The scanner mega-thread

[Flagman]

I have heard the apocryphal story of the red flag so many times. I've also seen flaggers pickup the red flag by mistake

The stories aren't all apocryphal...

I do not have an issue with flag marshal using a scanner as such - what I do have an issue with is those who let listening to the scanner interfere with their flagging.

As an example - A few years ago I was flagging at the Esses at Mallory Park with someone using a scanner - at one point he was so interested it what was being said that he completly missed a 5 car accident in our sector.

Ok so you can put it down to the guy being a prat - BUT - if that can happen when he is on the yellow - what confidence does it give you that he will see anything coming towards us when he is on the blue and is supposed to be in a position to warn me of danger when I'm on the yellow...

[scorch]

I think we have hit an interesting point about distraction on the circuit.
Scanners can be essential in some circumstances but can be dangerous in others.

What are people's feelings about the other common distractions? ie. radios, mobile phones, camera's etc...

[Piglet]

/[on soapbox} No Marshal on duty should ever be seen with a camera, anyone caught with one should have his/her arms cut off....

At Spa last year (sorry any marshals from Belgium) I saw marshals in the middle of the grid with video cameras and normal cameras whilst the cars were forming up on the grid (not F1) - volunteers or not we are there as professionals to do a professional job.../[off soapbox]

[chezza]

I think that although scanners can be a good idea some of the things that are said aren't for everybody's ears and also if the marshals need to know anything then the IO will tell them.

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally posted by chezza
I think that although scanners can be a good idea some of the things that are said aren't for everybody's ears and also if the marshals need to know anything then the IO will tell them.

Yeah, this is the reason Combe have had their fairly harsh policy on scanners. They have relaxed their policy a bit this year but ask that where they are used, they are used with great descretion and switched off or used with an earpiece when within earshot of public or competitors, which I personally feel the sensible approach.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by scorch
What are people's feelings about the other common distractions? ie. radios, mobile phones, camera's etc...

At a recent meeting I had a marshal on post with me who continuously had her mobile to her ear. After a couple of sessions, I reiterated my morning briefing.......no mobiles except between sessions, provided that duties had been carried out first!
She kept taking calls throughout the morning and I aksed the IO to talk with her again.
After lunch just before racing commenced I had to (For the very first time in my role as an observer)take her to one side and point out the dangers to her and others and that I would ask her to leave post if the darned thing rang again.

Another distraction (Same day, same marshal)the "Family" turned up for the afternoon. All through racing there were cries of "Mum, can I have an Ice-Cream - Mum can I have......"
I took the unpleasant steps of reporting her to the Chief Marshal. Had I have had enough marshals on post I would probably have had her stood down.

[sss]

Originally posted by observer

Another distraction (Same day, same marshal)the "Family" turned up for the afternoon. All through racing there were cries of "Mum, can I have an Ice-Cream - Mum can I have......"
I took the unpleasant steps of reporting her to the Chief Marshal. Had I have had enough marshals on post I would probably have had her stood down.

surely if it was 'that' dangerous she should have been stood down straight away, by not standing her down are you not saying that it is acceptable or aiding the crime?

as for mobiles, what about people who are on call during the weekend at the end of a phone, do we ban them from marshalling in the likely hood that they may get a call.

[DarrellB]

I have had someone who thought it would be a good idea to get some photos of the F3s on their first lap of the second race at Combe. He looked very disgruntled when I told him to put it away, so I asked if he saw the collision in the first race and when he said no it explained my reasons. On rescue we have used mobiles at incidents in the past for confidential conversations wtih race control and it is a very useful way of dealing directly those in charge.

[Tony_J]

There's a clear distinction between someone on-call and takes a single call and has to leave of his/her own accord and the obvious liability of those who can't/wont detach themselves from a phone. I for one would strongly question their application and suitability for the task

[Tony_J]

Flagman whilst I accept your point of view I have also seen flaggers so busy talking to each other that they've missed the obvious as well

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by sss
surely if it was 'that' dangerous she should have been stood down straight away, by not standing her down are you not saying that it is acceptable or aiding the crime?

Not as bad as a barbecue, though, is it?

[sss]

cant comment as i didnt see it from old hall

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by sss
cant comment as i didnt see it from old hall

I didn't see it from Clay Hill, but I heard about it......

[pixie]

You could see it from Hilltop and smell it from the startline .......

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by pixie
You could see it from Hilltop and smell it from the startline .......

If the allegations are true it ain't a barbie you can smell on the startline!

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by sss
surely if it was 'that' dangerous she should have been stood down straight away, by not standing her down are you not saying that it is acceptable or aiding the crime?

No!
As with most Donington meetings, the marshal in question was the ONLY incident marshal on post except the IO, so it was one of those situations when I could have been left with no marshalling team.

As for mobiles, what about people who are on call during the weekend at the end of a phone, do we ban them from marshalling in the likely hood that they may get a call.

I would expect a marshal who may have to be called away to inform both the Chief at Sign-on and me when arriving on post.

[sss]

Originally posted by observer
[B]No!
As with most Donington meetings, the marshal in question was the ONLY incident marshal on post except the IO, so it was one of those situations when I could have been left with no marshalling team.

B]

sorry to go a little off thread and playing devils advocate, but whilst the number of marshals you have on post will vary from post to post, at which stage should the IO say im not playing with this number as its not safe, thats the only way organisers may get to do something to encourage marshals. or do run with such a few and just keep asking for a race stoppage at every opportunity to clear up?

[JimW]

Amazing how discussion spreads.

Two offerings.

For circuit frequencies see the thread on this forum called, I think, Frequencies. Then try a search on frequency for the forum overall. Then try the http://www.marshalspost.com/circuits.php for some circuit specific information (and don't forget to feed back new or corrected information). Then try Google. Lots of information (of variable quality/age) around.

When observing and the flag point is some way away (other side of the circuit or Lodge in for example) I give the flag marshal one of these personal radios and we can then discuss things quietly rather than making a spectacle of us shouting or employing arcane hand signals.

And, yes, I personally always have a scanner so as to be informed.

Regards

Jim

[Chigley]

at which stage should the IO say im not playing with this number as its not safe,

That's a bit difficult when you are single handed on post, acting as observer, flag, I/O and incident plus having no comms; then a scanner is essential and a good set of hand signals to communiate with the next undermanned post who did have a phone working. Circuit: Snetterton - Bombhole In a few years ago.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by JimW


When observing and the flag point is some way away.....I give the flag marshal one of these personal radios and we can then discuss things quietly rather than making a spectacle of us shouting or employing arcane hand signals.

I too have adopted that way of thinking after flagging for you at Knickerbrook. I managed to "Aquire" a pair of Binatone Hand-held radio's and they are perfect for this situation!

[Chigley]

Now people, all this talk about scanners will cause undue distress and alarm to those good people at the MSA and certain top officals resulting in them losing night's of sleep.
We all know that being good boys and gals we aren't allowed to use scanners just in case we hear things that we shouldn't. Personally I prefer to use a one-way variable frequency receiver.

[JimW]

Interesting. Can you quote where the Thrush HQ standard confusion rules (sometimes known as the Blue book) say this.

(Of course if the BB was available on-line on a decent website I look it up in an instant.)

Regards

Jim

[Teletubby]

I think that the rules have now been relaxed regarding the use of scanners by marshals, on the basis that most speccies have one anyway!!!!

[Stevespurr]

i bought two ALINCO DJ-X3 scanners last year from Maplins in Manchester. they are a very compact scanner do most things and where reasonably priced about £140 each they also fit nicely into your overall top pocket.

[PVDA]

Just to keep this off topic...........

Yes the "Red Flag Story" is true I was there (it wasn't me 'cos I made sure the starter put his Red out before I did).

The problem is the human element, like must accidents are caused by a mechanical failure of the nut behind the wheel, some people cant absorb too much info at once. One crew member was sprung by me monitoring race team frequencies instead of the "normal" RC stuff so no wonder he was distracted. (also realise that I wasn't an official at Bathurst during the earlier mention in this thread of me monitoring race team frequencies)

Here in Aust IO's (Sector Marshalls) are non existant at most events, the senior Flaggie takes on the "role" of post chief without the radio or real power that goes with it, and many posts don't have comms of any type so info transfer is non existant to the poor buggers out there.

Mobile phones are also banned for similar reasons scanners are UNLESS it's a back up to the primary comms (cable loop or radio) or of course for "private" transfer of info to RC.

Another thing, if your on call you should be at home not trackside at a race meeting because you cant just drop everything and P off in the middle of an event. Better the meeting starts down on numbers than try and fill the gap 4 hours later.

Personally I have my mobile in my bag turned on, if I hear it ring I wait until I'm not on point and check the message they should've left.

And yes I'm a scanner owner who faught tooth and nail when the ban was brought in to try and over turn it but was out numbered by non owners at the time.