the engines, I would imagine a third team being involved could be difficult. Will be interesting to see how it runs. I believe testing so far has been very positive.

[canaglia]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/d...ibson-for-wec/

so what about dragonspeed? is ART who will manage and run the car for them?

[TF110]

I think we should give them more credit than saying it's a slightly modified Dallara lmp2 chassis also. The differences are big if you look closer at the car. It's hard to spot with the bare carbon color but the roof is different, the splitter and front nose is different, the sidepods, the rear wing etc. That's just bodywork, underneath the car I'm sure is hugely different as well. Plus lmp1's run different dimensions in terms of length. I like this little touch with the headlights!

[Turbodcc]

Originally Posted by canaglia

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/d...ibson-for-wec/

so what about dragonspeed? is ART who will manage and run the car for them?

No, dragonspeed will be running their own car.

I think what is confusing people is the BR Engineering entry itself which comprises of ARTGP, AER, and SMP being the russian team element I guess. BR Engineering then appear to be also selling customer cars, with the customer then free to select their own engine and ran as they please.

[helgi]

I've read in Racecar Engineering, Dallara built their LMP2 chassis firstly for DPi - so it should be bulletproof and rather heavy. I think they could not just modify aerokit and bolt AER-kettle on. The monocoque should be new.
PS Looks strange a bit. Don't think they can retain coloured front lights.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Actually, as it turns out, the Gibson V8 is an all-new engine:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/1...p1-engine.html

4.5 liters.

(Resurrection of the old Zytek pre-2011 LMP1 engine?)

Originally Posted by canaglia

Yeah basically it should be a fuel flow updated version of the engine used in the old ginetta gz09s. Can't remember released figures, but in 2008 or 2009 it was something like 630hp @ 9500 or 10000rpm and about 580Nm.

Good to them if they have been able to throw out reliabile 700hp from a so small unit.

I think this is great to see some more engine variety, but the DSC article seems to say it is based on the current P2 not the old engine:

he Gibson GL458 engine is a 4.5 litre development of the UK-based company’s highly successful ‘global’ LMP2 spec 4.2 litre V8

[TF110]

Originally Posted by helgi

I've read in Racecar Engineering, Dallara built their LMP2 chassis firstly for DPi - so it should be bulletproof and rather heavy. I think they could not just modify aerokit and bolt AER-kettle on. The monocoque should be new.
PS Looks strange a bit. Don't think they can retain coloured front lights.

Strange? That looks wonderful imo! Nice branding there even in the headlight cluster. I hope they can keep it as long as the main lights are white.

[canaglia]

Is quite unclear the meaning of that sentence (english isn't my main language)

BTW mystery solved:

SMP will field 2 AER powered BR1, managed and ran by ART GP apparently
dragonspeed will field a single gibson powered BR1.

[helgi]

Besides, are there any photos of AER P60 aside from dailysportscar review (the review itself is great but there's only one photo there)? I think I've read an article about current AER engines, but can not remember where. Were there any deep analysis in Japanese Autosport? Kanji is not a problem for me with my translator) I'm interested in precise turbo location. And those louvres in the bottom of sidepods look similar to first iterations of Lotus/CLM01. Should be interesting to see, how cooling system actually works there.

[bentley speed 8]

Nice little detail with the lights there!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TF110

Strange? That looks wonderful imo! Nice branding there even in the headlight cluster. I hope they can keep it as long as the main lights are white.

That was the first thing I noticed, and actually like it. I think tuned enough to not be too blinding at night with the blue, something I wish Georgia cops understood, they should be allowed to keep it. Although I'm guessing as bright as headlights have gotten it might disappear against the white headlights.

[Akrapovic]

I wonder if that idea could be expanded on a bit? Could you have LMP1 with white, but red highlights, LMP2 with white and blue highlights, etc. So you knew what kind of car was approaching you from behind?

[Mike E]

They look like pitlane lights to me.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by joeb

I think this is great to see some more engine variety, but the DSC article seems to say it is based on the current P2 not the old engine:

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by knighty

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

Actually aer p60 is a quite high rev engine despite being twin turbo.
In 2015-2016 in the back of rebellion, drivers shifted up close to 8000rpm.
Engine was however powerful and had a good fuel miliage overall (the usual stint window of about 40-45 minutes, can't remember if it was a 75L fuel tank or larger). If the power target will be raised up to 700hp, guess will be required a larger fuel tank.
Gibson, no matter if a updated old 4.5 or modified more recent 4.2, will need to rev up close if not over 10000rpm. Of coure could be required a larger fuel tank as well (or maybe not.... cadillac dpi this year started with a 75L fuel tank and received a 64L nerf.... but however kept the same fuel milliage for some unknwon reason).

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by knighty

Hmmmm......I think dragonspeed are being incredibly brave with the gibson LMP1 engine.....ironically they won LMP2 at lemans a few years back with a turbo V6 Honda engine,there is no logical reasoning to link high revving NA engine to finishing and reliability.....does not add up for me, but none the less it will be interesting to compare with the AER unit in the same chassis. I dont expect the fuel consumption to be great.

The gibson 4.5 will need a direct injection conversion to be competitive, so thats new heads and pistons straight away, and a lot of development time, so to get all that ready and reliable for the start of the WEC season is already tight in terms of timing.

Was waiting to hear you chime in on the engine plan with Gibson. And BR's choice of the AERs, great power but seems like they run a LOT hotter than others but with their own chassis specific cooling needs can be designed in from the start. I haven't had a chance to read the DSC article about it and their plans, stupid network times out on DSC every time here at work. But your insight does help those of us without deep engine knowledge and is always looked forward to.