Renault On The Verge Of Mistake?

[LindaC]

Originally posted by bart_jacobs
What I don't understand is why any team boss wants a driver that seems to be unlucky...and with Trulli it's not just on occasions but with him something seems to go wrong every race!!I don't doubt his speed or capability but if you were a team boss,would you want him??He's a bit like Badoer just when he seems to have his big break...something is going wrong...

It depends if you believe in "unlucky" or "equipment failing". Presumably the team knows what is their fault and what is the drivers.....

[Redlake27]

One assumes Flav has access to all the telemetry and knows Alonso is a better bet. Trulli would have a similar points score to Button if he had reliability.

The fact is - Button is good - but he ain't the next Schumi. If Flav is planning for the long term he needs a star. A driver who is blitzed by Fisichella, and is on a par with Trulli, who is quick, but hardly the next messiah, is on course for a Johnny Herbertesque career as opposed to a Schumacher/Montoya sort of career.

[F1Babe]

Renault's loss

[OVERSTEER]

Why was my post deleted? the comment about Briatore?
It shouldn't have been deleted, Briatore is a greedy ar$ehole!!

[TimD]

Your comment was deleted because it was prima facie libel under any legal system you care to mention.

I removed it, because I don't want Flavio Briatore's lawyers closing this place down.

I have no idea why you would want them to, but I suggest if you want to repeat your accusations, you do them on your own webspace and you back them up with evidence, if you can.

They will not be tolerated here, or on any other reputable forum.

[OVERSTEER]

Well that's my wrist slapped!

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by Redlake27
One assumes Flav has access to all the telemetry and knows Alonso is a better bet. Trulli would have a similar points score to Button if he had reliability.

The fact is - Button is good - but he ain't the next Schumi. If Flav is planning for the long term he needs a star. A driver who is blitzed by Fisichella, and is on a par with Trulli, who is quick, but hardly the next messiah, is on course for a Johnny Herbertesque career as opposed to a Schumacher/Montoya sort of career.

Flavio has his next Schumi found in Alonso. So he has got that covered. I mean, Renault has the potential, and so has Alonso. If Schumi retires, Brawn retires and Byrne will most definatly follow, not to mention Todt. So that will be the end of Ferrari as we know it. Renault and Alonso are my first bet to fill the gap Ferrari will be leaving. And post-Schumacher Ferrari will not be a pretty sight, me thinks.

The question remains, why are Renault keeping Trulli in stead of Button. Once you have the choice between these two, who we have seen head to head, I find it hard to imagine that Trulli is the one who takes the spoils.

A contract is not an argument, because a contract can be broken. Especially by Briatore. The contract is probably just 10 articles and 50 clauses anyway.

Trulli always showed potential, massive potential, but there comes a time when we need to conclude that its not going to happen. Too rely on the benefit of the doubt when sparring against Button, should tell us more then enough about Trulli's ability of turning his potential to good.

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

Originally posted by mac
Trulli and Button are still even this year in my book. So Trulli made a mistake. Who cares? Everyone makes mistakes. Personally, I think Button and Trulli should remain teammates next year. This criticism of Trulli is uncalled for, because he has been at least as quick, if not quicker at just about every race this year.

Cr@p. Button has scord far moe points than Trulli this year. You are only as good as your last performance and today Button blew the vastly more experienced Trulli into the dust again today, as he has been doing with relative impunity all year.

No serious team would employ Trulli - granted he has been srong in qualiying on occasions but has never ahcieved anything in six seasons and as I said in another thread in our heart of hearts he is a long term no hoper for the championship. Button is an infinitely better bet, a future WDC no doubt.

Whilst I like Alonso, and I am also convinced he will easily make Trulli look stupid next year, I am amzed Renault allow Briatore to do this - Alonso will be no better than Button and the UK is Renault's second biggest car market after France so where is the commercial logic anyway? Is Briatore blackmailing someone high up at Renault or something?

Yes, Renault have made a big mistake.

[Guy Goddard2]

Whenever we come to Tracks that ban advertising the cars are always made up with catchy slogans that mirror what we are trying to say, therfore Jenson will have a T-shirt on tommorrow under his race suit reading


Your a useless banker Flav....


Guy


Wrong man going, Renault have the wrong line up for next year.

[Dino IV]

Whoever stays, Renault has made the right choice to send off Button. It was already very fortunate for Jenson to drive at Renault this year, but his PR-value\performance ratio was probably attractive enough to pass him the seat again. Another year in a time when Renault is up and running to the front is too much to waste on a Williams-driver. The best thing Button could do was loose the Williams-deal, maybe then he could have argued a deal with Renault for next year. Getting rid of Williams was which he should have tried when Williams signed the absurd Ralf-goes-2004-deal last year. But perhaps Jenson isn't too convinced of himself and he doesn't dare cut that tie, who knows.

The Button-thing is fully seperate of who stays behind at Renault. When that will be Trulli, who's to argue he shouldn't stay? He's one awesome driver who'll make some overawed engineers jump up and down from their data screens now and then. He has problems of his own which stand in the way of getting his act better together, but that's something where Briatore should pay attention to. Even without that, he's still one of the few very best, so that only shows his unique abilities.

And about Alonso? Some people argue that it's stupid of Briatore that he puts two of his drivers against eachother. Firstly F1 is no gladiator game where only one survives. Lots of drivers lose out year after year but are still being kept at their team (one DC comes to mind). Secondly Trulli is an experienced driver, Alonso still an unexperienced youngster. Trulli could do great and if Alonso keeps up a bit and outshines him a couple of times (by agreement who knows, Flav has pulled off worse), both do well. But an ideal situation it is not. Perhaps Alonso can't get another seat and Flav sees no other way than to put him in his own shopwindow, who knows.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by Dino IV
Even without that, he's still one of the few very best, so that only shows his unique abilities.

I dont know about that. And even so, the results aren't there, and being good without any results is nothing more than showing potential. Great for a debut-season, but if every other season you dont go beyond that, its simply a questionmark. At the end, potential doesnt pay the bills.

[mac]

Originally posted by I Ate Yoko Ono
Cr@p. Button has scord far moe points than Trulli this year.

Do you actually watch the races? The only reason Bunsen has more points than Trulli is because of Jarno's car's rubbish reliability. If they had the same amount of reliability, then they would have very similar points.

You are only as good as your last performance and today Button blew the vastly more experienced Trulli into the dust again today, as he has been doing with relative impunity all year.

BLEW HIM AWAY!!!??? I don't call qualifying ONE place ahead of my teammate blowing him away.

Again, have you been watching the races? Trulli has outqualified Bunsen, and has been at least as quick in the races. Can't race? See Nurburgring - made a mistake, then proceeded to make up 5 positions in a hurry to close right back up on his teammate.

No serious team would employ Trulli - granted he has been srong in qualiying on occasions but has never ahcieved anything in six seasons

What do you mean by "achieving anything"? Surely, finishing 2nd at a soaked Nurburgring, leading in Austria in a pile of rubbish Prost and regularly outqualifying members of the big 6 (Faz, Willy and Mac) in a JORDAN are a lot more than
Bunsen has ever managed.

Is Briatore blackmailing someone high up at Renault or something?

Briatore IS someone high up at Renault.

Yes, Renault have made a big mistake.

I personally would have kept Trulli and Button, and farmed out Fernando for more experience.

"If it ain't broke ...."

[Valve Bounce]

OK, I'll throw a spanner into the works hre - Why did JPM stress that he has not signed anything yet for next year? Is he contemplating a move to Ferrari?

Valve

[Guy Goddard2]

Would the situation have been any different if Button had double the points he has and Trulli had failed to score up to France, Renault could never have justifyed dropping Button or was it the case that Button was gone regardless of anything...


Guy

[Surtees]

I don't think Frank will have Jenson back just yet.....he'd certainly not get rid of JPM and Ralf does a good job and of course, carries the Schumacher name with him (would this help attract sponsorship?). I reckon Jense wil certainly return to Williams, but not for a few seasons.

As for why he's leaving Renault....it's got to be down to politics because it doesn't make sense if you view it from the drive performance point of view. Flav has always been a bit weird with Jenson fro the word go.....maybe it's cos whilst Jense is on his team, the old man is not gonna have a chance to pull anymore supermodels!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Fullerton
Ralf does a good job and of course, carries the Schumacher name with him (would this help attract sponsorship?).

If it was Michael Schumacher then maybe it would attract sponsership, but not Rafe.

Jenson won't be at Williams next year, he'll be at McLaren in DC's seat!

[Surtees]

I hope so, DC needs a change, would wake him up a bit to be on a different team! But what if Mika wants to come back, who will Ron sacrifice??

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Fullerton
But what if Mika wants to come back,

That won't happen!

[Surtees]

Maybe he won't but as a hypothetical question, what if he DID, who would YOU let go....DC or Kimi??

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Fullerton
Maybe he won't but as a hypothetical question, what if he DID, who would YOU let go....DC or Kimi??

I'd let DC go without a doubt, but then i personally would also choose Jens, Nick, Eddie over DC!

[Valve Bounce]

Common guys, there has been no suggestion in the media of DC leaving - you guys are making this up to shovel more BS into this discussion.

Valve

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
you guys are making this up to shovel more BS into this discussion.

Valve, you've already said you hate me for having Sky Digi+ but, i was watching it this morning and just reading between the lines of what the so-called "experts" are saying!

[Mr V]

Valve, i posted this in another topic, sorry to repeat myself but there are alot of Jenson topics going on at the moment!

Originally posted by mr v
Obviously this isn't concrete proof that DC will leave McLaren but hear me out..............

Just seen an interview with DC after this mornings warm up and he was talking about what tyres he was using which he's not contractually allowed to do.

Now, he may be trying to bluff the other runners, although Peter Windsor did say at the beginning of the warm up that McLaren are running soft tyres so that bluff proberbly won't work, or maybe he's not worried about what Ron Dennis says anymore as this years WDC has gone and he won't be there next year?

[Number Juan]

i think that possibly Renault have bitten their noses off to spite their face. they have a young and able driver who is gaining more experience by the minute and thus getting so much better, and they're dropping him just as he is shafting the number 1 driver week in week out.

well done renault, drop him just as he's gettin good