[Team] Is Ferrari's sponsorship legal?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Come on Chris, there's no need to BE ON EDGE.

[courageous]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

Yes we, the general public, need more layers of cotton wool and protection. We demand that governments take more control over what we can and cannot do, what we can and cannot see, and what we can or cannot consume.

I trust you'll see the sarcasm, and the last thing we want to do is ban more stuff... We ought to be removing bans from everyday life and allowing people to make their choices.... And not just with respect to alcohol or cigarettes.

As I said, this is not about banning MORE stuff it is already banned - the question (and I don't think you need to be an expert in graphical art or the psychology of subliminal messages to understand the answer) is is the barcode tobacco sponsership?

Do Ferrari recieve money from Phillip Morris in exchange for displaying the barcode? yes

Would PM give the team all this money if the barcode can not in any way be linked to their product? no

Would the team carry the barcode if Marlboro pulled the funding or tobacco sponsorship was legal? no


Please can somebody find the photoshop that was done a while back that demonstrated how the bars line up perfectly with the Martlboro font?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Point is... where that bar code can be related to tobacco advertising ?

Maybe Ferrari released the statement because Philip Morris was thinking about cutting back on his MARLBORO sponsorship?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

BUT - regardless of the rights and wrongs that barcode IS a Marlboro logo. No doubt. To me its a fact. The barcode on the Ferrari IS a Marlboro advert that has been set up to get as much round the rules as possible. Argue whether its right and wrong fair enough - but come on, it is so very much an advert! That barcode would plain not be there if the team wasn't getting one or two Euros from Marlboro!

People will be saying Bitten & Hisses was just a catchphrase next!

That's a perception of a smoker, simply. Not for kids that come from a generation when smoking is a sign of bad habits and bad for health, they don't associate one thing to another like the old ones do.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by courageous

As I said, this is not about banning MORE stuff it is already banned - the question (and I don't think you need to be an expert in graphical art or the psychology of subliminal messages to understand the answer) is is the barcode tobacco sponsership?

Do Ferrari recieve money from Phillip Morris in exchange for displaying the barcode? yes

Would PM give the team all this money if the barcode can not in any way be linked to their product? no

Would the team carry the barcode if Marlboro pulled the funding or tobacco sponsorship was legal? no


Please can somebody find the photoshop that was done a while back that demonstrated how the bars line up perfectly with the Martlboro font?

I would like to see that one proved, that would be something.

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maybe Ferrari released the statement because Philip Morris was thinking about cutting back on his MARLBORO sponsorship?

So Ferrari released the statement in the first place ? You mean your 'maybe' is a certainty ?

[TFHarv]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Annual causes of death in USA (2000)

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000 Alcohol 85,000
Which is why tobacco advertising is worse than alcohol advertising. Effectively because even average use of tobacco is clearly likely to kill you, whilst average use of alcohol is not.

So where are the figures that show that removing tobacco sponsor images from F1 cars has reduced the deaths caused by smoking? Where has it shown that removing the images has even reduced the number of F1 watching smokers ?

At the end of the day its just a political banner to make countries look like they are doing some good

At least when they were sponsoring the teams there was plenty of money being paid for it.

Lets not make the assumption that every F1 viewer is/was a sheep that ran out to buy the cigs that donned the livery of the winning car at races. I watched F1 when almost every car looked like a cig packet and I never smoked a cig in my life.

Likewise I don't go out and buy redbull just because there is sponsorship on winning cars.

Its advertising not brainwashing

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

maybe autist people ?

Neither of my two Autistic sons smokes MARLBORO cigarettes. They tend to leave that sort of thing to the 'normal' folk.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

So Ferrari released the statement in the first place ? You mean your 'maybe' is a certainty ?

Absolutely! Definitely! maybe

One thing that sponsors all tend to agree on is that they like to get out what they, at the very least, put in. And if that isn't happening they tend to go elsewhere. Anyway, maybe we should just wish the best of luck to Scuderia Ferrari MARLBORO in it's efforts to win the current world championships.

[Knowlesy]

I for one want Ferrari to remove this Marlboro subliminal branding.

When tobacco advertising was allowed I went through 150 cigarettes a day, a daily cocktail of Mild Seven, Rothmans, B+H, Marlboro, West and Gitanes. Now I have only got Marlboro left to kick. Those damn RED CARS!

Their actions disgust me and I am going to complain endlessly on the internet about it.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

When tobacco advertising was allowed I went through 150 cigarettes a day, a daily cocktail of Mild Seven, Rothmans, B+H, Marlboro, West and Gitanes. Now I have only got Marlboro left to kick. Those damn RED CARS!

It's enough to make you take up drinking!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Neither of my two Autistic sons smokes MARLBORO cigarettes. They tend to leave that sort of thing to the 'normal' folk.

Well, that's a clear then...

Originally Posted by Marbot

Absolutely! Definitely! maybe

One thing that sponsors all tend to agree on is that they like to get out what they, at the very least, put in. And if that isn't happening they tend to go elsewhere. Anyway, maybe we should just wish the best of luck to Scuderia Ferrari MARLBORO in it's efforts to win the current world championships.

I think Marlboro should leave and go to wherever they feel like. The point is the people obsession about certain things is just insane, there are more important things to be worried about than this. Instead of worrying about advertising they should be getting rid of the industry in the first place.
But I know, I know that this is just talking to the wind and it's far from having a good discussion about it. People should think that everything that they do, comes back in the same way.

[bdwoody]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I have also never heard of anyone suffering due to passive alcoholism.

mmm passive .... i think more than a few people may have lost loved ones due to some one else drinking excesively ! drink causes death now , passive smoking takes a while longer !!!!

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Come on Chris, there's no need to BE ON EDGE.

Now, I don't know what point your trying to make here, but I agree I quite fancy a Benson now!

[brands]

A crude version of the barcode on the Ferraris, replacing the Marlboro logos, first appeared at GPs in countries where tobacco advertising was prohibited prior to the blanket ban. The Marlboro logo and barcode were then changed race on race depending on how liberal the hosting government was.

When I see the barcode on a Ferrari today I'm still reminded of it's roots. It's never made me buy a packet of their product but I doubt they have spent billions over the years without believing advertising does work.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by TFHarv

Likewise I don't go out and buy redbull just because there is sponsorship on winning cars.

Its advertising not brainwashing

I've tried Red Bull once... It was disgusting, but their cars look cool!

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Wims

There must be hundreds of millions of kids watching F1 every other week tho.

Would you prefer a picture of Mr Rogers on the car?

[Birddog07]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Annual causes of death in USA (2000)

Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000 Alcohol 85,000
Which is why tobacco advertising is worse than alcohol advertising. Effectively because even average use of tobacco is clearly likely to kill you, whilst average use of alcohol is not.

But a death from Tobacco is one that started decades ago, before the public was well aware of the harm it does. The alcohol statistic says nothing as to if it is including fatal motor vehicle wrecks AKA one time use to death (of the user or just an innocent person(s), or both). The poor diet statistic is just sad. US is a bunch of fat tubs of lard.

It's no doubt that Ferrari's and Ducatti's logos are Marboro, I put two and two awhile ago 'Oh, they are still officially listed as a Malboro team, but where is the advertising, oh wait.' I see no harm in it at all though. I'm not going to start smoking because of Ferrari or Ducatti.

[courageous]

Sorry - I am missing something here.

Tobacco sponsorship is banned - there is no debate on that, so the whole "advertising tobaco is harmless" arguement is not what the discussion here should be about.

The question is:
Is the barcode that has been shown to resemble part of the Marlboro logo that Ferrari run because Marlboro pay them to do so tobaco sponsorship?

[Birddog07]

Clearly it does, aswell as the Ducati MotoGP bike. The real question is: Why is it being made such a big deal?

[fast95pony]

If the bar code appeared on a McLaren,there would huge fines,and bans.

But it's okay to paint the logo on Red Cars, courtesy of Ferrari International Assistance......

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Clearly it does, aswell as the Ducati MotoGP bike. The real question is: Why is it being made such a big deal?

I guess that since advertising, subliminally or otherwise, obviously does work. Otherwise, why would Philip Morris be handing out 200 million dollars to Ferrari every season? I guess that most of the other cigarette people thought that ban actually meant just complete ban and not that you could still throw money at F1 afterwards.

LOTUS

[Birddog07]

Guess they aren't as smart as Malboro. If tobacco really was banned, then how come Ferrari and Ducati have officially been able to enter still under the Malboro name?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Guess they aren't as smart as Malboro. If tobacco really was banned, then how come Ferrari and Ducati have officially been able to enter still under the Malboro name?

Does the team name count as advertising?

Legal loopholes abound everywhere.

I guess that it all depends on whether or not that it was cigarette 'advertising' that was banned or cigarette 'sponsorship'.

Anyway, the end result of all of this seems to be that Marlboro got its name plastered across the pages of many a newspaper just recently. Possibly the best strategy that Ferrari have pulled off all season.

[JeremySmith]

As usual Joe Saward has a sensible take on this subject..

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

For me advertising works only if you want it too. I can not think of a single piece of sponsorship on an F1 car that would have any influence in whether I purchased the product or not..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

For me advertising works only if you want it too. I can not think of a single piece of sponsorship on an F1 car that would have any influence in whether I purchased the product or not..

Same for me.

Which kind of begs the question: Why do sponsors bother to spend millions of dollars on advertising even if (in the case of Marlboro) they don't have any branding on the car?