|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
18 Apr 2012, 13:26 (Ref:3061496) | #26 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,821
|
back on topic (!) - almost as many definitions as people
- one definition espoused by some is App K = historic, everything else = rubbish - another is the 25 year rule, previously mentioned. - Another might take a lead from FIA rules - IIRC a GpN homologation (for example) is valid for 8 (?) years after cessation of production; so once the current Hom runs out, it's historic. Are the CSCC Future Classics historic or 'might be historic one day'? |
||
__________________
a salary slave no more... |
18 Apr 2012, 15:13 (Ref:3061535) | #27 | ||||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 112
|
Quote:
Quote:
Having said that, I also love reading about and watching 50's 60's and 70's cars. There are only few cars from the racing series of the 1980's and 90's that I have any interest in. |
||||
__________________
I'm opinionated - That's all you need to know. |
18 Apr 2012, 15:35 (Ref:3061545) | #28 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,523
|
Quote:
|
||
|
18 Apr 2012, 16:53 (Ref:3061571) | #29 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,628
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
18 Apr 2012, 19:34 (Ref:3061650) | #30 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 61
|
Won't they have all rusted away by then? the Alfas...
|
||
|
18 Apr 2012, 20:01 (Ref:3061671) | #31 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
|
Quote:
The 'contemporay classic/historic' would be a Mk something Escort or an early Focus. Or early Mondeo. Did anyone race a Mk1 Mondeo in period outside the BTCC and its national equivalents? I'm a huge Ford fan for many reasons. After a couple of starter minis I moved to a Mk1 Escort GT and tried to stick with Ford products wherever possible for private and company car schemes. But when leggy executive clubs on wheels came calling GM was the only way to go if avoising the Merc/BMW image and prices. Nevertheless Historic saloon cars based mostly in Focus and Mondeo, good though those cars may have been in the road market, does not make me salivate in anticipation for track use. Perversely, perhaps, the Alfas just might. |
||
|
19 Apr 2012, 18:57 (Ref:3062201) | #32 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,718
|
I agree GrantP . .biggest problem for me is where the oomph goes . . .I will not tolerate FWD in anything ( although my mini van was a laugh, if a little small for certain tasks )
doesn't give one much choice these days |
|
|
19 Apr 2012, 19:18 (Ref:3062210) | #33 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
|
Quote:
A friend called me one day to say that another mutual pal, scootering back from Devon, had broken down near a pub a Ringwood and was there any chance of collecting him? I picked up my friend and we headed for Ringwood, found the pub, the rider and the scooter, managed to get both of the latter in the back of the van and returned to Pirbright all in one piece, scooter and 6ft+ rider in the back of the van. On which basis I can't imagine what sort of important tasks a minivan might be too small for ... |
||
|
19 Apr 2012, 19:26 (Ref:3062219) | #34 | |
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
|
Actually there may be exceptions to this tolerance.
Mrs. grantp had a Citroen ZX TD at one point that had rather good handling and was as much fun as a RWD car in many ways. That was eventually replaced with a 1.8 petrol Xsara that, whilst lacking brakes when question's were asked as it aged, could be steered on the throttle with ease. Would have been great fun on the track (except for the brakes) had we kept it. The Pug 306 was, afaik, the same basic chassis set up and has a good 'track' reputation. |
|
|
19 Apr 2012, 19:31 (Ref:3062221) | #35 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,628
|
I recall in my Metro days being invited to see the CoC at Donington. Apparently he thought my constant two wheeled approach to Gerrards was over zealous. I suggested that I was only using one less wheel than normal.
Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk |
||
|
19 Apr 2012, 19:33 (Ref:3062222) | #36 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,718
|
I had a 307 HD, Co. car, I tried so hard to kill it, but couldn't, didn't have enough oomph to get to the tree
I'm 6'3" . . . add 5'10" blonde . . . got a flat instead, and upgraded to a brunnette |
|
|
19 Apr 2012, 19:42 (Ref:3062231) | #37 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,523
|
My son had a 306, 2.0 HDI thingy, I used it to do my race licence and they are indeed a super handling wee car. Unfortunately I spun it on the twisty bit with the instructor on board. He ordered me to drive straight back to the pits! (although he did give me my licence )
|
|
|
19 Apr 2012, 20:13 (Ref:3062253) | #38 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,303
|
Liked Claires comment. Historic....anything ceased or had a facelift...yes..a few ex wives came to mind let alone MK1 Escorts!
Last edited by djinvicta; 19 Apr 2012 at 20:14. Reason: I cant booldy spell xx |
||
|
19 Apr 2012, 20:51 (Ref:3062273) | #39 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,874
|
I had a ZX TD 3 door. I loved it! I reckon it would three wheel regularly oodles of low down grunt, but ran out of revs a 4500. Great fun!
|
||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
19 Apr 2012, 21:53 (Ref:3062302) | #40 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
|
Quote:
Yep, but it's a diesel and they do that. Dreadful 'off the line' on a junction or roundabout but over about 20mph or taking a line of non-overtakers on an A road - magic. It about matched the 24V Senator auto I had around the same time - maybe even better up to about 80 if you pushed it. Had to drive it like a truck though and change up earlier than was usual habit in a manual. It cared not at all and just pulled like a train between about 1700 and 4500 revs. Handling was not at all bad consodering the heavy lump at the front. The Xsara had a reasonable engine (Petrol, 1.8) and lovely handling but towards the end of our ownership a half decent braking activity would see smoke from the the fronts and very hot wheels. A second good application would induce brake fade. I suspect the rears were not working at all for some reason. Ok ish for regular road use but not great for the track. On the other hand you could place the thing wherever you wanted in mid bend with a deft touch on the throttle. I considered keeping it as a track car but decided that trying to sort the brakes would be more trouble than it was worth what with likely resistance from management. At that point eldest daughter's then boyfriend wrote off his Golf so the Xsara became his cheap way of getting back on the road, though I'm sure he didn't appreciated its capabilities. Wrong 'image'. Not many of either left on the road now but probably more ZXs than Xsaras, age for age? |
||
|
19 Apr 2012, 22:20 (Ref:3062325) | #41 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 9,718
|
our old Sierra Co cars at Sturtevant where good, the 2L wagon got us from a gig in Brixton at 10pm back to Shoreham for last orders! our boss had a 2L cavalier, M40 in an hour.
the 307hd handled badly and went badly, it barely managed 30 MPG trying. best thing about it was the colour, at least it was free, because I wouldn't have voluntarily ****ed on it if it was on fire. our transit was better in every respect, even with a laden trailer on the back. not averse to Franco motors, my dads 405 Mi16 4x4 was great, the BX Gti wasn't bad either . . . |
|
|
28 Apr 2012, 08:55 (Ref:3066443) | #42 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,874
|
This item at Monaco auction neatly brings together two themes in this thread - Peugeot diesels and the difficulties of running a modern car as historic if the future.
http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCar...arID=r347&fc=0 If the link doesn't work it's Lot 382, ex Le Mans Peugeot race car. OK given the EUR1.5 - 1.8 mil price tag will deter most mere mortals, how about this: >>>>>>Starting and running this vehicle calls for specific equipment, third-party software licences and skills. The seller commits to providing the necessary technical support for a period of three years. This service will be provided at Peugeot Sport’s normal rates for technical support And I bet PS's "normal rates for technical support" will represent a season or two's budget for the average Historic racer. I guess my son and his generation are going to be limited to watching their nostalgia cars in strictly-governed works parades in 20 years time. |
||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
28 Apr 2012, 09:17 (Ref:3066447) | #43 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,413
|
Quote:
"Sledgehammer" technology as a certain Race Director I know likes to call it is dying out and it will not be long before we are basically left with a certain period of motorsport that the average clubman can compete in and the other lot will be in museums and on stands at motorshows as lifeless features that we once loved to watch. But......lets not give up hope (even though from my above post you may think i have). Where I used to live when i was a kid , the guy opposite me used to work on Scimitars. JT knows him very well, Nigel was a great laugh, looked like Kenny Everett, sounded very posh (really posh acent for south Essex) anyway I can remember Nigel talking about the technology on the then new BMW 7 series that had just come out and the fact that the new fangled service indicator and the electronics would be a nightmare and that you would have to go to BMW to get your servicing done. Well, you only have to look at Exchange and Mart to see that you can get your service indicator reset by buying a ten pound tool, and someone with a lap top can now plug into your ECU and boost it here and there....remember, your celphone has probably got more computing power than what it took to take man to the moon.....Technology moves with the times...and as it does...so do those who want to do what they say cant be done.... remember mobile phones used to need low loaders to be mobile! So....shall we bid for it.....who has a snap on tool kit....and I will bring me HP MultiSmart laptop ha ha |
|||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
28 Apr 2012, 10:07 (Ref:3066463) | #44 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 509
|
Did not Sauber lose the programs needed to run some of their early C2 cars and thus could not do any demo runs?
I also seem to remember something similar with one of the F1 teams not having a computer old enough to run the software. |
||
|
28 Apr 2012, 10:45 (Ref:3066477) | #45 | |||
#WhatAreHashTags
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,526
|
Quote:
I think there will be a whole generation of historic cars that will not be usable, unless the technology is replaced by, what Claire has kindly attributed to me (), 'sledgehammer engineering'. |
|||
__________________
John Smith Clerk of the Course and MSA Steward Race Director for 360MRC |
28 Apr 2012, 11:29 (Ref:3066487) | #46 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 520
|
I think, John, that the usability will be driven by desire - if someone really wants to race one of these types of car in the future then the systems needed to operate the car will be found, developed, modified or simply replaced with the technology available at that point in time. As I have said before historic motorsport is fashion lead - if Monaco, say, were to run a race for "active era" cars then the industry would find the means to satisfy that demand - never underestimate the financially driven business model......
|
|
|
28 Apr 2012, 11:44 (Ref:3066495) | #47 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,413
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
28 Apr 2012, 12:05 (Ref:3066503) | #48 | |||
#WhatAreHashTags
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,526
|
Quote:
.....but this a is just a discussion between interested parties and enthusiastic amateurs..... apart from Simon for whom it's his business and he probably knows more than the rest of us put together. He may well be right and I hope he is - it would be a tragedy for the future to be denied the sights and sounds of the technology driven generation of historic cars. |
|||
__________________
John Smith Clerk of the Course and MSA Steward Race Director for 360MRC |
28 Apr 2012, 12:50 (Ref:3066517) | #49 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,442
|
Yes modern technology is here to stay as it can only improve.
However I can remember several years back doing a "winter warmer" series when a couple of high tech (for the day) cars couldn't even start their engines because of electrical ecu related problems, at least my "old tech" banger is easy to work on:laugh |
||
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
28 Apr 2012, 18:19 (Ref:3066645) | #50 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 37,628
|
If your "old tech banger" has electronic ignition then it would be totally beyond me.
|
||
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Vinyl in Historic cars....get it out. | crosshatch | Australasian Touring Cars. | 81 | 6 Nov 2005 14:41 |
Historic race cars | brickkicker | Historic Racing Today | 38 | 12 Jul 2003 14:42 |
Historic Touring Cars | DAVID PATERSON | Australasian Touring Cars. | 22 | 30 Jul 2002 08:32 |
Historic touring cars | Michael M | Motorsport History | 13 | 28 May 2001 08:41 |
Historic Touring Cars | Larsen | Historic Racing Today | 3 | 11 Jan 2001 21:49 |