AMRS Round 2

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

What is the comparative entry fees between a Top Gear, AMRS and say a CAMS meeting ?

This is a very good and interesting question.There is not a straight answer as in nearly every category there is different numbers in each series. I will get as precise as I can ( I do not want to be told I am $50 out in $4800 so I am wrong etc) . My earlier comment that (I think?) spurred the question roughly stated differences. I will quantify into specifics -- I think it will go a long way to explain many comments I have made previously.
BTW-- nice to see DRT asking real questions that he seems not to know the answers to already!

[Robert Ryan]

Falcadore you missed the "V8Stockcars" or whatever they were going to be called. To me AMRS, is a "bubble and squeak" racing series, having leftover elements from other racing series and more important to the participants than anyone watching.

[Sultan]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Leaving aside the issues that Silver 3 believes I ignored, CAMS State Championship ranged last year from $180-$285. AMRS was $750 IIRC. Top Gear was noticeably less than State Champ but I cannot recall by how much.

$100-$120 for top gear... One day meet, one qualifying session & 6 (!) races...

[Oaksnaf]

Well done Sam Dale for winning the TCC and the V8 Giants and was one of the few that didn't spear off the track after Chada left some fluid on the circuit.

[Bullett]

I went out today, TCC was good, GT was good quality but most others were umm interesting. As for $25 entry...I think you can take that. No wonder no one said the entry price...scare people off, one bloke at the gate infront of me found price out and said 'F*** that' and went home

[mtpanorama]

I see OZ boss was up to its usual standards. 3 cars in the first race and one didnt finish, then they didnt show at all anymore.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

I see OZ boss was up to its usual standards. 3 cars in the first race and one didnt finish, then they didnt show at all anymore.

In one session, they had NO cars go out

[Oaksnaf]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

In one session, they had NO cars go out

No real point in going out on a totally undriveable surface though..... much like their qualifying session.

But only 4 laps of racing over the weekend, wonder whether they would get a refund from entry fee's. Certainly wouldn't want to have travelled from interstate.

[BFC]

Originally Posted by Bullett

I went out today, TCC was good, GT was good quality but most others were umm interesting. As for $25 entry...I think you can take that. No wonder no one said the entry price...scare people off, one bloke at the gate infront of me found price out and said 'F*** that' and went home

but i bet he paid $100 last Sunday to see 4 lousy races at the AGP

[Bullett]

Yeah I wouldn't have wanted to come from Qld or something, big treck for 4 laps...gee that worth it. Wonder how much they had to fork out for tv between them? x divide by 3 = A LOT

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

having leftover elements from other racing series and more important to the participants than anyone watching.

Is that not the whole objective of the AMRS, first and foremost they aim to provide a cost effective place for car owners to go racing.

[Chronicle]

Is that 4 laps for all cateogries for the whole weekend?

[PVDA]

OzBoss lost a few cars on Friday in Private Practice & another on Saturday in Qualifying severely depleting the size of the already small field.

The two torrential downpours on Saturday caused some delays but we got through the amended programme pretty much on time on Sunday. Mind you rain storms of that kind would've caused a red flag at any circuit in the country and wasn't unique to Calder it's just the VHT traction compound on the drag strip takes a little bit of time to get dry once the storm passes.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chronicle

Is that 4 laps for all cateogries for the whole weekend?

No-- that was caused in one category by a set of unusual circumstances.
Interesting to read comments on costs-- clearly a misunderstood topic.
The most expensive category to enter is the Sports/GT Intermarque Championship -- for the open class the highest cost-- for the class cars the lowest cost. It is still somewhere from 1/3 to 1/10 of the cost of other comparable series that have television.
The figure that needs to be considered--- even at the top end of the scale this series is cheaper per minute of track time available than the Victorian State Circuit Racing Series and then Intermarque has TV. So do not get too carried away with misleading statistics. Actual race legth'd are a balancing act between long enough but not too long.The fast cars cost X to run per minute and doubling the race distance may put costs past commom sense.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Is that not the whole objective of the AMRS, first and foremost they aim to provide a cost effective place for car owners to go racing.

That is not the only charter-- you forget that Cams were prepared to use the AMRS when it suited them.Cost effective is important and more accurately should be described as realistic costs.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by PVDA

OzBoss lost a few cars on Friday in Private Practice & another on Saturday in Qualifying severely depleting the size of the already small field.

The two torrential downpours on Saturday caused some delays but we got through the amended programme pretty much on time on Sunday. Mind you rain storms of that kind would've caused a red flag at any circuit in the country and wasn't unique to Calder it's just the VHT traction compound on the drag strip takes a little bit of time to get dry once the storm passes.

Thru all the organisational difficulties on Saturday causing program alterations- common sense was used and the meeting picked up the lost time ( partly due to the Oz Boss time being used elsewhere) .
It was a really easy meeting to be at with terrific co-operation from everybody and a terrific job being done. No complaints from drivers( well- only about each other) and suresly they are the ones that matter-- not the negatives being raised by the theorists from 10kms to 3000 kms away.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Bullett

I went out today, TCC was good, GT was good quality but most others were umm interesting. As for $25 entry...I think you can take that. No wonder no one said the entry price...scare people off, one bloke at the gate infront of me found price out and said 'F*** that' and went home

I would certainly have liked every spectator possible to be there-- pity he did not have access to the thousands of free passses handed out.
The other side of the story-- motorsport has become user pays and competitors are paying to race-- it would be nice to think that all interested parties were prepared to pay their contribution to see that racing continues., and that includes spectators.

[zxrno1]

Three of us went on Sunday, and had a great day, $25 to get to watch a days racing is cheap entertainment, the racing was good it seemed like a well run event from a spectators viewpoint, I had friends racing and they had a ball as well, which is what the series is about isn't it?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Interesting to read comments on costs-- clearly a misunderstood topic.
The most expensive category to enter is the Sports/GT Intermarque Championship -- for the open class the highest cost-- for the class cars the lowest cost. It is still somewhere from 1/3 to 1/10 of the cost of other comparable series that have television.

Except that it isn't. Last year state level categories were being televised for as low as $2000 per class per round. Substantially less than the bump AMRS demanded. The numbers I quoted came from competitors who competed at those meetings. You can make statistics say anything you want if you break the numbers down far enough into finite enough distinctions.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Except that it isn't. Last year state level categories were being televised for as low as $2000 per class per round. Substantially less than the bump AMRS demanded. The numbers I quoted came from competitors who competed at those meetings. You can make statistics say anything you want if you break the numbers down far enough into finite enough distinctions.

You don't get it-- I am quoting actual figures-- not made up -- not imagined but actual numbers. If you insist on putting dollar amounts in there-- my question to you is this-- show me the quote for that number for this year? You clearly have no understanding of what actual costs are-- and even more so when you have the temerity to question my numbers. An old saying but never more true-- a little knowldge is a dangerous thing. In your case what you know is clearly laughable. If you are so sure that you are right and that sort of deal is available-- why are they not on TV anymore? If you want to doubt my staement-- put your money where your opinions are and I am happy to bet the equivelent amount of the TV cost to categories with you that me statement is correct. Put your money where your mouth is.
In the meantime perhaps you could say something positive about the AMRS-- those that actually attended have.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

You don't get it-- I am quoting actual figures-- not made up -- not imagined but actual numbers. If you insist on putting dollar amounts in there-- my question to you is this-- show me the quote for that number for this year? You clearly have no understanding of what actual costs are-- and even more so when you have the temerity to question my numbers. An old saying but never more true-- a little knowldge is a dangerous thing. In your case what you know is clearly laughable. If you are so sure that you are right and that sort of deal is available-- why are they not on TV anymore? If you want to doubt my staement-- put your money where your opinions are and I am happy to bet the equivelent amount of the TV cost to categories with you that me statement is correct. Put your money where your mouth is.
In the meantime perhaps you could say something positive about the AMRS-- those that actually attended have.

I have attended AMRS meetings, and posted positively. I'm presently OS on holiday, but the 2006 televised race meetings were being repeated as I left, and speaking to the producer a few weeks ago, will be happening again this year at not a substantial increase in price.

Actual costs are not always reflective of actual situations. When competitors I know look at the entry fee according to the numbers I mentioned earlier and decide the entry fee is outlandish, they do not care what you describe as actual numbers. They see one dollar figure. They see another dollar figure, and decide on that basis. Race attendance is based on their capacity to pay for the incidentals and long term benefits are of little relevance.

Your arguement surely does have factual basis, but competitors I know do not care for the numbers as you see them. They want to race and race cost effectively. To the bulk of racers I know, who by the way, do not see themselves travelling to races interstate, or if they do then they need an incentive not offered by AMRS (eg the previous Bathurst Group N example), then the entry fee is too large. The fact that an AMRS meeting is televised nationally on Speedweek is not a drawcard.

While you may be correct on actual costs arguement, it is not persuasive to the racing community AMRS needs to attract. State level competitors simply are not interested in $500+ entry fees whether it is cost effective or not, whether it has TV or not. That big first up number is the stumbling block.

My intention is not to bag, merely to inform. Would you prefer me to lie as to competitors motivations?

And please, don't let us get into a 'who has more money than me' betting game, it does you discredit.

[Falcadore]

As an additional - racing vehicle numbers in Queensland are up. Why? Because the lower entry fees, and less stringent vehicle eligiblity standards presented by Queensland Raceway's AASA sanctioned Top Gear Classic and Top Gear Championship meetings.

Cheaper, simpler racing increased the number of cars.

It was that simple.

[inpitlane]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

In the meantime perhaps you could say something positive about the AMRS-- those that actually attended have.

Both of them.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

As an additional - racing vehicle numbers in Queensland are up. Why? Because the lower entry fees, and less stringent vehicle eligiblity standards presented by Queensland Raceway's AASA sanctioned Top Gear Classic and Top Gear Championship meetings.

Cheaper, simpler racing increased the number of cars.

It was that simple.

What is simple is your approach. No one is advocating higher cost as desirable- it is a fact of life. Your comparison of low level meeting misses the point. It is exactly those cost issues that the AMRS is seeking to avoid. You persist in relating your own or those you talk to to quote. Are you aware that the Cams GT entry and associated costs puts as much as $5400 per round out of the competitors pockets. Does that ring a bell?
Your comparison cost of QR meetings is flawed for many raesons-- if the track owners made it available to the AMRS at the same rate that they are charging themselves then the AMRS fees could be a lot lower. Did you think of that?
There are fundamental differences for a National series that has TV compared to club level motorsport. I am very familair with tracks and costs in
3 states so have seen and considered the issues you raise at length.

[slipstreamoz]

Long time reader ,1st time poster, this is the 1st topic that has motivated me to actually join and post, i have been involved as a driver in NSW for 15 years.My last 2 meetings have been AMRS,and have the following to comment-In no particular order.

1-TV at State level is $2000 per round? Ten years ago we were paying well over $3000 to get HQs on Speedweek.So i would be surprised if it could be obtained for $2000 in 2006 or 2007.Its more like $7500 in 2007,or $45000 per day thats why the state series are not shown these days.

2- AMRS is a National Series not State.And should be seen as a low cost National series not compared with any State level racing.Other National categories have massive series registration costs which the AMRS doe not.
Even HQs in the CAMs National Series has a $1000 fee,and that is paltry compared to others, as the HQs are not regonized by CAMs as a National Championship.

3- Where are $180-$285 fees available for State rounds?In 2006 in NSW State rounds were $350 (or $300 if paid early), this has risen to $380 in 2007.
For this you get about 40 laps, AMRS round 1 AMRS 2007 for $550 you got about 42 to 45 laps plus TV, or if you were in an HQ 74 laps........in my 15 years of Motorsport i think its great value.

4- Get the current Racer magazine and read the article on pages 20 -21 re - competitor costs.

5- One comment made mention of the fact that the AMRS is more important to participants than any one watching? That is what the series was aimed at all us people who overnite with rule changes our cars become worthless with no where to race...........Its not nice when overnight your car you have put so much time into reduces in value by 60 to 80%.

6- In regards to some of the classes-

-F4000(or its latest name) CAMS disgarded,as soon as the AMRS took it on board, CAMS thru it alifeline in early 2006.........to late.

-Classic Touring, the original rules(including some signage) were inovative,now CAMs have Touring Car Masters(3D) very similar.

-PTCC The AMRS version is much cheaper and relevant.

-Lotus series, another left with no where to play so AMRS takes them on board,now they can race in 12 hour and GTP.CAMs reacts again.

-HQ/Kingswoods-CAMs tried to get rid of the most popular class nearly 9 years ago,and have often stated they will never be part of a national meeting..........they join AMRS and now in 2007 CAMs have added them to the National series,although not as a full championship series(Think that required another $14000 fee or so).

I am in no way connected with the AMRS but have been more impressed in the 2 meetings i have competed in with them, it was cost effective and most importantly FUN, and for the first time ever actually had sponsors pay for me to race ,one even put up the money for the in car camera.As a club/state level racer it has opend up my eyes to what can be achieved with TV coverage.I agree interstate travel adds to the cost,but i recommend having ago when the AMRS is in your state at least.
Please be gentle as its my first post.