[Rules] Grosjean banned for Monza

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

You have to compare it to other incidents to see what precedent there is for careless driving. This rates less than many and sees one of the harshest penalties we have seen for a long time

Thus making it about time then. How much longer do you leave this kind of thing unpunished - until someone gets hurt?

[Pingguest]

Ridiculous! This penalty really is out of proportion!

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Last driver to get a race ban ??

Michael Schumacher in 1994?

[Charlex]

Lotus should call Nelsinho Piquet, so he can prove his father's words that Raikkonen and Grosjean aren't that good drivers...

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Michael Schumacher in 1994?

Who was the last one getting a ban for (admittedly) causing an accident? Patrese in 1978 maybe?

E: Apparently it's Mika Hakkinen for the Hockenheim 1994 pile-up.

[JohnSSC]

Tough call here. Grosjean has been involved in numerous 1st lap kerfluffles this season but is not to blame in all of them. I thought the move was careless and put Lewis in a bad spot. Further, we don't know (from the vids i have seen, anyway) who was behind Lewis. He may not have had the option of backing off/hitting the binders without getting clobbered from behind.

Agree wholeheartedly that the penalties have not exactly been models of consistency.

[Sodemo]

I like how the FIA stated in their press release that the crash "eliminated championship contenders", like it would have been ok if he had caused a crash but only wiped out the HRT's and Caterhams...?

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I like how the FIA stated in their press release that the crash "eliminated championship contenders", like it would have been ok if he had caused a crash but only wiped out the HRT's and Caterhams...?

I thought that curious as well. The move was what it was and should be analyzed as such with no weight given to the championship possibilities of any of those involved.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I like how the FIA stated in their press release that the crash "eliminated championship contenders", like it would have been ok if he had caused a crash but only wiped out the HRT's and Caterhams...?

They are really stupid for adding that line to their statement, and yes, I have no doubt whatsoever, if it was say Petrov cutting Pic at the start and taking a Torro Rosso out in the process, there would have been no race bans. Im 100% positive about that and its just so fundamentally wrong.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yes, there have been worse things and others have not been punished, but there comes a time when action has to be taken.

What you say makes sense if there is to be a new stricter and more consistent application of punishment going forward. However I have zero faith that this will be the case. I suspect that at the end of the season this will stand out as being particularly heavy handed and unfair when compared to other punishment that has and will be handed out.

I think it was an unfortunate accident. I don't think there was any malice. He was pushing the envelope, but we have all seen plenty of first corner "close calls". It is somewhat part of the sport. I think a race ban is too strong.

Richard

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

They are really stupid for adding that line to their statement, and yes, I have no doubt whatsoever, if it was say Petrov cutting Pic at the start and taking a Torro Rosso out in the process, there would have been no race bans. Im 100% positive about that and its just so fundamentally wrong.

Agreed.

[p-matt]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Last driver to get a race ban ??

Massa - Monza 2002 I believe.

I think it is a harsh penalty for the incident itself, but it depends whether or not they are taking Grosjean's first lap incident history into account. I'm all for drivers getting race bans for repeatedly making mistakes. Just think how many Maldonado should have racked up by now!

Will be very interesting to see how d'Ambrosio gets on. I really don't know how good he is. He did nothing in GP2, but arguably it's more the team's fault than his. He was solid in the Virgin last year, certainly better against Glock than di Grassi, but probably not as strong as Pic.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by W.A Trichlorostyrene

OK, so basically it's worse to take out Alonso and Hamilton, rather than Petrov and Pic?

I read that quote the same way. If the accident had not taken out big names or been frightening I doubt there would have been a penalty at all since the FIA has neglected to punish anyone for "not giving the other driver enough room". And on the subject of "not enough room", there was a pretty substantial amount of grass/fake grass on the other side of that white line available to Lewis (and a decent amount of tarmac between him and the line as well). Lewis did nothing to avoid contact. Grosjean's move was without malice, it was either an overly ambitious block, poor spacial awareness, or an honest case of not seeing him in those useless mirrors. From Lewis' view in the McLaren it looks like contact is inevitable unless he takes action. What does he do? He keeps his foot in it and continues to go straight because his ego is too big to use his brakes or put a wheel in the grass. I'm sure he has been dying to play the victim after a month without racing as well. Grosjean made a silly move, Hamilton neglecting to avoid an accident he was completely capable of avoiding makes him just as guilty to causing the accident. As narrow as Monza is in places, we will see several drivers pushed to and over the white line as well as off track several times, and I really doubt anyone is going to get a race ban, drive through, time, or grid penalty for it.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Salazar banning somebody for driving like Salazar, brilliant.

[Paradise City]

I think they are far too frisky with penalties, left, right and centre in F1 - and indeed in motorracing fullstop - but I think this Grosjean one race-ban is legit. He's a talent with a future but a bit of pause for thought over a few weeks will do him the world of good.

It'll be interesting to see how d’Ambrosio will do in his place.

[bravo]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

I read that quote the same way. If the accident had not taken out big names or been frightening I doubt there would have been a penalty at all since the FIA has neglected to punish anyone for "not giving the other driver enough room". And on the subject of "not enough room", there was a pretty substantial amount of grass/fake grass on the other side of that white line available to Lewis (and a decent amount of tarmac between him and the line as well). Lewis did nothing to avoid contact. Grosjean's move was without malice, it was either an overly ambitious block, poor spacial awareness, or an honest case of not seeing him in those useless mirrors. From Lewis' view in the McLaren it looks like contact is inevitable unless he takes action. What does he do? He keeps his foot in it and continues to go straight because his ego is too big to use his brakes or put a wheel in the grass. I'm sure he has been dying to play the victim after a month without racing as well. Grosjean made a silly move, Hamilton neglecting to avoid an accident he was completely capable of avoiding makes him just as guilty to causing the accident. As narrow as Monza is in places, we will see several drivers pushed to and over the white line as well as off track several times, and I really doubt anyone is going to get a race ban, drive through, time, or grid penalty for it.

Nice rant, but have you seen how well an F1 car brakes on grass? If Hamilton had gone onto the grass he would be going at pretty much the same speed as he spears a car turning into the corner.

edit:

Looking at a replay from on board, Hamilton has about 1 second between the Renault appearing and it starting to rub against his tyre. In that second he moved about 4 tyre widths to the right and his loss of control is because he has to start braking on the grass. It is also the back of Hamilton's front tyre rubbing on the leading edge of Geosjean's rear tyre. If Hamilton had braked the accident would have just started earlier. The evidence seems to make your argument null and void.

Here is the link until it is removed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJ7JJ0lITE You can see tarmac between the top of Hamilton's wheel and the white line as he runs into the corner. As the Renault swings in, the white line becomes obscured by the tyre.

[skells22]

I can answer the race ban question,a certain 7 time world champion was the last one to be ban before today

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by skells22

I can answer the race ban question,a certain 7 time world champion was the last one to be ban before today

When was that? If you thinking 1994 then Massa has been banned since.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Lewis did nothing to avoid contact. ...... From Lewis' view in the McLaren it looks like contact is inevitable unless he takes action. What does he do? He keeps his foot in it and continues to go straight because his ego is too big to use his brakes or put a wheel in the grass. I'm sure he has been dying to play the victim after a month without racing as well. Grosjean made a silly move, Hamilton neglecting to avoid an accident he was completely capable of avoiding makes him just as guilty to causing the accident.

I'm not Lewis's biggest fan but there is no way todays incident can be laid at his door.

[PRS RH01]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Last driver to get a race ban ??

Riccardo Patrese band from after monza after they said he was responsible for the great Ronnie Peterson death . Total witch hunt so some things never change . Bet M S gets slapped wrists for his idiotic antics with Vettel

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by bravo

Nice rant, but have you seen how well an F1 car brakes on grass? If Hamilton had gone onto the grass he would be going at pretty much the same speed as he spears a car turning into the corner.

edit:

Looking at a replay from on board, Hamilton has about 1 second between the Renault appearing and it starting to rub against his tyre. In that second he moved about 4 tyre widths to the right and his loss of control is because he has to start braking on the grass. It is also the back of Hamilton's front tyre rubbing on the leading edge of Geosjean's rear tyre. If Hamilton had braked the accident would have just started earlier. The evidence seems to make your argument null and void.

Here is the link until it is removed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJ7JJ0lITE You can see tarmac between the top of Hamilton's wheel and the white line as he runs into the corner. As the Renault swings in, the white line becomes obscured by the tyre.

Sorry, I should have specified braking before he was within Grosjean's wheelbase so that he was completely behind. I understand that it is nearly impossible for them to brake within each others' wheel bases and brake at the same rate, avoiding contact. And at the point of contact he (Lewis) still had plenty of room to his right. I investigated into what you stated about him moving over 4 tyre widths, but when I watched the replay I never, never actually saw him put any clockwise input into the steering wheel even though it looks like he has indeed moved over. Maybe this is the contour of the track creating an illusion? Unless the suspension settings are not symmetrical and cause the car to drift towards the right at all times? Just suggestions. I agree that there was not a lot of time to react, but I believe he may not have even been paying attention to Grosjean because knowing his personality, Lewis was likely disturbed by Maldonado's start and trying to hard to keep up.

Cheers

[bella]

how can sergio canamasas not even get a slap for putting berthon in the wall on the way down to eau rouge at full racing speed, yet grosjean gets a ban for doing that?

baffling. at what point during a race start are we going to start saying to drivers "you have to look in your mirrors just as much as you're looking forward and trying not to drive into people in front of you"? it seems to me that he was punished for the consequences of the accident - that it was spectacular and airbourne, and indeed that it involved championship contenders.

i thought they were meant to punish based on the incident itself?

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm not Lewis's biggest fan but there is no way todays incident can be laid at his door.

Not trying to blame Hamilton for the accident, just frowning upon him for not putting any obvious effort into avoiding Grosjean. If you are driving down the motorway and someone cuts you off like that...instincts would lead you to brake and/or move to a different lane. Keeping your foot down and maintaining your line is not going to prevent someone from running into you.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

Not trying to blame Hamilton for the accident, just frowning upon him for not putting any obvious effort into avoiding Grosjean. If you are driving down the motorway and someone cuts you off like that...instincts would lead you to brake and/or move to a different lane. Keeping your foot down and maintaining your line is not going to prevent someone from running into you.

they weren't, so irrelevant.
What do you know of the instincts of a racing driver? how much race experience do you have?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by skells22

I can answer the race ban question,a certain 7 time world champion was the last one to be ban before today

Mika Hakkinen was banned for a first corner crash in 1994 too.