Fireproof embroidery

[Notso Swift]

Al didn't mean the sewing tech, meant the fabric tech, which (as I said) nobody really has a disticnt advantage with (that I am aware of) since the last "revolution" with lightweight fabrics a couple of years ago.

Midgetman, I didn't mean to sound harsh, but only based on my limited experiences. They seem to be on top of the requirements for a custom job.

(In my case they came back with a question on my measurements, looking at the ratio of my arms/legs and the body length, just to check I didn’t get a case of “split testimonials”, but nope, I am that gangly! That, and the final product, demonstrated to me that they were on top of their game, where with “another” they just seemed to throw my measurements out and build what they wanted to, may as well gone off the shelf, as you can imagine it was returned)

[Al Weyman]

I think we are talking in crossed purposes here Notso, I have no intention of stocking and selling race suits, way out of my financial league and my knowledge of the subject and the amount of different stuff I currently do the shop is already bursting with equipment so no space either. No I am talking about modifying people's existing suits. I can supply a mean waterproof orange marshal's suit though for a good price printed or plain. :-)

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

What temp does petrol burn at??

and a 3 lay suit is good for what, 20 secs of buring petrol?

The FIA test looks at 2 things: the fabric must be self extinguishing when flame is removed and the complete structure must prevent second degree burns on the skin for 12 seconds (IIRC), so not as long as you thought.

Natch, the thicker the fabric and the more layers there are the greater the insulating properties. However, if doused in petrol fabrics will support flame like a candle wick until the petrol has burnt off. It'll probably soak into the fabric and so petrol will be burning on your arm.

A few years ago the previous owner of AWS had a petrol-impervious fabric, but it all faded away. One of my suppliers is making a complete suit from the wonder fabric CarbonX, which'll have stunning properties.

Unfortunately, trying to get the burn times out of manufacturers is like getting state secrets and that is appalling. The FIA should publish the information so we can make informed choice on protection vs cost. It strikes me if someone doesn't tell you something then they have something to hide.

FWIW my (thick 3L) suits were around 23 seconds before 2nd degree burns, a 2-layer normally only staggers through the 12 second level. But I don't know for sure.

Best form of protection: prevention!

[AU N EGL]

I understand. 12 and 23 sec does not seem like a long time.

One of the tests that some of the tech stations do, which is required, is to time how long it takes a fully suited and helmeted driver to get out of the car.

This is to simulat a car that has caught fire.

Pull the fire switch, turn the cam lock, open the door and dive out over the door bars and roll on the ground.


I have a Carbon-X Cool Suit top. It is very comfortable even without the water flowing.

I use a FIA 2L and nomex bottom underware and Nomex or Carbon-X top under my suit

[Alex Hodgkinson]

On the topic of having to have a new suit manufactured, I have just agreed a deal to become the official importer of MIR Racewear in the UK. (The MIR kart racewear importer is Simpson Motorsport, nothing to do with me.)

I can supply fully customised suits from £400, top quality. Photos of suits can be supplied on asking.

[AU N EGL]

Al

I was just watching a rebroad cast of the Hungarian F1. I noticed many of the drivers have the Iron on or heat transfers with sponsors names on their Nomex undershirts.

That would be nice to have some to put on the undershirts, for those bloody hot days.

Tom

[Al Weyman]

They may have been screen printed or if a high polyester content then they could be dye sublimation transfers which is a great system on white garments.

[Notso Swift]

Or they could be "fake" suits for media purposes. Are you refering to the press conferances or on the grid?

(Mind you, I do not even know if they have "fakes", just that they change for media)

[Piglet]

At risk of swerving off topic Do any of you nice folks do custom print tshirts in fairly low multiples (like 4!) from a .jpeg or something similar?

[Alan Cherry]

Originally Posted by Piglet

At risk of swerving off topic Do any of you nice folks do custom print tshirts in fairly low multiples (like 4!) from a .jpeg or something similar?

If Al can't help ( we should support our own ) try www.photobox.co.uk - they do them.

Going back on topic - does anyone know how I can get a spoonsor so that I need to sew badges on my overalls ?

[Alan Cherry]

Spoonser !!!!! being able to spell might help

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Notso Swift

Or they could be "fake" suits for media purposes. Are you refering to the press conferances or on the grid?

(Mind you, I do not even know if they have "fakes", just that they change for media)

Not Fake suits as you could see the top of the suits arms tied about their waists.

It was the undergarmet ( nomex) with sponsors names imprinted on. So when the drivers walk around the Cameras and spectators could still see who the the sponsors are.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I. . . This is to simulat a car that has caught fire.

Pull the fire switch, turn the cam lock, open the door and dive out over the door bars and roll on the ground.
. . .

I find that a bit scary in that things are in the wrong order if your car is on (serious) fire. Get out first and then start messing around with switches if you feel like it.

Regards

Jim

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JimW

I find that a bit scary in that things are in the wrong order if your car is on (serious) fire. Get out first and then start messing around with switches if you feel like it.

Regards

Jim

Jim
The Extinguiser switch is within reach of your hand. Pull the darn thing as soon as the car stops. OR PULL it as soon as the fire is detected and get your car as far off the track as possible. Then dive out.

Dont want to go BACK in your car TO PULL THE SWITCH.

Mine is with in 3" of my gear shift leaver and right hand, when my harness are sinched down tight.

Never had to use it. Thank you very much

Tom

[JimW]

Nothing of what you describe is a serious fire. In that case get the **** out of there.

Jim

[AU N EGL]

Suit yourself Jim.

Drivers know saftey procautions and pulling the extinguisher handle is the #1 then get out is #2. Of course when one is paniced they do strange things.

Tom

[MGDavid]

I'm with Tom - it's quicker to pull the switch than decide whether the fire is serious or NOT
As an aside, I'm having a little difficulty imagining a non-serious fire in a racing car. And I have BTDT, fortunately the 'smoke' from the 'fire' turned out to be dust - but the foam laid it flat anyway.

[Al Weyman]

I will do you low runs Piglet, I have a number of options I can offer depending on what you have in mind, PM me your requirements.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Alan Cherry

Spoonser !!!!! being able to spell might help

WHich reminds me of an off topic story, I actually had a picture of my old Camaro going very sideways at Brands printed in Autosport a few years a ago and across the screen for the world to see I had written 'SPONSER WANTED' Duh! And me a printer & signmaker!

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Drivers know saftey procautions and pulling the extinguisher handle is the #1 then get out is #2. Of course when one is paniced they do strange things.

Depends what happens.
If all of the sudden (within 1 or 2 seconds) the inside of your car is completely engulfed in flames, you will want to get out asap.
I know I wanted, but couldn't as the car was still rolling. Knew where the switch was, couldn't find it because I had to close my eyes because of the heat and hold my breath, luckily somehow managed to pull my visor down.
Result: no facial burns, only the arm and hand were badly burnt.

And believe me, I did not panic. Managed to find the nearest bottle and put the fire out before my fellow marshals arrived. I did park a bit out of the way because of that blind pull off.

[AU N EGL]

Dang Eddy

Sorry to hear about your fire. Glad you did not get burned.

I still believe having the fire handle within reach, even with you eyes closed is important.

Pull the handle and get out. If you cant find the handle get the puck out.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I will do you low runs Piglet, I have a number of options I can offer depending on what you have in mind, PM me your requirements.

Thanks Al, need to get a design sorted and then I'll be in touch. Cheers.

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Glad you did not get burned.

But I did, I did.
It was a long time ago that one, before proper 2 or 3 layer racing suits.
Only after the fire was put out by myself (I parked a bit daft between posts as I was in a bit of a hurry), I realised the fire did get me.

This resulted in a nearly 6 months "holiday" for me. And a bit of with my former bosses as they did not like my racing.
Since that day I have been very keen on safety.

[Adam Ruddle]

Just to add my 2p, at Goodwood Revival there are a couple of women sitting in the drivers signing on area stiching your (mandatory) Goodwood badge onto your nomex if you ask then to. Not sure if material or technique were FIA approved but had already come up with own solution:- Iron on 'Bond-Wed' adhesive. Only used a small amount so don't really think it constituted risk to self (?) and after a run through a hot washing machine badge comes off and adhesive is gone.
My own flame experience was in a clubmans car (motor next to legs) when the motor threw a rod and let all the oil out of the sump which then run into the cockpit (floor and blukhead bent by escaping rod) and caught fire so I was in a nice flame bath. Good luck for me that oil burns cold and only took a few seconds to pull over and hop out. Normal exit involved removal of steering wheel and wriggling, this time got out in no time at all with wheel still in place (never could maange same trick again!).
Adam

[Al Weyman]

I think that would have rendered the overalls useless unless what I have been told and what has been peviously said here is completly wrong and may well be :-)