Project C.A.R.S

[Sodemo]

Yep, I was fooled, I was one of the "investors" of this game. I do regret getting involved now, I feel like the original remit was used to pull people in, then the project morphed into something far more generic and mass market. All I wanted was a good sim, which is how it was initially sold, I couldn't care less about the return on the money.

Its funny when I look back to some of the earlier builds and look at what we have now, I just shake my head. Just really dumbed down. The Caterham R500 is a good example. When it was initially appeared it was a delight to drive. Understeered on corner entry, oversteered on the way out, but in a controllable, sliding manner. Now all of that is gone.

I was asked to do some "consulting" on the tracks. They spent weeks in the early stages getting the tracks correct which is why Spa looks pretty good, I poured hours into that track, then they decided it wasn't worth the time and effort, which is why you have Monza and Silverstone which appear the way they do, which is very inaccurate, look at the kerb width, the track camber, the undulations in the middle of Chapel?! Slap dash towards the end.

Really disappointed and I won't be getting involved for pCARS2 (which is already in the prepping stages).

[chunder]

I am sure you will not be alone Sodemo

I was treated rather harshly by Mr Bell and his cronies, partly self induced but I did nothing more than make a few, albeit close to the bone criticisms of the early versions of the game with regard to FFB, feel and some of the early online areas.

And was then houded out of WMD, no grip, virtual r by his fleet of lieutenants!

I tried it again a long time later and was very complimentary on their site, and on other forums and was banned again.

It was things like this that made me wary.

I do think the game has a great idea, but from the very early stages it was an arcade game with sim intentions. That was always going to happen with a PC based community. And most of the bought into the idea and loved it, a very clever move my Bell to initiate loyalty I must say.

[Sodemo]

Well we were sold a "full on simulation". What we got is anything but. Some of the cars handling is really laughable, almost canned spins etc.

[Akrapovic]

Bought this on the Xbox 1. DO NOT BUY THE CONSOLE VERSIONS.

I don't know how the PC one is, so I will not speak of it. But the console version is currently not playable. The joypad controls have major major bugs which make some cars completely undriveable.

Currently, going from lock to lock quickly will not work. If you are on left lock, then switch to the right too quickly, it continues on full left lock until you release the stick and let the car reset itself. Obviously by then it's too late to do anything as you've already had your accident.

The cars themselves are also too sensitive for a joypad. The reason is the car reaches full lock within 40% of the sticks travel. So before you're even turned half way, the car is already on full lock. There is also several other issues such as the Speed Sensitivity setting being reversed, and most control options not being explained. Being Sim racers, most of us understand deadzones and what not, but what on earth does "Control Input 1, 2 or 3" actually mean? I'm on a console - I can't open an ini to check this stuff.

What's worse is the community is busy telling people that it is a sim and meant to be hard. Meanwhile the dev team partly acknowledge the games flaws, but the community argues these flaws don't exist. The Xbox One patch is also broken, with gamers having to do hard reboots of the console for the patch to apply. SMS have now managed to make this game harder to play on a console than it is on a PC. I moved to console gaming because I no longer have time to play PC games to the max and need a more relaxed attitude, and this games actually harder to setup than Assetto Corsa was!

I grew up with GPL. Hot lapping the Ring trying to shave 0.1 off of my GPL Rank. I worked for Reiza Studios. I qualified for the iRacing Drivers World Championship. And now I'm being told by others that pCARS is a sim and the reason I can't drive it is because it's too realistic. In reality this game is completely broken on consoles.

I hope the PC version is better, but I do not hold my breath. Buy Assetto Corsa if you want a realistic driving experience. Buy Forza if you want an arcade (but slightly believable) one. Whilst this should be a bridge between both, it does not mean anything whilst you currently cannot play it.

For the first time ever, I'm seeking a refund for a game. Because it's a Digital Download it may not be possible. But I'm giving it a go.

[chunder]

That does surprise me Akra.

The noises I had heard were that the console version was actually OK. And that the controls had been dumbed down a little to appease that market, understandably as the market is far bigger and also less saturated right now with anything new.

The issues I have heard of are AMD graphics card issues, online connectivity, and the insane amount of fiddling you do coz SMS couldn't be bothered to give you a decent wheel profile, so they just leave you to do it yourself, and unless you know what you are doing, this is a matter of trial and error apparently.

The community are a weird bunch, I guess if you have invested in that community over years you are going to be loyal, a very clever trick by Mr Bell.

But loyalty breeds fanaticism, and that is all I have experienced.

I do feel that a less aggressive approach would have leaned fans to be more accepting of WMD, their approach was always so defensive, very aggressive in their defence, and this is not helping them now.

But a lot of people seem perfectly happy with it.

[Akrapovic]

I have no problem with dumbed down controls. Like I said, I grew up with GPL, I had a good iRacing rating, etc. I am a sim racer through and through. But I have no time for that with my life now. I do miss it but I have more important priorities. So a Simcade game like this was perfect for me.

But this games controls are deeply broken on the X1. Completely unplayable broken. I want to like it, but at the moment it does not function as a racing game.

This is before we talk about issues like the AI not changing tyres when it rains, and continue to set dry weather times, on slicks, on a wet track and various other game play issues. I'm not even at the point of being able to discuss gameplay issues, because the game is broken before it even gets to that point.

[tux]

Akra, you can fix the locking of the steering issue by setting steering deadzone to 0

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by tux

Akra, you can fix the locking of the steering issue by setting steering deadzone to 0

Tried it, doesn't work. Does work for some, doesn't for others. And a joypad with no deadzone is also hard to drive with. This issue is then compounded by the faulty settings which mean you reach maximum lock within 40% of the steering range. So unfortunately it's a fix which doesn't work foe everybody, and only makes a separate issue worse.

How this game was released in this state I do not know.

[Aysedasi]

No wish to be rude, but why would you want to drive a sim like this with a joypad......?

I don't know much about this apart from loving what I've seen. But can I still use my beloved Momo Force?

Pointless question as there can't be any chance that my old pc would be able to run this......

[Akrapovic]

Because I want to sit in my bed and play a game with the wife. That's what we do. This is a console game, and has been advertised heavily on the xbox front page, yet it doesn't work with the controller? This isn't really a sim (certainly not on the same level as iRacing, Assetto Corsa, GPL, Game Stock Car, GTR or GTL), and the controller issues are not restricted to joypads - these issues exist on wheels, but due to the nature the effects are minimised. To make it worse, settings which existed in the debug menu which would've been useful for fixing these bugs, are not available in the final release.

There are even PC Beta testers who bought the game on consoles and then promptly returned the game, saying it's completely broken.

Discovered another bug last night whilst trying to bodge some working settings into the menus. The Speed Sensitivity setting is obviously used to decrease sensitivity at high speed to stop you spearing off the circuit. However in pCARs it goes beyond this and if you set speed sensitivity high, it stops the car steering at all at high speed. And then the lower the speed gets, the more sensitive it becomes.

This leads to silly situations where the car literally cannot turn, and then when you do slow down, it finally turns in and you end up correcting all over the place. This then exaggerates itself as you drop off speed to control the problem, as the controls get continually more and more sensitive.

[chunder]

The game in my opinion as Akra says is marketed at console users. The controls have been setup like this, with a deadzone in the steering etc that you always get with console games.

The biggest problem is that insetad of concentrating on one or the other WMD hvae tried to do both and that will always be a compromise.

It's a nice idea, but an idiotic business plan, as you can never appease everyone.

All I have sen on the forums I use regularly are not praise, there is that, but mainly continuous posts about how to set things up, graphics issues, hardware issues.

Just smacks of a game that should not have been released but was forced into being so by a team that were simply unaware of how many issues they face and led by a perosn who simply tried a one size fits all approach in a market that it will never work in.

Can you imagine trying to play Iracing or GPL, or GP79 on your PLaystation?

No of course not, I rest my case. They have tried to make a racey version of Gran Turismo in my opinion, but it has largely been put together by sim gamers, so you have a massive contradiction between the people who are testing it and the market they are clearly aiming to succeed in.

[Akrapovic]

Either Microsoft is desperate to push any game it can on the X1, or SMS have paid for the top advertising slot on the X1 page. It's a two thirds page advert on the front Store page at the moment, pushing pCARs. Brave to heavily advertise a game in this state.

[chunder]

Honestly nothign amazes me about thme.

Their maketing budget must run into millions with the adverts they are running at the moment, which means they had far more money than members were led to believe.

the game is getting good reviews and has sold well, but as I say it is mainly from next gen console users. The PC market accounted for about 6% of overall sales.

Hilarious considering those users are the ones that bankrolled the project and supposedly developed it, (posted on a forum lol)

[Sodemo]

PC users funded a game designed for consoles.

Gutted.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

PC users funded a game designed for consoles.

Gutted.

If it was designed for consoles then they've done a spectacularly bad job of it since it currently doesn't work on consoles.

After the flood of 0 star reviews on Amazon stating it's broken, there's now a bunch of oddly worded 5 star reviews saying it's perfect. That's not at all suspicious.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Bought this on the Xbox 1. DO NOT BUY THE CONSOLE VERSIONS.

I don't know how the PC one is, so I will not speak of it. But the console version is currently not playable. The joypad controls have major major bugs which make some cars completely undriveable.

Currently, going from lock to lock quickly will not work. If you are on left lock, then switch to the right too quickly, it continues on full left lock until you release the stick and let the car reset itself. Obviously by then it's too late to do anything as you've already had your accident.

The cars themselves are also too sensitive for a joypad. The reason is the car reaches full lock within 40% of the sticks travel. So before you're even turned half way, the car is already on full lock. There is also several other issues such as the Speed Sensitivity setting being reversed, and most control options not being explained. Being Sim racers, most of us understand deadzones and what not, but what on earth does "Control Input 1, 2 or 3" actually mean? I'm on a console - I can't open an ini to check this stuff.

What's worse is the community is busy telling people that it is a sim and meant to be hard. Meanwhile the dev team partly acknowledge the games flaws, but the community argues these flaws don't exist. The Xbox One patch is also broken, with gamers having to do hard reboots of the console for the patch to apply. SMS have now managed to make this game harder to play on a console than it is on a PC. I moved to console gaming because I no longer have time to play PC games to the max and need a more relaxed attitude, and this games actually harder to setup than Assetto Corsa was!

I grew up with GPL. Hot lapping the Ring trying to shave 0.1 off of my GPL Rank. I worked for Reiza Studios. I qualified for the iRacing Drivers World Championship. And now I'm being told by others that pCARS is a sim and the reason I can't drive it is because it's too realistic. In reality this game is completely broken on consoles.

I hope the PC version is better, but I do not hold my breath. Buy Assetto Corsa if you want a realistic driving experience. Buy Forza if you want an arcade (but slightly believable) one. Whilst this should be a bridge between both, it does not mean anything whilst you currently cannot play it.

For the first time ever, I'm seeking a refund for a game. Because it's a Digital Download it may not be possible. But I'm giving it a go.

Yup, i'm screwed, too lol

I'm (kind of) glad other people are saying this, because all i've done is tamper with the control settings and I never feel like i've got it right.

It's either horrifically laggy and understeery at high speed, then just a twitchy/spinning mess on the slow corners.

Help!

Selby

[chunder]

Thats interesting Selby, I am amaazed you bought the damn thing though knowing all the hassles they have had with it

There are places like Steam and racedept where you can try settings for wheels, might be an option.

But I think I will wait until it's on sale and been patched to oblivion!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Kirby711

Any update on the controller patch?

And yes, I have read all the threads with workarounds and various settings.

Originally Posted by Ian Bell

Yes, we have an update, but we're hiding it from the users to further frustrate them.

Isn't it nice to have the head of the studio being sarcastic to the customers who've paid ~£50 for a product that doesn't work.

[chunder]

The man has an ego the size of Europe and is one of the main reasons this game has such a MArmite following I am afraid.

In any other business he would have been long gone.

He is the perfect example of a man surrounded by psychophants.

[Aysedasi]

Reading all this is very disappointing. I was even contemplating buying a new pc to upgrade from my now seriously ageing machine, primarily to be able to run this. (I don't do consoles ). I probably will anyway (as my wife says I ought to..... ), but I had hoped to read better than this from something that loooked so tasty.....

[chunder]

Ayes, there are some very good reviews of the game elsewhere and I will probably buy it when it is cheap in a few months or Xmas more likely.

But they had endless delays getting it ready, and then HAD to release it as they were already suffering from people wanting their money back from the preorder due to 3 previous delays on release.

There have been numerous issues with licencing, remember the Porsche thing a while back, and this mans attitude to anyone daring to criticise his project and also the article about the games funding "method"

But I would wait and perhaps try it on someone elses PC before you buy a new one to play it as it does appear very console orientated at the moment. But you can play it on a PC.

Any time a developer has to badger a hardware supplier like AMD to release a universal patch and issue press releases about the issues facing their product you can sort of tell things are not going well.

I imagine it is probably fine, but I would not pay full price on principle seeing as I was made to accept a refund of my initial WMD contribution, so I would have to pay full price to play the game. Due to daring to criticise quite midly on WMD, aswell as praise I might add.

I did not accept it, and this after publicly eating humble pie and praising the versions I was currently testing.

That is how far Bell goes, and hence I have raised this issue on every forum I can ever since.

[m355y]

My take having played both console versions is that it's pretty good on the PS4. Yeah the cars are quite sensitive, but it works. The control pad is fine. It's not the hardcore sim we'd hoped for, but it's a step forward for a console racer, some of the tracks are beautifully recreated (Spa - by the sounds of it thanks to someone on here!), some of them less so, the slight lack of cars is a shame (where's the DTM Audi or BMW? I thought both were going to be in the game as there's still a DTM class but only with the Mercedes), things like the damage model are pretty weak, the AI isn't great......but the feeling of pounding round the Nurburgring Nordscheife or Le Mans is still fantastic and the huge grids of cars/race setup options etc are undoubtedly a massive, massive improvement on Forza where you felt there was a brilliant racing experience limited hugely by how impossible it was to set up a realistic feeling series or do more than 3 lap races offline - or the overly clinical, clunky GT6.

At worst it's like a rebooted TOCA2 for the next gen, which to be fair I'd always wanted.

But it just doesn't work at all on the XboxOne. The controls are so twitchy, the controller so ill-suited to it and you can tell it's running at a lower resolution. If I only had an XB1 and had bought this version I'd be gutted having seen how much more fluid it feels on PS4.

And, really, after all the hype for me the bottom line is that generally it does nothing GRID Autosport doesn't do. It looks a bit better, obviously. But GA also has much better AI and damage model, quietly and without ****ing thousands of people off, Codemasters slipped that one under the radar and I think in 'simcade' terms GA is still probably the more enjoyable game personally.

[chunder]

Has anyone here played PC versions and console versions.

I would likely not play a game like this on console.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunder

Ayes, there are some very good reviews of the game elsewhere and I will probably buy it when it is cheap in a few months or Xmas more likely.

But they had endless delays getting it ready, and then HAD to release it as they were already suffering from people wanting their money back from the preorder due to 3 previous delays on release.

There have been numerous issues with licencing, remember the Porsche thing a while back, and this mans attitude to anyone daring to criticise his project and also the article about the games funding "method"

But I would wait and perhaps try it on someone elses PC before you buy a new one to play it as it does appear very console orientated at the moment. But you can play it on a PC.

Any time a developer has to badger a hardware supplier like AMD to release a universal patch and issue press releases about the issues facing their product you can sort of tell things are not going well.

I imagine it is probably fine, but I would not pay full price on principle seeing as I was made to accept a refund of my initial WMD contribution, so I would have to pay full price to play the game. Due to daring to criticise quite midly on WMD, aswell as praise I might add.

I did not accept it, and this after publicly eating humble pie and praising the versions I was currently testing.

That is how far Bell goes, and hence I have raised this issue on every forum I can ever since.

I think you're on the money there. I'll wait and hope that either I can pick it up in a bargain bin or that there are some quick bugfixes/upgrades to make it into what it should have been..... Mind you, I'm still going to upgrade this old pc.....

[Akrapovic]

Right, significant news for Xbox users. The game has received it's first major patch (discounting the day 1 patch, because it didn't really address anything). The big news being that the controllers now work correctly and the analogue sticks have the full range.

You may find that the cars are a little over sensitive still, but it is now drivable. Using the default settings for "Control Input Method 3" and then turning down sensitivity slightly and then using a slower steering ratio in the car setup, I was able to drive all the cars I've tested so far without a major control issue.So I think it's safe to say that from my experience, that the control issues are now solved on the Xbox One.

So here's a very short basic review from my experience last night. I started a career and skipped the karts. My reasoning behind that is the kart races do not have practice sessions, meaning you don't have time to learn the tracks, whilst the AI obviously doesn't have this disadvantage. So I jumped straight to cars and decided my route would be tin tops, and it gave me a drive in the Renault Clio Cup.

First impressions were excellent. Whilst the AI was a bit dim at times, it isn't the worst I've ever seen and the Clio races were enjoyable because of that. The tracks so far (Donington and Snetterton) are not the most accurate representations of tracks you'll find, but they aren't wildly wrong for the most part, so it'll do for this.

The handling and tyre wear was fun and manageable. The wee Clio wants to swap ends on cold tyres which is great fun, and the sounds are really nice. The UI is a bit small on a console, but I'm getting by. Those with smaller TVs may struggle. The changing weather is lovely to watch too.

Downsides - The Clios have a 2 races a weekend format, and race 2 includes a pit stop for tyres. This is a slight problem since pCars does not allow manual control in the pit lane from what I can see. So you can belt in at 120mph and not brake and it'll stop the car immediately for you. So pit lane rules are basically non-existent. And the AI is gulity of this too. And if you're the first pit stall and you're going to miss it, you'll be teleported into it.

It also doesn't tell you the pit window. It appears to open on lap 2, but you can't be sure because your mechanic (who is a moron, btw) tells you on the radio "You must pit now!" as soon as it opens. I chose to wait a few laps and pitted at mid distance with no effect. But the pit window being displayed somewhere would be nice.

The AI also do not seem greatly effected by the weather or tyres. Driving Clio race 2 at Snetterton, it was raining at the start. Everyone started on wets and the pit window opened. Some AI cars pitted and obviously put another set of wets on. I stayed out in the hope it would dry out, and it did. So I got lucky, pitted, put a set of slicks on and my tyres felt great and I was happy. Until I noticed that the AI cars which had wets on were just as fast as me. So my strategic genius (I'm being generous to myself there :P) was outdone by the fact that the AI don't need a strategy - they can do whatever they want.

So basically, the game is now playable and a huge amount of fun to drive. However it does have some bugs and issues that need worked out. And if I'm honest...this isn't a sim. This in no way can be put in the same category as Assetto Corsa, iRacing, rFactor, GSC or GPL. It just isn't that detailed in its driving model. This isn't a criticism, because frankly the sim tag was always marketing rather than intention. It's a perfect balance of realism, believable, and casual player.